Bank Charges

[Bigsby]

I've got much the same deal with Clydesdale.

Might have to change back to Clydesdale then. Pain in the arse though, as otherwise I think HBOS is pretty damn good. Their online banking works well and it's easy to pay my credit cards and stuff (also with them) through it.

They say moving is a doddle but last time I moved loads of direct debits etc got fucked up, was a hassle. Might shift to the account where they give me a fiver and try to stay out of overdraft.

[Soda Jerk]

So, you have a current account with them, but they won't give you a debit card just an ATM card, is that right?

*and actually that's considered one of the safest building societies in the UK so maybe being tight is paying off

Yes. Just a bank card. They say my credit rating isn't good enough (it's not bad. it's just non-existant) to warrant one. Which is baffling, as they're not giving me credit. They say I need to have more DD's coming off my account.

My Mum has had her Sky bill DD'd from her account for about 8 years, and they won't give her one either.

Most strange.

[Le Stu]

Yes. Just a bank card. They say my credit rating isn't good enough (it's not bad. it's just non-existant) to warrant one. Which is baffling, as they're not giving me credit. They say I need to have more DD's coming off my account.

My Mum has had her Sky bill DD'd from her account for about 8 years, and they won't give her one either.

Most strange.

Trying to build credit from scratch is very difficult. You need to get some activity going on your credit report, maybe a small loan or low credit limit card, maybe even a secured credit card where you put a deposit down equal to your credit limit. I was out of the country for 5 years so it took me a while to get credit when I got back.

Though, TBH, it sounds like Nationwide have a stick up their ass. Your efforts might be better served by shopping around.

[Soda Jerk]

I'm in no rush really. I just curse queing at cash machines on cold days, when I could be paying with plastic.

[Adam Easy Wishes]

1. Get credit card.

2. Buy one shopping-trip on credit card per month.

3. Pay off in full.

4. Repeat.

[KittyCat]

1. Get credit card.

2. Buy one shopping-trip on credit card per month.

3. Pay off in full.

4. Repeat.

That's exactly what I did when I needed to get a decent credit rating for getting a mortgage.

It is a bit strange that they wont give you a debit card for your account but I suppose it's quite handy as you'll always know how much money you have left in your account, minimising over-spending.

[Scorge]

Something like this was inevitable, really.

Currently looking at a switch from HBOS to A&L when my pay comes in at the end of the month: I've had no problems as such with them, but not really had much benefit either.....

[framheim]

Aye, was looking to move to another bank, although the rest will probably follow suit.

Checked my bank account yesterday to discover that I had inadvertantly gone over my agreed overdraft by charging 3 items to my debit card. HBOS decided to charge 35 for EACH breach, ie 105 in total, PLUS 28 "for going into unauthorised overdraft". Um, wasn't that what the 35 charges were for???

In the end a grovelling phone call saying it was a mistake on my part and pointing out that it had never happened before got them to drop all but a 3 interest charge. Phew.

ok, i'm going to try and help a little bit in this thread seeing as i work in a high street bank.

the 35 is either a paid referral or a guaranteed card payment fee. this is charged for the bank paying a transaction when there was no money available. the 28 is the unauthorised overdraft fee which although caused by your transactions is seperate from the other fee's as it could be caused by a number of things. in the bank i work for these are not daily charges. all our charges have been reduced, some to as low as 5.

you're very lucky to have got them back and i think had it not been your first charge in a very long time, you would not have got them back.

i'll try and address a few points as best i can, i'm not going to debate the fairness of the value of any banks charges though as this is being decided by courts and i don't want anyone coming into my bank saying "dave said he agrees that the charges are too high" or something like that.

Yeah' date=' I've never been sure what that cryptic 'monthly overdraft fee' bullshit was about. I already moved my account to another bank (and a solvent one at that so I'm hoping they'll leave me alone.) and I'm just waiting to get my hundreds back that they already stole before closing the HBOS one. Was there a verdict on the court case yet? Anyone know?[/quote']

The court case is ongoing and as such if you make a complaint about bank charges and claim them to be unfair then you will not get a decision until the case is resolved. should you wish to complain about bank charges to any bank then you should to it politely and factually, most bank staff will work harder to get your charges back if they empaphise with you a bit.

As for the stolen comment, bank charges are applied usually when someone spends money they don't have on something. This is basically theft as they have made no agreement to borrow this money and the bank has had no warning of it. The charge is the same for 10p or 1000 pounds or even more as the bank must be seen to treat everyone the same. Although charges are frustrating they are there for a reason, the easiest way to avoid paying them is to keep track of your spending and get in touch with a bank or family if you're going to go over your limit, they might be able to help before charges are applied.

I'm not singling these two posts because they were bad but they caught my eye and allowed me to address a few points quickly. As with any retailer you get the best deals if you shop around, compare bank accounts and put some time into your research and you will find yourself better off. Speak to the advisors at the banks and remember to say 'No' or that you'll think it over, don't let people talk you into things if you're not comfortable but do listen as they can usually save you money on things as well.

