Jump to content
aberdeen-music

Bank Charges


Le Stu

Recommended Posts

Surely the payment guarantee should be refunded in full once the account holder deposits funds sufficient to put the account back within the agreed limit? After all, there is no loss to the bank in external obligations, right? And the overdraft fee has been paid so the labour costs involved in scrutinising the account are covered.

If it's put back in credit on the day the payment goes through then yes, i would agree that the fee should be waived or refunded but otherwise it's the account holders responsibility to monitor and manage their account, ensuring it stays in credit.

it's not just about labour costs either, but the fee will be there as a deterrent and as a source of profit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it's put back in credit on the day the payment goes through then yes, i would agree that the fee should be waived or refunded but otherwise it's the account holders responsibility to monitor and manage their account, ensuring it stays in credit.

it's not just about labour costs either, but the fee will be there as a deterrent and as a source of profit.

I suppose my main issue with regard to bank charges is the length of time it takes debits to be posted, and I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking this. In a perfect world our balance sheet is ticking over in our heads constantly, but in reality we get pished and take that extra tenner out. Now, this is of course our own fault, I humbly agree, but I still don't understand why clearly routine debits can't go out on the same day they're requested. We live in a time of high-frequency computer trading, after all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose my main issue with regard to bank charges is the length of time it takes debits to be posted, and I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking this. In a perfect world our balance sheet is ticking over in our heads constantly, but in reality we get pished and take that extra tenner out. Now, this is of course our own fault, I humbly agree, but I still don't understand why clearly routine debits can't go out on the same day they're requested. We live in a time of high-frequency computer trading, after all.

yea, i don't understand that either and have fallen into that trap myself. Also, why does it take some retailers 5 days to put through their card transactions(i'm looking at you co-op in skye)? it makes it hard to keep track of your spending.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

how will switching banks affect your credit record? it should also be hassle free, all high street banks signed an agreement to ensure customers can switch their accounts easily should they wish to. each bank has an account switching team who handle direct debit transfers and all the other gubbins to make it easy. don't like your bank, vote with your feet.

I agree that it won't impact directly but on any credit application I've filled out it always asks how long you've been with your bank. It depends on the lender, but I'm guessing they prefer to see someone who has been with their bank a long time than someone who has been with them for a few months and this may influence in some way how they score you. Maybe its not a big deal but I'm just a bit paranoid about these things.

I've heard of a few folk who had a real hassle changing bank accounts as DD's got missed out or whatever.

I'm just a sucker ?(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the size of the charge is irrelevant to the justification for having a charge. it's not shite, you're just annoyed that you didn't catch it before you were charged.

A charge is justified. If you have agreed to a banks T&C's then fair enough.

However, the actual charge is extortionate.

My bank recently offered me a 3 grand overdraft for my business for an annual charge of 200, crazy! They feed off the people who struggle to pay the tax bill.

I'm very proud that I have never gone into the red with my business and have always set aside money for VAT/tax but I feel that the banks find it an excellent opportunity to feed on the weak when they struggle.

I'm going off in a different direction now..haha:popcorn:

Long story short. Charges, yes, but justify them. I know the bank is a business but have some heart too. I know of many people who have been denied loans from banks when they are actually doing well during the recession but they are tarred with the same brush and are held back from expanding. There I go again...digressiontastic.:up: (also please excuse my shit grammer, I'm tired)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

why can't you see that this is two seperate things you've been charged for? you could have been sitting 30 over your overdraft limit and already have a 28 charge for that, then use your debit card to buy 3 items in a shop who don't automatically check your account a week later, racking up 3 35 charges for guaranteed card payments. 2 completely seperate things.

the size of the charge is irrelevant to the justification for having a charge. it's not shite, you're just annoyed that you didn't catch it before you were charged.

It is a load of shite, I made one breach of the rules (albeit with two supposed consequences according to you), I should be charged once. You never got charged twice 15 years ago, but in the interim some cunt that works in a bank has come up with this wizard wheeze to screw even more money out of the people who can least afford it. Ironically, I could have afforded to pay it, would have been bloody annoying, but it would have just meant it would have taken a bit longer to pay off my overdraft. I bet there are lots of people hit by these charges everyday who aren't so fortunate.

And on your second point I'm not annoyed I didn't catch it, because they waived the charges, I have simply recognised it for the pile of shite that it is.

I agree that you shouldn't have gone into banking though, I'm pretty sure you took my son's picture at Venture a few years ago and it's fantastic, it has pride of place in our living room (next to Hog's wedding photo* ;) ) and my wife and I enjoy looking at it every day. Don't get me started on fucking Venture though, they're almost as bad as the banks. At least Venture tell you upfront that they're going to fuck you up the arse, as opposed to the "potting shed" approach of the banks.

*The photo Hog took at MY wedding. I don't have any pictures of Hog's wedding, the bastard didn't invite me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is a load of shite, I made one breach of the rules (albeit with two supposed consequences according to you), I should be charged once. You never got charged twice 15 years ago, but in the interim some cunt that works in a bank has come up with this wizard wheeze to screw even more money out of the people who can least afford it. Ironically, I could have afforded to pay it, would have been bloody annoying, but it would have just meant it would have taken a bit longer to pay off my overdraft. I bet there are lots of people hit by these charges everyday who aren't so fortunate.

