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General Election 2010


Guest Gladstone
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Guest Gladstone

Can someone who knows about politics enlighten me with the pros and cons of each party, and their leaders etc?

I'm at a complete loss as to who I'd rather vote for at the moment. I haven't read any party policies for ages, but have been following the news and Gordon Brown's seemingly catastrophic run as PM. About a month ago it seemed certain David Cameron would be PM next year, and I couldn't decide whether Gordon Brown was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, or whether he is actually a rubbish PM. I've a feeling he's going to turn it around come election time and be the man to turn the country around.

That said, I heard snippets (not the whole speech unfortunately) of Cameron's rally call a couple of weeks ago, and he sounded like he was talking sense a lot of the time.

What about the other parties? I've voted Lib Dems once before, but to be honest, haven't heard much from them recently - the media seems to be focussing on a 2 horse (or more recently 1 horse) race. When I was 18, there was a lot being written about the Lib Dems establishing themselves as a contender but it's never materialised.

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Labour all the way for me. Lib Dems are a wasted vote and Conservatives are all talk no action. Cameron is a clown as well.

Gordon Brown has drawn a rather shitty hand but he is a solid leader and if anyone is going to get the UK out of its current financial pickle i truly believe he is the right man. We currently have the best man for the job in the current climate. I don't think switching to Conservative will offer anything that won't put us further in the shitter in the long run.

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Guest Gladstone
Labour all the way for me. Lib Dems are a wasted vote and Conservatives are all talk no action. Cameron is a clown as well.

Gordon Brown has drawn a rather shitty hand but he is a solid leader and if anyone is going to get the UK out of its current financial pickle i truly believe he is the right man. We currently have the best man for the job in the current climate. I don't think switching to Conservative will offer anything that won't put us further in the shitter in the long run.

Hmmm, yeah, I've been swaying more to this kind of thinking lately. Whenever I look at Cameron, I think Tony Blair Wannabe... But some of the things he's said lately, sound very sensible. I guess talking a good game is one thing though. Whether he can deliver is something else entirely.

I've always thought that Gordon Brown should be the man to bring us out of the financial crisis, but his term so far has just gone from bad to worse. But things appear to be gradually looking up.

I think the fact that Cameron was shouting for an election not long after Brown got into power tells its own story. Come Election time, Brown will have had a decent amount of rebuilding time, whereas an election in any time in the past few months would surely have seen Cameron being elected. Just because the country was in the shit, and it's easy to point the finger at the man in charge of the country.

Brown lacks the charisma and charm that Blair had and now Cameron seems to have, but I've always felt that he'd be a more steady leader, and isn't about being cool or young or hip or any of that nonsense. He wants to run the country, and that's it. We suffer a lot from "Americanisation" in this country as we all know. Our culture becomes more like America everyday. The massive show that is made of the elections in their country and the money spent (/wasted) on their ridiculous campaigns should be put to far better use. I'm more for less gimmicky politicians who can get the job done.

I struggle to take David Cameron seriously sometimes because he looks like a waxwork. Gordon Brown looks like a grumpy old cynical bastard, which is much more appealing for a PM.

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"No return to boom and bust" - Gordon Brown

Guess that rules him out, for me. Unfortunately, at the time, Cameron was attempting to market his party with a green image rather than criticise the things Brown did as Chancellor which produced Britain's 'economic miracle' which was nothing more than debt driven Keynesian stimulus and house flipping. So, I would say that Cameron has not proven himself to have any sort of conviction as a fiscal conservative.

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NOOOOOoooooooooooooo....

...way too soon. That said...

I have been disenfranchised by the Increasingly Inexorable Social Authoritarianism of the Labour party, and nothing they have said makes me think this will be reversed, so, for many many reasons I don't feel that Labour, my natural party, deserve to win. That said, I do think that in terms of Public Spending, the Tories will be mad enough to cut cut cut spending before the economy is ready, on fully ideological grounds, thus dooming us further, and threatening my public sector job, bastids. So I'd say grit yer teeth, tighten yer belt, hell shoot some smack if you need to, hold your nose and vote for the leastWorst Party, probably the class traitor L....L....L..., make yer own choice, L....them.

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I'm wavering between supporting the SNP to give Scotland a little more (non Labour) clout in the next term of parliament or supporting a fringe party like UKIP who realistically have no chance of gaining a seat in Scotland but could benefit from grassroots support.

I have no faith in the so-called eurosceptic Cameron delivering us a referendum on EU membership, so that we can finally get off that particular fence. You need a flowchart to understand his stance on the issue.

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So then y'all, Europe; in or oot?

Out. Join EFTA like Norway and Switzerland (suspiciously European countries), which is all the '75 referendum gave our government a mandate for anyway.

*I mean the common market rather than EFTA specifically, as we were in EFTA before we signed up to the EEC.