The debit card thing for Original Spies, not sure why that would be. Debit cards usually have a cheque guarantee facility attached to them and as this is a type of credit facility then this could be your stumbling block if you have a poor credit rating. It may be that if it's a newish account there hasn't been enough activity on it, or it may also be that the person you've asked doesn't know what they're doing. Try seeing if they have a debit card which doesn't offer a cheque guarantee with it, like a Solo card.

Anyone want to know anything? I'll try and help, I hated banks before I worked in one(not particularly over the moon with them having worked in them either) and have had plenty charges over the years and i don't think i ever fully understood the workings of such things.

[Adam Easy Wishes]

The court case is ongoing and as such if you make a complaint about bank charges and claim them to be unfair then you will not get a decision until the case is resolved. should you wish to complain about bank charges to any bank then you should to it politely and factually, most bank staff will work harder to get your charges back if they empaphise with you a bit.

That said, complaining now (template letters at Money Saving Expert: Consumer Revenge - Credit Cards, Shopping, Bank Charges, Cheap Flights and more) means that at least you're in the queue - once the case goes through (and providing it rules in favour of the consumer) there will be a heap of people who decide to claim and it could take months if not years to get any result on your claim.

Secondly it's worth noting that if you can prove 'financial hardship', the bank is obliged to look at your claim and make a decision regardless of the fact the test case is ongoing. More details on this at the site above also.

[Le Stu]

HBOS are quite capable of denying direct debit payments on the basis of insufficient funds, yet they choose not to. They are complicit in these transactions, hence not theft. Perhaps the correct word I was looking for was 'extortion' as it came out some years ago that the true cost of processing these unauthorised transactions could be as little as 2.50.

[framheim]

HBOS are quite capable of denying direct debit payments on the basis of insufficient funds, yet they choose not to. They are complicit in these transactions, hence not theft. Perhaps the correct word I was looking for was 'extortion' as it came out some years ago that the true cost of processing these unauthorised transactions could be as little as 2.50.

Just cause you get caught shoplifting and have to put the food back doesn't mean you weren't shoplifting. but that's enough of the analogy as I'm sure you get the point and i don't want to annoy you with it.

Also should they choose to not pay the transaction you will receive an unpaid fee. These are not cheap either. It also causes the customer lots more hassle if their direct debits aren't paid or their standing order for rent or the card payment for their electricity.

Banks are a business and businesses don't do anything at cost price. I'm not going to debate the amount that a charge should be though, for the reasons i explained earlier, but I'm trying to explain a little about why there are charges.

[Nev]

I'm trying to explain a little about why there are charges.

To put it succinctly:

Banks are businesses, and businesses are cunts.

Seemples!

[framheim]

That said, complaining now (template letters at Money Saving Expert: Consumer Revenge - Credit Cards, Shopping, Bank Charges, Cheap Flights and more) means that at least you're in the queue - once the case goes through (and providing it rules in favour of the consumer) there will be a heap of people who decide to claim and it could take months if not years to get any result on your claim.

Secondly it's worth noting that if you can prove 'financial hardship', the bank is obliged to look at your claim and make a decision regardless of the fact the test case is ongoing. More details on this at the site above also.

This is true. You have to be in real trouble though and prove that you're not racking up charges by overspending in topshop and ebay then realising you've run out of money for your rent.

First thing to do if you're in trouble is speak to your debtors and seek advice from Citizens Advice, the Consumer Credit Counselling Service or any other debt advisory charity or organisation. Royal Bank also over an independent and impartial advice session on budgeting called Moneysense who can also put you in touch with debt management services. This is open to non-rbs customers as well.

[Le Stu]

HBOS isn't really a business. After all, if they were a business they'd have a share price of 0 right now.

Since we're on the subject of theft, but I digress...

[framheim]

HBOS isn't really a business. After all, if they were a business they'd have a share price of 0 right now.

Since we're on the subject of theft, but I digress...

that's a whole other subject, i picked the worst time ever to move into banking. bah.

[Le Stu]

that's a whole other subject, i picked the worst time ever to move into banking. bah.

Yeah, I actually left a rather large train wreck of a US bank some time ago. Jumped before I got pushed. There's some very nasty commercial realestate related securities about to go boom in the near term future.

hang on to pantyhose. I could bore people for hours with this shit.

[Spoonie]

Not surprised to see his happen either. High street banks are pushing their packaged accounts hard again, because the loss of charge income from people going over their overdrafts, etc is gonna need ot be made up from somewhere.

[Bigsby]

the 35 is either a paid referral or a guaranteed card payment fee. this is charged for the bank paying a transaction when there was no money available. the 28 is the unauthorised overdraft fee which although caused by your transactions is seperate from the other fee's as it could be caused by a number of things. in the bank i work for these are not daily charges.

OK, you've given the bank's rationale for the charges, but you haven't justified them. In my opinion, three separate 35 fees cannot be justified, and another 28 for the same thing definitely can't.