And on your second point I'm not annoyed I didn't catch it, because they waived the charges, I have simply recognised it for the pile of shite that it is.

I agree that you shouldn't have gone into banking though, I'm pretty sure you took my son's picture at Venture a few years ago and it's fantastic, it has pride of place in our living room (next to Hog's wedding photo* ;) ) and my wife and I enjoy looking at it every day. Don't get me started on fucking Venture though, they're almost as bad as the banks. At least Venture tell you upfront that they're going to fuck you up the arse, as opposed to the "potting shed" approach of the banks.

*The photo Hog took at MY wedding. I don't have any pictures of Hog's wedding, the bastard didn't invite me.

Now I'm really digressing.

I hate Venture with a passion, it does nothing but disillusion the publics perception regarding portrait photography.

The Venture closing in Aberdeen is awesome.

1) A lot of the samples you see are taken by the franchise (not the photographer who photographs you)

2) The prices are sky high, my portrait prices are a fraction of the Venture prices

3) Some of the branches use photographers who are simply not very good/ don't know what they are doing.

4) Some of the work is shockingly bad (although Dave is an excellent photographer)

5) People like Lisa Visser kick Ventures ass in so many ways

The MPA - Master Photography Awards 2009 Presentation

Venture studios are dropping like flies and I think it's good.

You shall get an invite to our house warming Bigsby:up:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now I'm really digressing.

I hate Venture with a passion, it does nothing but disillusion the publics perception regarding portrait photography.

The Venture closing in Aberdeen is awesome.

1) A lot of the samples you see are taken by the franchise (not the photographer who photographs you)

2) The prices are sky high, my portrait prices are a fraction of the Venture prices

3) Some of the branches use photographers who are simply not very good/ don't know what they are doing.

4) Some of the work is shockingly bad (although Dave is an excellent photographer)

5) People like Lisa Visser kick Ventures ass in so many ways

The MPA - Master Photography Awards 2009 Presentation

Venture studios are dropping like flies and I think it's good.

You shall get an invite to our house warming Bigsby:up:

Ha, that's not necessary I was merely joshing, but I hadn't realised Venture had shut down in Aberdeen. Have you got a studio now where you could take similar style pics?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is a load of shite, I made one breach of the rules (albeit with two supposed consequences according to you), I should be charged once. You never got charged twice 15 years ago, but in the interim some cunt that works in a bank has come up with this wizard wheeze to screw even more money out of the people who can least afford it. Ironically, I could have afforded to pay it, would have been bloody annoying, but it would have just meant it would have taken a bit longer to pay off my overdraft. I bet there are lots of people hit by these charges everyday who aren't so fortunate.

And on your second point I'm not annoyed I didn't catch it, because they waived the charges, I have simply recognised it for the pile of shite that it is.

I agree that you shouldn't have gone into banking though, I'm pretty sure you took my son's picture at Venture a few years ago and it's fantastic, it has pride of place in our living room (next to Hog's wedding photo* ;) ) and my wife and I enjoy looking at it every day. Don't get me started on fucking Venture though, they're almost as bad as the banks. At least Venture tell you upfront that they're going to fuck you up the arse, as opposed to the "potting shed" approach of the banks.

*The photo Hog took at MY wedding. I don't have any pictures of Hog's wedding, the bastard didn't invite me.

firstly, thanks! I'm not going to go into a rant about venture because i had a lot of fun working there and it's good to hear that people like the pictures. i think venture as a company do a lot of things right and a lot of things could improve(more mid range products i guess). the reason i left venture was all to do with the franchise owners in aberdeen and not to do with venture the company. it's a shame it closed because my friends lost their jobs but it was on the cards for a while. funnily enough one of the things i looked for when leaving venture was job security, not entirely sure banking provides that.

as hog said, some venture photographers were pretty bad but they do have some very talented people in some of the studios. the franchise owners just see it as another retail business and don't always understand the photography market though.

I am also available for portraiture but don't have a home studio, though i do have lights and can go to peoples homes or do location stuff :)

Portfolio for David Officer Photography David Officer Photography

back to the charges, you didn't make one breach but 4 separate ones. 1 was the unauthorised overdraft and 3 seperate payments.

of course there are people who get hit badly by charges, and as discussed earlier if they are in genuine trouble there are ways banks and other organisations can help. there are also far more people who abuse the system and constantly mismanage their accounts then try and have charges refunded.

i don't really want to argue about it though, i was just trying to explain a bit about the process as i didn't think you were clear on it. your own bank should have explained it to you when you discussed the charges. the easiest way to solve any of these issues is keep track of your spending, use online banking and don't spend money you don't have.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

back to the charges, you didn't make one breach but 4 separate ones. 1 was the unauthorised overdraft and 3 seperate payments.

