Jump to content
aberdeen-music
Sign in to follow this  
diarmaid

Scottish independence: Yes/No?

Recommended Posts

Having just finished my 4th year uni dissertation on Scottish independence, I was just curious as to peoples oppinions on the subject. Any diehard nationalists out there? Any with strong oppinions either way? Any with merely a 'meh, independence, who cares really' kind of attitude?

Just interested in peoples thoughts on it.

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
yes so the jocks can stop moaning and blaming the english all the time when things go wrong.

Yes, as I think it's about time the English ran their own country for a change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would vote "no" to counter a "yes" vote made for the wrong reasons - nationalism, to stop the English bastards stealing our oil, Mel Gibson etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a marvellous statement. Swap "Scots" for "Indians" and look in the mirror.

For the record, my mum is English and I support devolution but I'm still undecided over the necessity for/benefits of fullblown independence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would vote "no" to counter a "yes" vote made for the wrong reasons - nationalism, to stop the English bastards stealing our oil, Mel Gibson etc.

what about the right reasons though? scottish independence has very little to do with braveheart, that is an ideal which is encouraged as much by unionists to weaken the case for independence as by diehard nationalists.

my reasons for being in favour of independence are that independence would allow people in scotland to have a greater say on issues which directly affect the economy, such as fishing, farming, oil, immigration etc. scotland has every right to self-determination, it voted itself into the union due to the specific economic circumstances of the time and so should be able to remove itself from union in a different economic climate.

my belief in scottish independence was increased when we went to an illegal war which scotland didn't want, the british government approved billions of pounds to renew a nuclear missile system that scotland doesn't want and wants to increase nuclear power which scotland doesn't need.

we have some of the poorest areas in the uk and unique problems which aren't addressed in the uk parliament, or which even are directly disadvantaged by uk policy(immigration being one, where parts of scotland still have a declining population).

it's not cut and dry, there's a lot to be discussed and huge problems will have to be overcome were scotland to vote for independence but if there's the will we can do it and be successful. i certainly don't agree with all the reasons for independence, but at the end of the day i firmly believe scotland would be better off if it was able to speak for itself on a larger stage.

one thing i absolutely hate is the appropriation of the independence argument by bigots and idiots, it has nothing to do with being anti-english.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be completely honest, I think Salmond is the only genuine statesman we have (for better and for worse).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No. I've lost faith since the arc of insolvency became clear and Mr Salmond claimed spivs and speculators took HBOS down when in reality they were massively exposed to rollover risk. I'm also concerned at how some of the newer EU member states like Latvia have fared, since joining, and of course the looming sovereign debt crises in the Eurozone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd have to argue that Scotland is already an independent country and that our politicians are simply either too weak willed to stand up for themselves about it or too far up their own and Westminister's arses to see that they already have a clear and longstanding mandate to go it alone. :swearing:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No. I've lost faith since the arc of insolvency became clear and Mr Salmond claimed spivs and speculators took HBOS down when in reality they were massively exposed to rollover risk. I'm also concerned at how some of the newer EU member states like Latvia have fared, since joining, and of course the looming sovereign debt crises in the Eurozone.

I think it's fair to say that if Scotland had been an independent nation for the past couple of years then it would probably be now in a rather similar situation to that of Iceland.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wirelessly posted (LG-GC900/V10a Obigo/WAP2.0 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1)

No. Absolutely 100% not. I'll go into the reasons when I'm not posting from a phone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think it's fair to say that if Scotland had been an independent nation for the past couple of years then it would probably be now in a rather similar situation to that of Iceland.

Indeed, and instead we have the situation where two of our main clearing banks are owned by the British Government. It's going to be a nightmare sorting out which liabilities are Scotland's and what a fair share of the nation debt would be to take with us. Likely, an unfair deal for England/remnant of UK if we did go.

I still think we have too many tiers of government and representatives (MPs, MSPs, MEPs..) and something has to give in future but it ain't time, IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think it's fair to say that if Scotland had been an independent nation for the past couple of years then it would probably be now in a rather similar situation to that of Iceland.

Sweeping generalisation. Besides which, I don't see Iceland looking to join a union with Denmark.

It almost amuses me that Jim Murphy chose to insult the Irish, Icelandic and Norwegian nations by referring to them as an arc of insolvency. Catchy soundbite, but politically inept. Last time I checked Ireland weren't much for rejoining the UK either. Also his analysis is completely flawed, since Norway is one of the nations which has managed to avoid any real deep impact as a result of the financial crisis.

Scotland's banks still failed, even as part of the union, and it is simply rhetorical speculation as to whether there would or would not have been a recovery if Scotland were independent. What is without doubt is that we, in Scotland, would have the responsibility for regulating our financial sector, and for taking steps to recover from any mistakes or failures which occurred.

It would be utterly naive to assume that independence would mean no great challenges would ever arise, which might test the resolve of the government or the nation, but to say that we are incapable of facing challenges is a particularly small mentality.

I have always believed that Scotland should be independent. It is what led me to join the SNP.

People talk about a more globalised world. Yes, that's as may be, but most of the monolithic unions have long since splintered and disbanded, and we now have a world full of small, confident and independent nations.

To deny Scotland the right to seek similar status is undemocratic.

