What next?

[Guest Sundaram]

It appears to me that music has reached a conclusion, that it has nowhere left to go, no new avenues to search. It is mearly referencing it's self and it's past, but without anything new being added!

I'm off the view that there hasn't really been any major steps forward since the late 1960's and early to mid 1970's. The only 'new' -- form, perhaps, has been 'Dance' music in all it's various genres and sub genres!

Whats your thoughts on the future of music?

[bryn]

havn't been any major steps since the 70s??? not so sure about that. The way I see it, in the past ten years, being good an instrument has not been a neccessity, but its coming back around. People go on about loads of bands today being experimental blah blah, all these sub genres blah blah - all does nothing for me, right now, rock music is pathetically weak.

Im obviously biased but I think my band is pretty different for being just a traditional rock line up, guitar bass drums, but i wont go into that!

The way forward I think is to go back to basics and learn to play instruments. Only when fully capable are people in the position to develope, what guitarists have there been as of late that have totally awe-inspiring technique (not necessarily speed) or really special 'style'?

Musical ability has been forgotten about but surely it will re-surface as people make realisations such as this thread, or just decide that its really not cool to be shit at guitar any more.

So i conclude that the way forward begins with instrument ability and musical education, but also I think its important to listen to lots of music, funnily enough I find the best is from back in the day

[spellchecker]

as long as you continue to find music that makes hair stand on the back of your neck, your eyes water and your smile broaden, music is alive and well. just now i'm listening to boys for pele by tori amos, and i really, really love it. is anything new or innovative? it is compared to what i've listening to for the past few years. but compared to her peers or predecessors?

this recent discussion about innovation is deeply personal and subjective in my opinion. everyone knows when they've written a good song, whether it's new and innovative or not. and that's something that people latch onto - a good song. i disagree with the notion that you have to be a great instrumentalist to write good songs or be innovative. but then i would say that, being a Jack Average of all trades.

all you need in order to be innovative is a passion for music, some emotion and personal sentiment and a lighter for the rulebook. not that it's too relevant, but if i was all alone on a desert island with loads of instruments and a nice little wooden dat-recorder, i wouldn't stop making music just because no-one was going to listen to it. hmm, that really wasn't relevant, i just wanted to say it.

[Guest Sundaram]

If there can be no more innovation, music still functions as an emotional, political, entertainment etc thing!?

I just cant see what else can be done that hasn't been done before!

[bryn]

I feel that the situation now is so bleak, something more than a songwriter is required if you get my drift. The Beatles wouldn't go down now as well as they did 50 years ago. To be innovative now would require the musician to be pretty special, above the average songwriter, have a lot of creativity / ear / feel for music and in my opinion - the skill to be able to project this thought into life.

Passion for music was mentioned. I totally agree with this, musicians need to be dedicated and in love with music, a lot of recent music seems uninspired and half arsed.

[Guest Stripey]

I just cant see what else can be done that hasn't been done before!

Perhaps bach and mozart thought the same...I think ultimately music has always been the same thing, only humans have developed ways of producing new sounds to use to create with, e.g electric guitars, synthesizers, samplers. You could compare it to the evolution of painting. We started off with bits of charcoal or whatever, we learned how to use pigments, we developed brushes and then printing and photography and digital image manipulation. All of these things allowed us to explore new avenues of expressiveness, but at the end of the day its all still the same thing...

Is there still innovation in the art world? Are there revolutionary artists the equivalent of the people who set trends in the art world through the last few centuries?

Does this mean our culture is reaching its apex and the point of saturation, where nothing new can be done? Will there be a new renaissance? Or will we crumble like rome did?

I really don't know.

[Guest Sundaram]

Perhaps bach and mozart thought the same...I think ultimately music has always been the same thing' date=' only humans have developed ways of producing new sounds to use to create with, e.g electric guitars, synthesizers, samplers. You could compare it to the evolution of painting. We started off with bits of charcoal or whatever, we learned how to use pigments, we developed brushes and then printing and photography and digital image manipulation. All of these things allowed us to explore new avenues of expressiveness, but at the end of the day its all still the same thing...

Is there still innovation in the art world? Are there revolutionary artists the equivalent of the people who set trends in the art world through the last few centuries?

Does this mean our culture is reaching its apex and the point of saturation, where nothing new can be done? Will there be a new renaissance? Or will we crumble like rome did?

