"To Pay or Not to Pay" to Play

[FatHand]

As a part time promoter I fully accept that it is my responsibility to make sure the bands get paid appropriately. If I agree to a price and don't get enough people through the door to cover costs, I haven't done enough work.

I also play in bands and expect the same treatment as above. Unless you agreed to play for nothing, if there not many people through the door, you should get the payment agreed. This is particularly important for travelling groups.

Any costs associated with hiring a venue, if that is the way it is being organised, should be taken up by the promoter and factored into the costs for running the night. Promoters should be on good terms with venues, in fact everyone should be on good terms and its win win all round.

Could write more but I think this is a case closed situation.

[Guest]

I have done pay to play in one form before when I was younger. I was naieve and just wanted to play at a gig with my mate and had no idea how to go about it. A certain promoter gave me a set amount of tickets to sell and it was very strongly implied that I should sell them all or there'd be some sort of repurcussion. I was like, 15? The more shows I played the more relaxed about the whole thing he got, number of tickets sold and so on, and when I see him now we still chat etc.

However, knowing what I know now I would not do it again. It actually added quite a lot to the pressure of playing my first ever gig and I dread to think of other kids still going through the same sort of thing now in Aberdeen..

[Old Gold]

It's cool that you're trying to get a Glasgow music website on the go, but I reckon immediately filling the board with Aberdonians from an established, identical forum - where topics like this have been discussed to death over the years - is a bit of a weird kicking off strategy.

[Lemonade]

Wirelessly posted (LG-GC900/V10a Obigo/WAP2.0 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1)

If a promoter asks me to sell tickets then I have no problem doing that, it's better for everyone if the venue is packed and I'll do my best to sell them. But paying for the tickets up front? Nope. I've never asked for a fee up front though, I'm happy with a split of the door money however big or small it might be. I don't mind playing for free if there aren't many people there, or if we're supporting a touring band who cost a lot. Or if it's for charidee darling.

[Guest Gladstone]

Go advertise else where.

start a discussion here. dont start one, then ask us to on your site.

cheap and tacky move,

You need to chill the fuck out. This guy is trying to get a bit of life in this new Glasgow forum. You should embrace that and discuss things on there as well as here. You might get chatting with someone from Glasgow who might help you get a gig down there or whatever.

Although, with your attitude you're not likely to make friends anywhere, are you?

[Fish out of water]

P2P was really bad a long time ago when I first moved to Glasgow and places like Fury Murry's (now a strip club fact fans) were legendary at it. I have played one or two of these things but this was at a time band admin was the domain of the drummer/manager and it was only when things started getting a bit heavy with the promoter the one and only time I played Fury's that I clicked onto what was going on and advised that said drummer/manager might wish to review the gig booking policy.

I can see both sides of this - a lot of acts show a stunning level of naivity in thinking that the promoter is there to solely promote and that the town should be plastered in A2's advertising them. Once you stop and think that say a venue costs upwards of hundred quid to hire, posters and their distribution might cost a couple of hundred and then you have to pay an engineer and whatever else, you start to sympathise (only a bit mind) with what some promoters go through. Hence the Promo's that stipulate you don't play another venue in town either side of your date with them. Ticket splits, etc.

A lot of the time we're talking about promoters that are just as small time as the band's they book so really its probably better that bypass the promoter entirely and just book the venue and promote it yourself and then, once the overheads are covered all the moolah is yours - providing you actually have an audience that turned up to the gig. I'd be willing to wager that the overwhelming majority of bands don't have an audience and aren't willing to do the sort of spadework required to run their own night. These are the same bands that generally think its ok to just "be good enough" and everything all will fall into place. This last scenario only ever works if you have personal connections in the right places.

At the end of the day, none of this stuff comes for free. Money has to come from somewhere. Maybe the promoter should get it up the arse - after all, if they were stupid enough to gamble their money organising a night where only the three sets of parents turned up. Maybe the bands should bend over the table as the promoter took a gamble on them and the gamble failed.

Fuck this, I'm never playing live again. All sounds like to much fucking hassle. At least it'll stop the arguments about gear sharing/who's on driving duties. That's a thread of its own.

[Christy]

The only time i would pay to play is if the gig was really worth it, like supporting ACDC or something. Overall though i think the whole thing is a crock of shite and bands shouldn't have to pay to get on a bill, as already mentioned if you dis-encourage bands to work with you, the promoter, then there is no point in you being in your job, without bands, then there is no need for a promoter/venue.

LOLwut?

Where did you pull that een out from?

[sonhenry]

Pay to play? Man, I know things are getting bad, and you might expect it in a really tight market like LA. But here?

Don't get me wrong, I love to play music. But if someone is making money off my hard work by selling beer and expecting me to pay for the honor? That is so incredibly twisted, fucked up and wrong it's beyond belief.

Pay to play? Screw that. Play for the door and a cut of the bar? Totally different conversation if you know you can draw bodies.

And thanks for the tip about the Glasgow forum, off to check it out-

[jon]

LOLwut?

Where did you pull that een out from?

To be fair, Biffy paid 10,000* to get the support slot on Weezer's UK tour a few years ago.

* allegedly

[Hog]

To be fair, Biffy paid 10,000* to get the support slot on Weezer's UK tour a few years ago.

* allegedly

Although that may have opened up new horizons for Biffy, it's pretty sad that they have to bribe their way to the top.

[Chris]

Although that may have opened up new horizons for Biffy, it's pretty sad that they have to bribe their way to the top.

I think it's quite normal at that level to buy onto tours, certainly there's a lot of stories about bands doing it.

[Guest Gladstone]

I'll be totally honest, if I had a spare 10,000, I'd pay to go on tour with a properly big band.

I'd love to have a spare 10,000

[Guest Bob Double Jack]

I've said it before and i'll say it again - a promoter should be promoting their gigs. The clue is in the name....it's completely unfair to expect a local support band to draw a certain amount of people before they get paid in order to deflect from the fact the promoter has put on a gig and either underestimated the interest in the headline act(s) or is shite at getting a crowd in.

exactly right. you should never be expected to pay to play anywhere. lot of pish.

become a covers band, the moneys pretty good (cue abuse!)

[Pierre Von Mondragon]

Not. Ever.

To Box, I would say that the stage at the front kills the vibe as a music venue, with randoms weaving about the place. At the back would be a vast improvement, I'm nae signing up to their forum to tell them this mind.