I will respect the will of the people when we have a referendum on independence. I say when, rather than if, because I think it will happen.

I am not afraid of the people having their say, and I don't see why any supposed democrat should be either, regardless of their political persuasions.

P.S - I know of plenty folk who are either members of "unionist" parties, or vote for them, who say they support Scottish Independence, so it isn't simply a case of only SNP supporters backing it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sweeping generalisation. Besides which, I don't see Iceland looking to join a union with Denmark.

It almost amuses me that Jim Murphy chose to insult the Irish, Icelandic and Norwegian nations by referring to them as an arc of insolvency. Catchy soundbite, but politically inept. Last time I checked Ireland weren't much for rejoining the UK either. Also his analysis is completely flawed, since Norway is one of the nations which has managed to avoid any real deep impact as a result of the financial crisis.

Scotland's banks still failed, even as part of the union, and it is simply rhetorical speculation as to whether there would or would not have been a recovery if Scotland were independent. What is without doubt is that we, in Scotland, would have the responsibility for regulating our financial sector, and for taking steps to recover from any mistakes or failures which occurred.

It would be utterly naive to assume that independence would mean no great challenges would ever arise, which might test the resolve of the government or the nation, but to say that we are incapable of facing challenges is a particularly small mentality.

I have always believed that Scotland should be independent. It is what led me to join the SNP.

People talk about a more globalised world. Yes, that's as may be, but most of the monolithic unions have long since splintered and disbanded, and we now have a world full of small, confident and independent nations.

To deny Scotland the right to seek similar status is undemocratic.

I will respect the will of the people when we have a referendum on independence. I say when, rather than if, because I think it will happen.

I am not afraid of the people having their say, and I don't see why any supposed democrat should be either, regardless of their political persuasions.

P.S - I know of plenty folk who are either members of "unionist" parties, or vote for them, who say they support Scottish Independence, so it isn't simply a case of only SNP supporters backing it.

Surely, that would depend on who is allowed to vote in the referendum??..... baring in mind that there are lots of english homeowners, that live here, especially central belt and west coast....not to mention, Poles, Ukrainians, et al....are all these to have the vote?, as I don't think they will really want Scottish Independence, as its not part of their culture or history!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Surely, that would depend on who is allowed to vote in the referendum??..... baring in mind that there are lots of english homeowners, that live here, especially central belt and west coast....not to mention, Poles, Ukrainians, et al....are all these to have the vote?, as I don't think they will really want Scottish Independence, as its not part of their culture or history!

Independence is not part of Polish or Ukrainian culture ant history?!?

And what makes you assume that every English person opposes Scottish independence?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would have thought that anyone on the Scottish electoral roll would be eligible to vote in any referendum.

I do have a friend who is English (in origin, and manner, but he's lived up here most of his life) who supports independence. If people put down roots here, then they care about the place. I know Scots who are more solidly unionist than my mate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Independence is not part of Polish or Ukrainian culture ant history?!?

And what makes you assume that every English person opposes Scottish independence?

1, .......... Thats NOT what I said!!!!!, I don't believe they are particularly interested in SCOTTISH Independence though!

2, ........ NO...I don't assume that either, but a lot are less likely to!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
care to expand on this?

Alex salmond is the only real politician representing scotland and hes corrupt, gordon brown, toiny blair both majorly corrupt, scots have destroyed the good name of scotland

Maybe the next few generations will be better but I wont hold my breath

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
what about the right reasons though? scottish independence has very little to do with braveheart, that is an ideal which is encouraged as much by unionists to weaken the case for independence as by diehard nationalists.

my reasons for being in favour of independence are that independence would allow people in scotland to have a greater say on issues which directly affect the economy, such as fishing, farming, oil, immigration etc. scotland has every right to self-determination, it voted itself into the union due to the specific economic circumstances of the time and so should be able to remove itself from union in a different economic climate.

my belief in scottish independence was increased when we went to an illegal war which scotland didn't want, the british government approved billions of pounds to renew a nuclear missile system that scotland doesn't want and wants to increase nuclear power which scotland doesn't need.

we have some of the poorest areas in the uk and unique problems which aren't addressed in the uk parliament, or which even are directly disadvantaged by uk policy(immigration being one, where parts of scotland still have a declining population).

it's not cut and dry, there's a lot to be discussed and huge problems will have to be overcome were scotland to vote for independence but if there's the will we can do it and be successful. i certainly don't agree with all the reasons for independence, but at the end of the day i firmly believe scotland would be better off if it was able to speak for itself on a larger stage.

one thing i absolutely hate is the appropriation of the independence argument by bigots and idiots, it has nothing to do with being anti-english.

I'm sure there are compelling political arguments for independence but I think a large proportion of "yes" votes will be made for romantic or anti-English reasons rather than an understanding of the real issues. (you need those people so don't knock them!)

You, a supporter of Scottish independence, have alluded to the huge problems that need to be overcome with Independence. My "no" vote would be made for "better the devil you know" reasons also.

I may read into it though, not like there's a referendum tomorrow....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alex salmond is the only real politician representing scotland and hes corrupt, gordon brown, toiny blair both majorly corrupt, scots have destroyed the good name of scotland

Maybe the next few generations will be better but I wont hold my breath

Oh dear. Unfortunately i assume that this person might have the ability to vote...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×