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annie stevenson

"To Pay or Not to Pay" to Play

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Just started a thread on the subject of "Pay to Play" on The Box Music Forum, if any musos/ punters/promoters wish to contribute to this , click onto the link below and have yer say. Be interested in hearing the thoughts on this from you folks in the North East.

BOX Glasgow Official Forum • Index page

You can get our opinions by starting the thread on Aberdeen-Music.com.

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Go advertise else where.

start a discussion here. dont start one, then ask us to on your site.

cheap and tacky move,

It is not my site,.

It is a fledgling Forum which if it gets legs may prove useful for bands and punters from other parts ..

I was only asking for some contributions to help get things started.

Its my opinion that the more music forums are encouraged the more all will benefit.

Aberdeen has a good forum, as does Dundee, to the best of my knowledge Glasgow doesnt.

Maybe we should just keep ourselves to ourselves in our own wee part of the country eh.

Personally I dont think most folks are as parochial as that.

Any one who wants to contribute is most welcome , those who dont , fair enough.

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Let's talk about it right here.

Bands should never be expected to pay to play.

Oh, hey, check it out - the debate is over.

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Let's talk about it right here.

Bands should never be expected to pay to play.

Oh, hey, check it out - the debate is over.

What constitutes Pay to play ? Does that include gigs were the bands are expected to sell the tickets ?

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What constitutes Pay to play ? Does that include gigs were the bands are expected to sell the tickets ?

Yes. Yes it does.

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Bit embarrassed by how rude people have been to someone representing a Glasgow forum. Share the musical wealth, folks.

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It is never a goot idea imo.

Without bands, promoters and venues are worthless. Concentrate on making your business profitable without trying to fleece the very people upon whom you rely

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Bit embarrassed by how rude people have been to someone representing a Glasgow forum. Share the musical wealth, folks.

Fuck you. He had a thread about it already where people were quite civil. Now he's just starting to post about every thread he starts on there on here without trying to contribute to anything on this forum. That's why people are getting annoyed.

Regarding pay to play, I don't see a problem with bands having tickets to sell, as long as they aren't expected to sell those tickets. That's the line.

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Is there any mileage in the argument put up by some Promoters that someone has to pay for the venue and the Equipment hire, soundman etc and that is usually covered by either asking the bands to pay up front which they would have to do anyway if they were putting it on themselves or by taking a whack off the ticket sales which usually leaves the band with only a small portion of the takings.

From the bands point of view this leaves them in the catch 22 situation that they can only play at venues or places where they can draw a decent crowd or the promoter will not be interested.

For most bands this severly restricts where they can play.

So whats the solution ?

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I've said it before and i'll say it again - a promoter should be promoting their gigs. The clue is in the name....it's completely unfair to expect a local support band to draw a certain amount of people before they get paid in order to deflect from the fact the promoter has put on a gig and either underestimated the interest in the headline act(s) or is shite at getting a crowd in.

I would rather play for nothing to at least some audience than have that shite hanging over me.

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which they would have to do anyway if they were putting it on themselves

Well in that case you'd be just as well putting the gig on yourself!

So whats the solution ?

See above. Also;

Gig swaps.

Reputable promoters.

A promoter can put on three popular acts and an unknown quantity from out of town without taking too much of an extra risk surely?

Aberdeen has never really had pay-to-play gigs and to be honest the very idea of it makes most musicians up here really angry.

I don't know how much the practice goes on in Glasgow these days, but where would the promoters be if all the bands just said, "well fuck that!"

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Pay to play comes from two things:

1. Lazy promotors/venues.

2. Greedy promotors/venues.

Usually it is a combination of both.

I will never pay to play.

I find it funny how many 'Battle of the Bands' gigs are pay to play as well. Not only does it show either/both of the 2 points I said above, but it makes it very pathetic as whoever brings the most mates will win as opposed to talent. So many stupid bands then do what they can to bring more mates (to win) and, through this, the lazy/greedy promotors/venues mentioned sit back laughing at the lack of effort coupled with increase in revenue.

:)

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I really would not have any respect for any band who partake of these pay-to-play malarkies.

The promoter knows the risk.

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Bands should never pay to play, it really is that simple.

Bands can certainly get hold of tickets for their gig and sell them, but as said above, they should never be expected to sell x amount of tickets. Promoters need to do what their job title suggests they do, and if they do, bands will almost always help out if they can. If you build up a relationship with a promoter, you're both more likely to help each other out.

Don't be a dick, but don't be dicked about.

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The counter argument always seems to be that bands should be helping promote the gigs by getting their mates along - of course a band should always try and get folk along if possible but shouldn't be punished if they don't have a suitable rent-a-crowd handy....

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Well in that case you'd be just as well putting the gig on yourself!

A promoter can put on three popular acts and an unknown quantity from out of town without taking too much of an extra risk surely?

Aberdeen has never really had pay-to-play gigs and to be honest the very idea of it makes most musicians up here really angry.

I don't know how much the practice goes on in Glasgow these days, but where would the promoters be if all the bands just said, "well fuck that!"

Good points. A few years back from what I can gather Glasgow had quite a bad reputation for pay to play and though it still exists Im not sure it is as prolific as it used to be. There may be an argument for saying that Glasgow maybe has too many venues which has the result of the live music scene spreading itself too thin.

This led to sparse attendences over more venues.

To many Promoters then went down this particular road to compensate for this.

I dont know though Id be interested to hear from any promoters.

I agree with you that ideally a venue should have at least a top drawing local act, wh headine, which gives the lesser known bands an audience to play to. This would also encourage more outside bands to get heard and if they are any good will start to become a draw in themselves and in time its a win win situation even for the promoter : )

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the point of the thread should be to encourage bands that are just starting out, which may not know any better not to go for pay to play gigs. and i think that should go for any sort of topic where discussion is not really necessary, ie there is only two possible responses to this topic, very black and white.

although things like this have probably been debated countless times on aberdeen music, i think our man from annie stevenson is just trying to get closer ties between the two forums, which i think is an excellent idea, although this thread seems to be forcing it a little.

nonetheless the box music forum is looking good, and i think a big cheers are in order for bringing it to our attention in the first place

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the point of the thread should be to encourage bands that are just starting out, which may not know any better not to go for pay to play gigs. and i think that should go for any sort of topic where discussion is not really necessary, ie there is only two possible responses to this topic, very black and white.

although things like this have probably been debated countless times on aberdeen music, i think our man from annie stevenson is just trying to get closer ties between the two forums, which i think is an excellent idea, although this thread seems to be forcing it a little.

nonetheless the box music forum is looking good, and i think a big cheers are in order for bringing it to our attention in the first place

Cheers mate, thats what I was trying to do. I can appreciate this topic is probably more relevant for a Glasgow Forum, thats why I chose to post it on there. I thought it would be a good idea to invite contributions from thid forum as I know there are some folks/bands from outside Glasgow who would appreciate access to a Forum like this for Glasgow.

Having been accused of all manner of skull duggery for doing this, it maybe wasnt such a good idea after all.

I'll Put it down to experience.

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I play for free

if someone gives us money im gratefull, im not doing this for money i do it because i enjoy it

Id never pay money for me and or my bands to play end of

although paying for rehersal space doesn't count haha that can become quite dear

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Wirelessly posted (LG-GC900/V10a Obigo/WAP2.0 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1)

I've never paid to play in my life and I never would. If any promoter asked me to I'd tell them to shove their gig up their arse. I get messages on myspace all the time from promoters in Glasgow offering us gigs down there and they are all pay to play. Suffice to say I've never taken them up on it. I thought it was pretty normal down there.

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