I really don't know.[/quote']

I am beginning to think that, yes, culture is reaching or already has reached an apex/point of saturation! I do see your point about sound, but in the same way that music only has so many variations, perhpas it's the same with sound!

[bryn]

If you think about the 'would mozart and beethoven thought the same' the answer is yes they possibly did, but the change came about in the types of instruments that werent being used previously or in some cases hadn't even been discovered.

Maybe technology is the key to future musical development, but then can you question, where can technology go next?

Personally I find it hard to believe that with the number of things possible with merely a guitar multiplied with the number of things possible with a bass and drumkit, assuming that the players can play, there must be thousands of concepts and ideas left unturned.

[Guest Sundaram]

If you think about the 'would mozart and beethoven thought the same' the answer is yes they possibly did' date=' but the change came about in the types of instruments that werent being used previously or in some cases hadn't even been discovered.

[u']Maybe technology is the key to future musical development, but then can you question, where can technology go next?

Personally I find it hard to believe that with the number of things possible with merely a guitar multiplied with the number of things possible with a bass and drumkit, assuming that the players can play, there must be thousands of concepts and ideas left unturned.

Unless they are used as triggers for other sounds, I disagree about guitar, bass and drums(using their natural sounds) having any new avenues to explore.

[Guest RomanChoke]

music can never reach a conclusion. Its not possible. Try listening to some music by lightning bolt if you need something new.

[Guest Sundaram]

music can never reach a conclusion. Its not possible. Try listening to some music by lightning bolt if you need something new.

I'm 99% sure that they wont be doing anything that hasn't been done before... not saying they wont be ace though!

[Guest RomanChoke]

I dont think anyone else has the guts to produce music like the Lightning Bolt to be honest

[Guest The Reverend Z. Munch]

Rock music reached its nadir a long time ago, they play rock n roll in supermarkets, thats as advanced rock music got...

Its all about packaging a nice flashy image or finding a gimmick to market and to milk that gimmick or image it to the point of calcification until its street cred status becomes as fashionable as fucking bell bottoms or re-runs of Love Thy Neighbour and then is chucked out onto the corpse-heap of music history.

But the worst thing is that the need to work hard as a band has gone, people just start bands in the hope that they'll get instant success and exposure straight off the bat by playing a certain type of music thats fashionable right now with the kiddies, and then they find once that trendy music ain't as trendy anymore, they find themselves stuck in a rut cos their talents only stretched as far as to copy or replicate some other band's style.

The problem with music now is that its style over content, in such a big big way. If you got a fucking eyebrow piercing and wear black nail varnish and look like the bulimic offspring of Twiggy Ramirez, you're a rock music pioneer!

Or if you have long hair, like to wear spandex jumpsuits and love Iron Maiden and Metallica and Slayer, you're a retro but ironic genius!

Rock music ain't reached an apex or a summit or a plateau, it just took a headfirst dive off a fucking cliff a long time ago.

[ragudave]

It appears to me that music has reached a conclusion' date=' that it has nowhere left to go, no new avenues to search. It is mearly referencing it's self and it's past, but without anything new being added!

I'm off the view that there hasn't really been any major steps forward since the late 1960's and early to mid 1970's. The only 'new' -- form, perhaps, has been 'Dance' music in all it's various genres and sub genres!

Whats your thoughts on the future of music?[/quote']

You could argue that its not what music you have, but what you do with it.

e.g.

1) Dub was born as a cheap way of doing a B side in the early 1970s and then became a genre of its own, and then influenced most forms of dance music / hip hop / trip hop etc

2) Artists like DJ Shadow / DJ Rupture amongst others do not generally make original tracks but remix and rearrange other tracks and musical snippets onto their own albums creating something better.

3) Minimalism was not new music. It was just sounds or pieces of music repeated or looped in a certain fashion. Minimalism influenced krautrock (see E2 E4), post rock and lots of dance music.

If you take that point of view there should be a positive future for music. On the other hand trying to forecast what is going to happen to music is pretty much impossible. Could anyone in the 1970s have forecast jungle / gabba / DJ Shadow / alt country or someone in the 1950s punk, house music / techno / disco / reggae ? Probably not I would imagine...

Will everything go low fi or will pre recorded purchased music disappear in the near future - who knows ?

Dave

[Alan Cynic]

Will everything go low fi or will pre recorded purchased music disappear in the near future - who knows ?

