Cloud Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Along similar-ish moral/ethical lines, thoughts on this?Free Gary McKinnon - or at least try him in the UKThey should tell the USA to piss off until a fair extradition treaty is in place. Apart from that, I'm struggling to see what juristriction the Americans have - the "crime" was committed on UK soil. I don't believe he has mental problems either - he knew fine well what he was doing, but the reaction of the Americans has been absolutely ridiculous. Likewise with the NatWest Three - America is merely overstepping her authority and she needs to be told where the line is.I meant I don't think there are any good points about this. I don't have all the evidence at hand to make an informed decision - it doesn't sound like the Chinese did either. Perhaps you can provide it? The only evidence has been kept secret, apart from the publicly available information such as him threatening quite a lot of people in Poland when he didn't get his own way and threatening to harm his Polish wife. As I said - his background is hardly squeaky clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest droid Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 As a cure for mental illness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkaline Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 No I'm not. That is purely my view and not really into arguing when I know what I've seen and experienced. I'm going to brush over your patronising comment about my knowledge of how drugs work.And i have my view based on my experiences.By not answering it? That just makes me think you don't know how they work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkaline Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 This is a ridiculous statement."Hello, Mr councillor? Why did you let that sad man run away with those naughty boys?"Why? Local Council is largely responsible for the care of Mentally ill people in the UK. It's the sort of thing that people lose their jobs over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oxbow lake Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 christ, this website seems to encourage a hell of a lot of arguing.anyway, i have first hand of living with this (as i'm sure others do) and other vulnerable people and of course they can be disillusioned and some can be easily led astray without fully understanding the implications of their actions.China has a corrupt government based on a mixture of (the cruel??) elements of communism and capitalism, which ever suits their agenda to control their people. endless amounts of criminals (some actual lots not) are executed each year.and then see what they've done in tibet. so no surprise here.in essence though so much mental health and such issues come about due to (for one example) a lack of supporting community and understanding of your role in the community. surely this site is an example of a good musical community which may help a bit?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest droid Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 surely this site is an example of a good musical community which may help a bit??Dude totally agree with everything you said apart from this......are you looking at the same forum as me?Aberdeen music forum tends to be a breeding ground nastiness,people tend to not want to help each other on here,never mind help people in our community who really need it. IMO of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim.. Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Is there anyway capitol punishment could not be considering inhumane?I remember Michael Portaloo did a documentary about humane ways to kill the condemned and the best way (if I remember correctly) was to put them in a compression chamber, take them to a ridicilous pressure and then decompress until they feel pleasantly giddy and pass-out. Apparently a nice way to go. I'm sure he said something about some dude managing to replicate the effect using some kind of gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Stu Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 I don't think Chinese doctors are required to take the Hippocratic oath so they may actually be more humane in carrying out execution by lethal injection than, say, the US.I just googled that, mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funky_peanut Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 What it appears to be is China flexing it's International Muscle so to speak, a sort of " what you going to do about it?" sort of posture.China's legal is system ss designed to be a zero tolerant as possible and it has to be. If you think about it.. it's the last Communist ( and i use that term loosely) superpower. and with a population continually exposed to Western Commercialsm and ideals it's just a powder keg of discontent.The Chinese governent fears another Tianamen square so they are going to do what they can to prevent such acts from happening or recurring again. Now, just picture that they treated this poor man with an obivious disability other than they would trea t their own citizens...would just be adding fuel to the fire.Just my views on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TelecasterSam Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 What it appears to be is China flexing it's International Muscle so to speak, a sort of " what you going to do about it?" sort of posture.China's legal is system ss designed to be a zero tolerant as possible and it has to be. If you think about it.. it's the last Communist ( and i use that term loosely) superpower. and with a population continually exposed to Western Commercialsm and ideals it's just a powder keg of discontent.The Chinese governent fears another Tianamen square so they are going to do what they can to prevent such acts from happening or recurring again. Now, just picture that they treated this poor man with an obivious disability other than they would trea t their own citizens...would just be adding fuel to the fire.Just my views on itWhile I might actually agree with your sentiments.... just what has an Asian guy (with family in UK) coming from Poland (Homeless) whos trying to smuggle 4kgs of Heroin into China...... got to do with China's internal unrest??He was a drug smuggler...... simple factApparently he lived in Poland with a second wife (I believe) albeit homeless, and was suckered into smuggling drugs for some Polak drugs gang....he probably wanted a quick fix of money... THATS why he took the risk....His medical records indicated NO previous mental health issues, and as has been said. he was able enough to run a London Taxi firm as its manager????I don't agree with the execution.... but I think he should have been banged up for life !!What the hell did he expect...... I had very little sympathy for him, although I DO feel sad for his family back here....Just my views also.