Bank Charges

[Alkaline]

In my case though, paying using my debit card, it would have been immensley beneficial if the bank just prevented me spending money I didn't have.

Thanks to Adam for articulating my argument better than I could be bothered doing too. Dave, I guess we should just agree to disagree on this one.

Yes, surely the transaction being refused would be a better way forward. Yes, you may be embarrassed at the till but better that than a hefty charge instead.

Why don't banks refuse a transaction when there is insufficient funds?

[framheim]

Yes, surely the transaction being refused would be a better way forward. Yes, you may be embarrassed at the till but better that than a hefty charge instead.

Why don't banks refuse a transaction when there is insufficient funds?

i'm not sure that it's the banks fault. i'm not entirely sure how this works, so this could be wrong but if the shops till doesn't communicate with the bank at the time of the transaction there's not much the bank can do about it, the fact that the debit card is also a guarantee card means that you're giving the retailer a guarantee that the funds are in your account and the payment will have to go through once the retailer processes it.

some retailers can take a long time to process these transactions, such as the co-op on skye who took 5 days to process a transaction i did on my card there. most retailers will check your account for funds straight away and your card will be declined if there aren't enough funds.

i'm not sure if this is a case of the retailers tills not communicating at the time of the transaction, or if they do but the transactions just take a few days to process, by which point you may have withdrawn funds for something else leaving you with no money. anyone know how the card transactions are processed by retailers?

and while you guys are happy enough with your card being declined, others are not. people will complain about banks no matter what they do.

[aberdoom.com]

I guess this is true.

On the subject of banks and credit cards and such, it's far far too easy for an 18 year old with no clue as to how to manage their money (ie. me six years ago) to get into pretty serious problems. The fact bank charges have traditionally been so high means it's a spiral that can be extremely difficult for individuals to get out of.

There should be some serious education about the consequences of poor money management somewhere along the line.

There is going to be education on it shortly, i think the main problem seems to come from the handing over cards instead of money. Its like having a pile nuggets to pay for things, with cash you can see it disappearing with cards it is harder to comprehend

Credit crunch on the curriculum - Scotsman.com News

Scottish pupils to get 'credit crunch' lessons - Telegraph

[Hog]

I'm not sure why you can't sign up to the option of receiving a declined transaction if you have insufficient funds in your account.

[soundian]

I'm not sure why you can't sign up to the option of receiving a declined transaction if you have insufficient funds in your account.

Most bricks-and-mortar shops use offline (or credit) debit transactions, i.e. they don't communicate with the bank at the time of the transaction (except to authorise the PIN I would imagine). This means your card effectively has to guarantee that the bank will pay the retailer, regardless of how much money you actually have. It is, when used in this way, just like a cheque.

I think this is where most people fail with debit cards. They (like I did until I used the mighty googletron) think it works like a glorified hole-in-the-wall card. Treat it like a cheque book and you won't go far wrong.

[Bigsby]

I'm not sure why you can't sign up to the option of receiving a declined transaction if you have insufficient funds in your account.

Because that would make less money for the banks.

Going back to the OP, I went into my local branch of HBOS yesterday with a view to switching to the Reward account in time for November and therefore to pick up my free 5.

Two members of staff there but neither with the authority to change my account. Manager with authority had an appointment soon.

Was told I could upgrade online. Went online to discover that you can't upgrade online to the Reward account which gives you a free fiver every month, only to the Ultimate Reward account which COSTS you 12.50 every month. Bunch of feckers.

[Le Stu]

Because that would make less money for the banks.

Going back to the OP, I went into my local branch of HBOS yesterday with a view to switching to the Reward account in time for November and therefore to pick up my free 5.

Two members of staff there but neither with the authority to change my account. Manager with authority had an appointment soon.

Was told I could upgrade online. Went online to discover that you can't upgrade online to the Reward account which gives you a free fiver every month, only to the Ultimate Reward account which COSTS you 12.50 every month. Bunch of feckers.

That's awesome. When I got my bullionvault account, they gave me a free gram of gold, and despite monthly fees for storage and insurance, I'm still way up in terms of sterling compared to the interest I would have got had I kept my money in a desposit account.

I'm turning libertarian, I'm turning libertarian, I really think so.

[Frosty Jack]

When I got my bullionvault account, they gave me a free gram of gold

"And does Mr Stu have his key?"

[Le Stu]

"And does Mr Stu have his key?"

He does. It's a magic key that initiates a SWIFT transfer back to his bank account. However, between the Viamat vault in Zurich and a bank account in England, there is a dangerous and evil space called the Lloyds Banking Group Pooled Holding Account.

I pray to the four winds whenever I liquidate hard assets, and you?