Dave

I'm glad Dave came in with a hopeful approach....I was beginning to get a bit depressed!

Maybe people will be having friends round in small groups, and playing their own, weird compositions to each other - taking active roles in music making instead of passively letting it wash over them. Sort of an updated version of the Victorian "Soiree Musicale".

Wishful thinking, I know..............

_______________________________________________________________________

Kitchen Cynics.......................................pass the port, Munch, old fellow!

[ragudave]

I'm glad Dave came in with a hopeful approach....I was beginning to get a bit depressed!

Maybe people will be having friends round in small groups' date=' and playing their own, weird compositions to each other - taking active roles in music making instead of passively letting it wash over them. Sort of an updated version of the Victorian "Soiree Musicale".

Wishful thinking, I know..............

_______________________________________________________________________

Kitchen Cynics.......................................pass the port, Munch, old fellow![/quote']

Not that wishful if you think about the Damo Suzuki model of touring ? Or open mike nights ?

[Frosty Jack]

I just cant see what else can be done that hasn't been done before!

But that's the point...

If everyone could see what the next step is' date=' then everyone would be doing it. Innovation is, by definition, producing something that no-one else has thought of before, therefore it makes sense that you can't see what the future will be. Someone will soon enough. It might be me, it might be you, or it might be George Pewty from Crawley W.Sussex. Who knows? No-one yet, that's the point. Have faith, you can't run out of music.

btw, my money's on George, he's a lunatic.

[Guest Sundaram]

But that's the point...

If everyone could see what the next step is' date=' then everyone would be doing it. Innovation is, by definition, producing something that no-one else has thought of before, therefore it makes sense that you can't see what the future will be. Someone will soon enough. It might be me, it might be you, or it might be George Pewty from Crawley W.Sussex. Who knows? No-one yet, that's the point. Have faith, you can't run out of music.

btw, my money's on George, he's a lunatic.

Yes, very true Mr Jack!

[Guest Stripey]

2) Artists like DJ Shadow / DJ Rupture amongst others do not generally make original tracks but remix and rearrange other tracks and musical snippets onto their own albums creating something better.

That's pretty misleading really. They do make original tracks, it's not just slotting together a bunch of loops or remixing. Breakbeat/Sampler driven genres are much maligned and misunderstood by a lot of people because of that misconception. Heaps of breakbeat/triphop artists work with session musicians and vocalists. The DJ Krush/Toshinori Kondo album is a perfect example of this.

[Mouse]

To be honest, I can't think of anything else to change music drastically right now. It better hurry though because most music these days is just shite. Half the stuff I listen to was made before I was born!

[Guest lime ruined my life]

surely richard d james album was a big inovation around 1994 was it? or 96?

and dj shadow around the same time was a new form in music

having said that the turntablism movement is based on a sturdy background of "old" music, samples feature heavily from all genres.

all music relies on music that went before it to survive, for some sort of structure. new genres are developed from whats going on around at the time, they dont just spring up out of no where.

new forms of music seem to come around when a "genius" breaks through. which holds true of all sorts of music. (take the vienese classicism movement, haydn mozart etc all being around at the same time -(guess who does history of music))

new forms of music also seem to be encouraged by advances in musical technology (samplers and synths being the main advances of recent years, aswel as midi making things all a bit more compatable and computers bringing it all together in one handy package)

theres still room left.

if everyone was a genius then itd make music a bit less special. we just have to wait. for now im content to listen to all the music thats already been made, who needs new music when theres plenty of old stuff still elft to listen to.

[ragudave]

That's pretty misleading really. They do make original tracks' date=' it's not just slotting together a bunch of loops or remixing. Breakbeat/Sampler driven genres are much maligned and misunderstood by a lot of people because of that misconception. Heaps of breakbeat/triphop artists work with session musicians and vocalists. The DJ Krush/Toshinori Kondo album is a perfect example of this.[/quote']

Well perhaps they do make original tracks on some albums but the 3 DJ Rupture albums I have consist of tracks done by other people* mixed and changed by Rupture. My point was that innovation is about what you do with existing music as well than just writing new material**. Dont know anything about DJ Krush / TK album so I couldnt comment...

Dave

* okay I suppose Nettle (Rupture's side project) makes original music to be fair

** think about U Roy / I Roy and how they transformed samey Rocksteady tunes into great toasting tunes - would we have had hip hop / dancehall etc without these toasters ?