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The first past the post system makes it quite infuriating as a voter, especially in Scotland where the Conservatives have little support (compared to other parts of the UK at least) as it means our votes can do little to keep them out.

I have no respect for Cameron at all. I think he offers simple solutions to people who won't think of long-term consequences. Brown has had a rough time of it really but I think if anyone is going to lead the country of turmoil it will, although I do find Nick Clegg quite refreshing too..

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My major confusion, with regard to the attitudes of the British electorate, is why the voters believe Gordon Brown is somehow trustworthy or perceived as the steady hand to sail us through stormy waters (usual horrible media metaphor.) The guy has delivered unto us a fantasy economy where we borrow, spend and inflate and pay for nothing with production or savings. Perhaps it's unfair to criticise him solely for this as it's been an economic system that has been propagated since the days of Thatcher. We have simply delayed the consequences of the de-industrialisation of this nation by the maturation date of our government bonds. However, since Gordon Brown didn't bite the bullet and do the unpopular belt-tightening back in '97, what makes you think he'll do it now? And do you really think we can go on like this?

The second piece of confusion is why people believe the conservative party wish to cut spending just because they're the 'nasty party' and it's because they like to do it. Again, the British public are being badly mislead by our Mickey Mouse media. You cannot call a ten-fold increase in annual budget deficits in a decade simply the can you can kick down the road for another ten years. We are now paying off an amount of interest on this debt which equalled the entire deficit a mere decade ago. This does not go well for us from here on in and the options are evaporating the longer we leave it.

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I'll probably vote green even if I do drive a gas guzzling motor, their hearts are in the right place. Preferably would vote for the monster raving looney party if they have a candidate here!

Nick Griffin on Question Time should be a hoot, but not in a humorous way mind. I'm sure the racist bigot will be rightly gunned down in flames although doubt Jack Straw will give him too much grief , he always comes across as a bit of a pansy. I'm actually all for letting tossers like the BNP have their say on national telly, they'll be shown up for what they really are. And freedom of speech and all that.

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Guest Gladstone

Hmmm, Dave's got me back onto seriously considering voting Conservative against all my natural instincts...

My comment about things looking up. I meant looking up for Gordon Brown in that he seems to be clawing back some of the support that he lost.

Got to agree with you on the shitty hand comments too. I keep forgetting that he was in the thick of it for the 10 years prior to taking charge of the country. Whether it's all his doing or not, he has to have had a lot of influence on the current economic state of our country. I think I would like him to be sensible enough to steer us through this crisis because of his financial background, and he just seems like the steady option against a young dynamic Cameron.

I need to get my hands on some literature and start reading up on all the parties/candidates/policies etc. My views at the moment are massively formed from the media, and I don't really like the media if I'm honest - you never know when they're speaking balls to sell papers (probably most of the time...).

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Hmmm, Dave's got me back onto seriously considering voting Conservative against all my natural instincts...

My comment about things looking up. I meant looking up for Gordon Brown in that he seems to be clawing back some of the support that he lost.

Got to agree with you on the shitty hand comments too. I keep forgetting that he was in the thick of it for the 10 years prior to taking charge of the country. Whether it's all his doing or not, he has to have had a lot of influence on the current economic state of our country. I think I would like him to be sensible enough to steer us through this crisis because of his financial background, and he just seems like the steady option against a young dynamic Cameron.

I need to get my hands on some literature and start reading up on all the parties/candidates/policies etc. My views at the moment are massively formed from the media, and I don't really like the media if I'm honest - you never know when they're speaking balls to sell papers (probably most of the time...).

Don't listen to the media, listen to David Cameron and you'll find he is a complete wanker. If he wins he wins on default cause the Labour party are a shambles at the moment and there is NO chance of Gordon Brown getting a win.

The country needs a major shake up on so many fronts and i just can't see ANY of the candidates being up to the task.

I reckon Simon Cowell goes for PM.

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And who dealt that hand? Surely you can't absolve Brown from making some well-documented catastrophic errors during his time as Chancellor and PM? How can we trust him not to do the same, or worse, in the future. To carry on the card metaphor, he's a busted flush.

I think we can go all the way back to Callaghan for that. He's not really made any more "catastrophic" errors than anyone else and i think he's made a valiant attempt at stabilising the economy and things are slowly (very slowly) leveling out.

I firmly believe that if we went Conservative we'd just be trading like for like and the Conservatives don't seem to have much of a long term plan for anything.

While Brown might be a grumpy sod i have utter faith in him, as i did in Tony Blair.

Dave, you are one of a few Tories i actually know who seem to have forgotten how shite it was living in the UK during the Thatcher and Major years.