[Scootray]

Because the banks wouldn't be able to nail you for it.

EDIT: didn't realise what apge we were on, so this might bring my comment into context...

I'm not sure why you can't sign up to the option of receiving a declined transaction if you have insufficient funds in your account.

[framheim]

Because the banks wouldn't be able to nail you for it.

EDIT: didn't realise what apge we were on, so this might bring my comment into context...

or perhaps, as myself and soundian have pointed out, it's because not all retailers machines communicate with the bank at the time of transaction. when they do the transaction will be declined if you don't have enough money in your account to cover the cost otherwise you are guaranteeing the payment with your debit card for when the retailer processes the transaction.

[Hog]

Most bricks-and-mortar shops use offline (or credit) debit transactions, i.e. they don't communicate with the bank at the time of the transaction (except to authorise the PIN I would imagine). This means your card effectively has to guarantee that the bank will pay the retailer, regardless of how much money you actually have. It is, when used in this way, just like a cheque.

I think this is where most people fail with debit cards. They (like I did until I used the mighty googletron) think it works like a glorified hole-in-the-wall card. Treat it like a cheque book and you won't go far wrong.

I know and appreciate that Ian but it's not like the banks don't have the technology to administer a system denying negative equity accounts.

[Bigsby]

or perhaps, as myself and soundian have pointed out, it's because not all retailers machines communicate with the bank at the time of transaction. when they do the transaction will be declined if you don't have enough money in your account to cover the cost otherwise you are guaranteeing the payment with your debit card for when the retailer processes the transaction.

How come nobody ever seems to go over their credit card limit then? You just get refused.

[soundian]

I know and appreciate that Ian but it's not like the banks don't have the technology to administer a system denying negative equity accounts.

Having the technology and having viable technology are sometimes different things. Because there are a huge amount of disparate payment points in Britain the only way to get the info to and from the retailers is over the internet. Shoving that amount of sensitive info over the internet in real-time and keeping it secure is a pretty big challenge if you ask me.

Anyway, the point is how debit cards work, not how they should work or how we think they work. Now everyone reading this thread knows how they work there's no excuse for being in a position for the banks to rip you off.

Personally I only use my debit card for online purchases so I'm never in the position to go into the red and, after finding out how debit cards work, I think I'll stick to that policy.

[framheim]

How come nobody ever seems to go over their credit card limit then? You just get refused.

different type of payment i guess. a credit card has no guarantee facility unlike a debit card so retailers have to process that payment 'live' as it were. i don't know the full ins and outs of how retailers process payments though, i'm sure if you really wanted to know you could look it up online somewhere. but that might spoil your banks are evil and it's all their fault argument.

[Bigsby]

different type of payment i guess. a credit card has no guarantee facility unlike a debit card so retailers have to process that payment 'live' as it were. i don't know the full ins and outs of how retailers process payments though, i'm sure if you really wanted to know you could look it up online somewhere. but that might spoil your banks are evil and it's all their fault argument.

Um, no, not really, don't think I've said anything about the banks being evil, just that these excessive charges are a pile of shite. And seeing that you've been knowledgable on these matters thus far I thought it was reasonable to put the question to you.

Seems rather convienient that they have different systems in place for credit and debit cards, thus enabling them to maintain their excessive charges.

[soundian]

Seems rather convienient that they have different systems in place for credit and debit cards, thus enabling them to maintain their excessive charges.

And they've even called them different names so we won't get confused. Damn them!

[Nev]

This seems as good a place as any to post this:

Just checked my latest credit card statement for a card I paid off last month. Between the statement coming out and me making my payment, a purchase I'd made generated a wee bit of interest, 58p. Not a problem, I can afford to pay off 58 pence.

Sadly, my account requires a minimum payment of 1, and won't let me pay more than 58p onto the card, so I'm either going to have to make a purchase on the card (which I've since shredded so don't have the security code for) and pay the whole lot off, or... well, I dunno. Face a late fee for not paying an amount they won't let me pay? Madness!

[Bigsby]

You can overpay, make a payment of 1.

[Adam Easy Wishes]

You can overpay, make a payment of 1.

And then close your account, receiving a cheque for 42 pence.

[Guest Gladstone]

And then close your account, receiving a cheque for 42 pence.

They won't do this - well my bank wouldn't anyway.

I eventually paid off a credit card a few years ago, with a credit balance (can't even remember why I had credit) of less than 1.

It gained interest over a few years, and was sitting at 91p.

I eventually phoned them a month or two ago to cancel the account completely - I hadn't had the actual card for years, and it was just an extra bit of paper coming in the post every now and again that I didn't need.

Because it had been so long, I didn't know any of the security passwords or anything for dealing with it over the phone. Well that's not true actually - they asked me about 7 questions and I got 3 or 4 right, but they wouldn't do anything about it because I'd got a few wrong.