My beef is with the fact that you get charged twice for one breach though, so the fact that I actually made three breaches isn't really relevant. If I'd only made one, I'd still have been charged twice, 35 and 28.

In fact, going by your/the banks' rationale, surely I should have in fact been charged SIX times. Once they get forced to reduce the charges they'll probably start doing that to make up for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My beef is with the fact that you get charged twice for one breach though, so the fact that I actually made three breaches isn't really relevant. If I'd only made one, I'd still have been charged twice, 35 and 28.

In fact, going by your/the banks' rationale, surely I should have in fact been charged SIX times. Once they get forced to reduce the charges they'll probably start doing that to make up for it.

have I explained it badly or are you deliberately misunderstanding me? Honest question.

You were not charged twice for the one breach, but two different ones. Ignore your payments for a moment, say it was the interest being applied to your overdraft that put you over your arranged limit, you would be charged 28. That fee is not connected to your payment charges, other than the payments being the catalyst for you breaching your arranged overdraft limit.

Does that make it any clearer?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand the concept entirely, I just think it's a pile of shite. Fact is it wasn't interest that put me over, it was using my debit card and I was charged accordingly. I shouldn't be charged again, regardless of the fact that it has a theoretical consequence in banking terms.

that's cool. you can think it's a pile of shite all you want, it's not a theoretical consequence in banking terms but a real life consequence of spending money you don't have. i'm not going to try and explain again because it's not that hard to grasp and you just want to keep sayings it's shite no matter what i say.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the main issue people have with it is that it is impossible to do one without the other.

You don't have sufficient funds in your account to pay a debit transaction but it comes out anyway - CHARGE.

Due to the bank (kindly?) paying for you, you're overdrawn - CHARGE.

There is never an instance that this situation will result in anything other than two charges. Yes, it's two 'breaches of T&Cs', but they are brought about by the same action.

I would much rather have my card declined or direct debit fail to go through and be notified.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the main issue people have with it is that it is impossible to do one without the other.

You don't have sufficient funds in your account to pay a debit transaction but it comes out anyway - CHARGE.

Due to the bank (kindly?) paying for you, you're overdrawn - CHARGE.

There is never an instance that this situation will result in anything other than two charges. Yes, it's two 'breaches of T&Cs', but they are brought about by the same action.

I would much rather have my card declined or direct debit fail to go through and be notified.

well in that exact situation it will result in two charges but say you were already over your agreed limit and you had a transaction come out, you'd only be charged for the transaction as you would already have had a fee applied for the overdraft. if you go over your overdraft limit there will be a fee applied but there are a number of ways you can go over your limit, so it is a seperate charge to transaction charges.

there is a fee for not paying the transaction as well. best thing is to make sure there's money to cover your transactions, although rbs have just reduced their unpaid fee from 38 to 5 so it's not as bad as the other fees. not paying the transaction, particularly in the case of direct debits, can cause more problems for customers than paying them and then they get angry about that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

there is a fee for not paying the transaction as well. best thing is to make sure there's money to cover your transactions, although rbs have just reduced their unpaid fee from 38 to 5 so it's not as bad as the other fees. not paying the transaction, particularly in the case of direct debits, can cause more problems for customers than paying them and then they get angry about that.

I guess this is true.

On the subject of banks and credit cards and such, it's far far too easy for an 18 year old with no clue as to how to manage their money (ie. me six years ago) to get into pretty serious problems. The fact bank charges have traditionally been so high means it's a spiral that can be extremely difficult for individuals to get out of.

There should be some serious education about the consequences of poor money management somewhere along the line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess this is true.

On the subject of banks and credit cards and such, it's far far too easy for an 18 year old with no clue as to how to manage their money (ie. me six years ago) to get into pretty serious problems. The fact bank charges have traditionally been so high means it's a spiral that can be extremely difficult for individuals to get out of.

There should be some serious education about the consequences of poor money management somewhere along the line.

I agree completely, education is hugely important and it doesn't help anyone to have a customer racking up hundreds of pounds of charges and getting deeper in debt. Banks make way more money of customers when they're in credit than in debt. Hopefully other banks will follow RBS and introduce things like their moneysense for schools programme which teaches kids money management skills and lets them take control of their banking. I know this is kinda ironic coming from RBS but it's better to teach kids about these things when they're young.

Also, the FSA this year made it a reglutorary necessity that banks 'treat customers fairly' when offering products and opening accounts. So, a customer should show a need for a loan, credit card, bond etc before they are offered one. RBS had made treating customers fairly a focus before I joined in September 2008, well before it was a requirement. Obviously if an 18 year old comes into the bank and insists on applying for a credit card and they pass a credit check there's not a lot can be done to stop them. Same for applying for an overdraft. You dont want to just patronise people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

not paying the transaction, particularly in the case of direct debits, can cause more problems for customers than paying them and then they get angry about that.

In my case though, paying using my debit card, it would have been immensley beneficial if the bank just prevented me spending money I didn't have.

Thanks to Adam for articulating my argument better than I could be bothered doing too. Dave, I guess we should just agree to disagree on this one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...