[framheim]

OK, you've given the bank's rationale for the charges, but you haven't justified them. In my opinion, three separate 35 fees cannot be justified, and another 28 for the same thing definitely can't.

they're not for the same thing. 28 is for going into an unauthorised overdraft and the 35 fees are for paying the retailers money that you've promised yet don't have. these events can be entriely unrelated, it's only because they happened at the same time you are seeing a link between them.

the fees themselves are justified(there should be a charge for services such as guaranteed card payments or paid referrals) but i'm not going to get caught up in justifying the amount of these particular fees.

[Bigsby]

Well, I don't think they're justified. If you're going to go down that road then the council should start charging folk double for parking fines, once to pay the wages of the traffic warden and again for the cost of the piece of paper they stick to the windscreen.

My arse, it's a pile of shite and it looks like it's going to be seen to be a pile of shite in the courts soon.

[ub7rm]

HBOS has been steadily going downhill for customer service and particularly showing any customer loyalty since Halifax merged with BoS. A couple of months ago I went the grand total of 80p into my overdraft for about 3 hours until I transferred money.

Despite having a reasonably healthy savings account, mortgage, credit card and having been a customer of the bank ever since they gave out those saver squirrel money boxes I was charged this 35 + 28 charge. I phoned up pretty confident that I could get the fee waived but insead was told that these were the conditions I had agreed to and they wern't going to waive the fees.

Feeling confident that no one could look me in the eye and claim that 63 was a fair price for going 80p into an overdraft for 3 hours I went down to the branch and sure enough the fee was refunded.

I know from my Fiancee's experience that RBS won't hit you with a charge if you put money into your account before 2pm on the same day. With this latest wheeze HBOS have cooked up with their fee's I'm sorely tempted to fuck them off and go elsewhere but its the hassle and the impact on my credit record thats holding me back.

Bastards.

[framheim]

Well, I don't think they're justified. If you're going to go down that road then the council should start charging folk double for parking fines, once to pay the wages of the traffic warden and again for the cost of the piece of paper they stick to the windscreen.

My arse, it's a pile of shite and it looks like it's going to be seen to be a pile of shite in the courts soon.

no, the courts are only judging on the size of the charges not the charges themselves. they may rule that 35 and 28 is too much but they will not be judging on two seperate charges for two seperate services.

why can't you see that this is two seperate things you've been charged for? you could have been sitting 30 over your overdraft limit and already have a 28 charge for that, then use your debit card to buy 3 items in a shop who don't automatically check your account a week later, racking up 3 35 charges for guaranteed card payments. 2 completely seperate things.

the size of the charge is irrelevant to the justification for having a charge. it's not shite, you're just annoyed that you didn't catch it before you were charged.

[framheim]

HBOS has been steadily going downhill for customer service and particularly showing any customer loyalty since Halifax merged with BoS. A couple of months ago I went the grand total of 80p into my overdraft for about 3 hours until I transferred money.

Despite having a reasonably healthy savings account, mortgage, credit card and having been a customer of the bank ever since they gave out those saver squirrel money boxes I was charged this 35 + 28 charge. I phoned up pretty confident that I could get the fee waived but insead was told that these were the conditions I had agreed to and they wern't going to waive the fees.

Feeling confident that no one could look me in the eye and claim that 63 was a fair price for going 80p into an overdraft for 3 hours I went down to the branch and sure enough the fee was refunded.

I know from my Fiancee's experience that RBS won't hit you with a charge if you put money into your account before 2pm on the same day. With this latest wheeze HBOS have cooked up with their fee's I'm sorely tempted to fuck them off and go elsewhere but its the hassle and the impact on my credit record thats holding me back.

Bastards.

how will switching banks affect your credit record? it should also be hassle free, all high street banks signed an agreement to ensure customers can switch their accounts easily should they wish to. each bank has an account switching team who handle direct debit transfers and all the other gubbins to make it easy. don't like your bank, vote with your feet.

[Le Stu]

no, the courts are only judging on the size of the charges not the charges themselves. they may rule that 35 and 28 is too much but they will not be judging on two seperate charges for two seperate services.

why can't you see that this is two seperate things you've been charged for? you could have been sitting 30 over your overdraft limit and already have a 28 charge for that, then use your debit card to buy 3 items in a shop who don't automatically check your account a week later, racking up 3 35 charges for guaranteed card payments. 2 completely seperate things.

the size of the charge is irrelevant to the justification for having a charge. it's not shite, you're just annoyed that you didn't catch it before you were charged.

Surely the payment guarantee should be refunded in full once the account holder deposits funds sufficient to put the account back within the agreed limit? After all, there is no loss to the bank in external obligations, right? And the overdraft fee has been paid so the labour costs involved in scrutinising the account are covered.

[Le Stu]

how will switching banks affect your credit record? it should also be hassle free, all high street banks signed an agreement to ensure customers can switch their accounts easily should they wish to. each bank has an account switching team who handle direct debit transfers and all the other gubbins to make it easy. don't like your bank, vote with your feet.

Dave is right. I did my transfer by post and online and it took a little time but was worth it. I long for the destruction of the UK's big banks so Dave can get a job with a new Co-op branch in Aberdeen and I can have a branch to come in to and argue my fees face to face with him.