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funky_peanut Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Sneaky Bastard....Manager you say?I was speculating on non-preferential treatment of non-chinese citizens... that's what it has to do with china's internal issues.. that's why they executed him to show that no one was above the law regardless of their nationality... That's why they went ahead with the execution. I'm addressing peoples shock at why he was executed for hi crime and giving an explaination as to why, albeit a bit overboard with the background. A simple " Because it's the fucking law over there and this is the punishment" would of perhaps sufficed?.........score.Hopefully that clear up my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog Posted January 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 While I might actually agree with your sentiments.... just what has an Asian guy (with family in UK) coming from Poland (Homeless) whos trying to smuggle 4kgs of Heroin into China...... got to do with China's internal unrest??He was a drug smuggler...... simple factApparently he lived in Poland with a second wife (I believe) albeit homeless, and was suckered into smuggling drugs for some Polak drugs gang....he probably wanted a quick fix of money... THATS why he took the risk....His medical records indicated NO previous mental health issues, and as has been said. he was able enough to run a London Taxi firm as its manager????I don't agree with the execution.... but I think he should have been banged up for life !!What the hell did he expect...... I had very little sympathy for him, although I DO feel sad for his family back here....Just my views also.... Apparently his family have evidence of his mental illness. They have a copy of a song he recorded in china because he wanted to be a popstar.The "he could run a business" arguement shows the complete lack of knowledge about Bipolar Disorder. You can function normally for long periods of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Apparently his family have evidence of his mental illness. They have a copy of a song he recorded in china because he wanted to be a popstar.They allegedly have evidence, but it hasn't been forthcoming, nor does his medical file have any evidence of his condition. This is why the whole thing is interesting - you can't actually blame China for not considering it if there was no prior medical evidence of his condition. My personal feeling is that the mental illness claim was invented for public relatons reasons - no-one's going to feel sorry for some idiot who tried to take 4kg of heroin into China, but they'll feel sorry for him if he had mental health problems. The "he could run a business" arguement shows the complete lack of knowledge about Bipolar Disorder. You can function normally for long periods of time.I'm not buying the Bipolar claim at all - it seems more likely that he was simply naive and gullible. Probably the best way to describe him is as someone out of touch with reality - his actions in Poland certainly show this. Whether or not that's enough to diagnose mental illness is horribly subjective - is someone who doesn't conform to society's expectations mentally ill?Having said this - his execution is almost certainly a wakeup call to anyone thinking about smuggling drugs in that part of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 I'm pretty sure that there is a debate over whether bipolar disorder exists as a definable condition or not, and there's rather an interesting article (actually, blog) at Does Bipolar Disorder Exist? pasadena therapist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest droid Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 some useful info here. Bipolar Disorder (manic depression) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TelecasterSam Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 er.... this is all supposing he had it in the first place.....which I think was a desperate attempt of his family here in the UK to forestall his execution, by trying to gain a sympathy vote......Question: why the hell was he living "homeless" in Poland, if he had a mental disorder, and his family, and better mental health care, could have been provided in the UK, as opposed to Poland?seems to me that everybody should leave the Bipolar disorder out of the equation...as there was NO evidence of it, in his medical records....unless his family can officially provide it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest droid Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 I think the only people in a position to comment on whether he did or did not have it,are his g.p./psychiatrist or his family.Not the media or any one else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TelecasterSam Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 If his GP and/or Psychiatrist had seen him regarding Bipolar, it would have been in his medical records.........o_O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest droid Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 If his GP and/or Psychiatrist had seen him regarding Bipolar, it would have been in his medical records.........o_ODr Peter Schaapveld, Consultant Clinical and Forensic Psychologist: The evidence clearly points to the fact that Mr Shaikh was and/or is suffering from a severe mental disorder. It likely that he became involved with these drug smugglers entirely for delusional reasons. It is also likely that these professional drug smugglers knew he was vulnerable and intellectually compromise by virtue of mental disorder and knew he could be manipulated to act illegally for them. He thus should be as a matter of urgency assessed by a mental health professional and treated accordingly" Manic depression can develop slowly over a period of time,so his condition may not have been diagnosed in the past.Have a look at the link i posted today...very interesting.Jaco Pastorius bi polar developed over years,it took very erratic behaviour before Peter Erskine's father persuaded him to seek help.....then look what happened to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyboy Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Again, the courts in China should have allowed a medical evaluation, which they did not. That would have saved him if he was indeed mentally ill, and vindicated the Chinese state if he was not. Of course that is assuming it would carried out competently, which is a pretty big fucking stretch for China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest droid Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Again, the courts in China should have allowed a medical evaluation, which they did not. That would have saved him if he was indeed mentally ill, and vindicated the Chinese state if he was not. Of course that is assuming it would carried out competently, which is a pretty big fucking stretch for China.Yeah man,they blocked Dr Peter Schaapveld from evaluating him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog Posted January 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 I think the only people in a position to comment on whether he did or did not have it,are his g.p./psychiatrist or his family.Not the media or any one else.You nailed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog Posted January 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Reprieve—NEW EVIDENCE emerges in the Akmal Shaikh case showing his illness; Reprieve makes new application to the Chinese authorities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderer Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Different countries have different laws and we must respect that. In an ideal world the law would be international but it is not and some decisions will drive other countries round the bend, abdul basset elf megraxi anyone?He broke the law and was dealt with and processed by the Chinese legal system which has operated this way for years. One less major drug dealer means a slightly better world.I support Chinas decision on this matter. However, I am not in support of the death penalty in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest droid Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 I support Chinas decision on this matter. However, I am not in support of the death penalty in the UK.So it's ok for China to execute someone,but it's not if the UK did it?That doesn't make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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