My mate works for Clydesdale Bank so I asked if he could deal with it which he did. I said in no uncertain terms that I wanted that 91p back, and didn't want the Clydesdale to pocket it (because I hate the bastards...).

Anyway, he dealt with it and phoned me back saying the guy in the credit card department said it wasn't worth posting a cheque out for 91p so they were just keeping it. "It's not a big deal, if you're worried about it I'll give you a pound." was his comment.

I'm not bothered about the 91p I just didn't want Clydesdale to get it. I'm sure they do similar things to many many customers, making themselves a tidy little profit. They'd made more than their money off me on that fucking credit card, and I wanted that 91p. The bastards.

[Le Stu]

They won't do this - well my bank wouldn't anyway.

I eventually paid off a credit card a few years ago, with a credit balance (can't even remember why I had credit) of less than 1.

It gained interest over a few years, and was sitting at 91p.

I eventually phoned them a month or two ago to cancel the account completely - I hadn't had the actual card for years, and it was just an extra bit of paper coming in the post every now and again that I didn't need.

Because it had been so long, I didn't know any of the security passwords or anything for dealing with it over the phone. Well that's not true actually - they asked me about 7 questions and I got 3 or 4 right, but they wouldn't do anything about it because I'd got a few wrong.

My mate works for Clydesdale Bank so I asked if he could deal with it which he did. I said in no uncertain terms that I wanted that 91p back, and didn't want the Clydesdale to pocket it (because I hate the bastards...).

Anyway, he dealt with it and phoned me back saying the guy in the credit card department said it wasn't worth posting a cheque out for 91p so they were just keeping it. "It's not a big deal, if you're worried about it I'll give you a pound." was his comment.

I'm not bothered about the 91p I just didn't want Clydesdale to get it. I'm sure they do similar things to many many customers, making themselves a tidy little profit. They'd made more than their money off me on that fucking credit card, and I wanted that 91p. The bastards.

I've got $1 and some odd change sitting in a Washington Mutual account, a bank that was recently taken over. Now JP Morgan Chase take my cents!!!

I'm sure once there's only one bank left I'll get it back

[Nev]

You can overpay, make a payment of 1.

Tried that, but it wouldn't allow me to overpay. Cheeky kents

[framheim]

This seems as good a place as any to post this:

Just checked my latest credit card statement for a card I paid off last month. Between the statement coming out and me making my payment, a purchase I'd made generated a wee bit of interest, 58p. Not a problem, I can afford to pay off 58 pence.

Sadly, my account requires a minimum payment of 1, and won't let me pay more than 58p onto the card, so I'm either going to have to make a purchase on the card (which I've since shredded so don't have the security code for) and pay the whole lot off, or... well, I dunno. Face a late fee for not paying an amount they won't let me pay? Madness!

do you get a statement through with a bank giro credit slip at the bottom? if so fill it out and take it to your bank with 58p(though probably best to put in a couple of pence extra, for the interest accrued on 58p) and they should process it. have you tried to make a payment for less than a pound? i didn't realise some cards had minimum payment amounts.

[framheim]

They won't do this - well my bank wouldn't anyway.

I eventually paid off a credit card a few years ago, with a credit balance (can't even remember why I had credit) of less than 1.

It gained interest over a few years, and was sitting at 91p.

I eventually phoned them a month or two ago to cancel the account completely - I hadn't had the actual card for years, and it was just an extra bit of paper coming in the post every now and again that I didn't need.

Because it had been so long, I didn't know any of the security passwords or anything for dealing with it over the phone. Well that's not true actually - they asked me about 7 questions and I got 3 or 4 right, but they wouldn't do anything about it because I'd got a few wrong.

My mate works for Clydesdale Bank so I asked if he could deal with it which he did. I said in no uncertain terms that I wanted that 91p back, and didn't want the Clydesdale to pocket it (because I hate the bastards...).

Anyway, he dealt with it and phoned me back saying the guy in the credit card department said it wasn't worth posting a cheque out for 91p so they were just keeping it. "It's not a big deal, if you're worried about it I'll give you a pound." was his comment.

I'm not bothered about the 91p I just didn't want Clydesdale to get it. I'm sure they do similar things to many many customers, making themselves a tidy little profit. They'd made more than their money off me on that fucking credit card, and I wanted that 91p. The bastards.

that's a bit cheeky. even if it's only 91p it's still your money, not the banks and they should write a cheque for it. you should've spoken to a manager about that, or at least written a stern letter. i got 70p back for a customer the other day and while they weren't fussed, i was of the opinion that it was 70p they were due and they should get it back regardless.