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Guest Gladstone
I think we can go all the way back to Callaghan for that. He's not really made any more "catastrophic" errors than anyone else and i think he's made a valiant attempt at stabilising the economy and things are slowly (very slowly) leveling out.

I firmly believe that if we went Conservative we'd just be trading like for like and the Conservatives don't seem to have much of a long term plan for anything.

While Brown might be a grumpy sod i have utter faith in him, as i did in Tony Blair.

Dave, you are one of a few Tories i actually know who seem to have forgotten how shite it was living in the UK during the Thatcher and Major years.

I think Phil should lead the Labour Party and Dave the Conservatives. And all debates should be held on Aberdeen Music.

I'm finding myself agreeing with you both, which is unfortunate as I can't vote for both parties... One of the reasons I'm swaying towards Gordon Brown is that a bit of stability and continuity in the country at a time like this should be a good thing. I think if Cameron came in next year, he'd be trying to implement new policies etc which is probably slightly inappropriate when we need to steady the ship first. Perhaps a few years of Brown, then Cameron in the Election in 2014/15, but I guess by that time our country will look altogether different.

And perhaps a change in Government with their new policies etc will actually help to get us out of the mess we have found ourselves in.

Fuck knows.

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Not necessarily a bad thing. Thatcher, Joseph and Friedman were hardly fiscal conservatives, were they? They took radical, unheard of steps to jolt the economy back into life in the 80's, much against the advice of older heads in their part who couldn't bear to part with their Keynesianism and their "managed decline". Cameron will do the same, I fancy, and find modern solutions for modern problems.

Thatcher was great when she had Hayek in her handbag. Those are the kind of radical policies that we need implemented. Unfortunately, it means taking a massive hit on public sector jobs and, subsequently, our retail and service sectors to rebalance the economy with high unemployment as a result. This is going to be very painful and extremely unpopular. I just hope Cameron and Osborne have the eggs to do it or we're going to have a problem. We cannot pay our debt back to foreign creditors and you can only push that so far before disaster occurs.

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My major confusion, with regard to the attitudes of the British electorate, is why the voters believe Gordon Brown is somehow trustworthy or perceived as the steady hand to sail us through stormy waters (usual horrible media metaphor.) The guy has delivered unto us a fantasy economy where we borrow, spend and inflate and pay for nothing with production or savings. Perhaps it's unfair to criticise him solely for this as it's been an economic system that has been propagated since the days of Thatcher.

That's the problem right there. The Conservative Government started the problem and Labour just ran with it, the best example being their obsession with PFI. But as Alkaline says it could possibly be said to go further back than that - I really kind of doubt there is an honest way to run an economy nowadays, it's all smoke and mirrors by definition. We're fucked no matter who's in charge. And that just makes me fear a return to the Tories even more. Leaving aside the economy, at least Labour brought back a feeling of 'society' again, which the Tories had purposefully killed off. Anyone old enough to be able to compare life pre and post 97 could tell the difference in how people treat each other. The 80s and 90s were great if you were already in a position to help yourself and you really didn't care about anyone else. Otherwise you were fucked. Forget it. Seriously, if you didn't live through that time, you can't imagine how depressing the whole 'fuck you, I'm OK' attitude was. Generally speaking Labour at least brought back some sort of sense of helping others. That still wins for me.

I know it's early in the day, but I must be pissed, because I could swear Dave just described himself as a 'libertarian'... o_O

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Peoples lives are infinitely more important than any debt, one thing forgotten in the 80s, the collateral damage to society hugely outweighs any economic benefit caused by reducing debt. We are still now paying the social price of the 80s, that was when the destruction was wreaked that has led to families with 3 to 4 generations who had never worked. Such deprivation was much less evident in the 60s and 70s. Better to be uncompetitive and humane, than chasing the elusive and frequently mythical trickle-down effect. A false boom is no boom at all.

Anyhoo aren't these banks etc meant to be paying that money back? Sorry, bad taste joke.

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Peoples lives are infinitely more important than any debt, one thing forgotten in the 80s, the collateral damage to society hugely outweighs any economic benefit caused by reducing debt. We are still now paying the social price of the 80s, that was when the destruction was wreaked that has led to families with 3 to 4 generations who had never worked. Such deprivation was much less evident in the 60s and 70s. Better to be uncompetitive and humane, than chasing the elusive and frequently mythical trickle-down effect. A false boom is no boom at all.

Precisely why we should put an end to these debt driven booms and busts whereby one 'socially conscious' government installs the comfy rug under our feet, only to have the next 'bastardy conservative' government rip it from beneath our feet again.

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That's the problem right there. The Conservative Government started the problem and Labour just ran with it, the best example being their obsession with PFI. But as Alkaline says it could possibly be said to go further back than that - I really kind of doubt there is an honest way to run an economy nowadays, it's all smoke and mirrors by definition. We're fucked no matter who's in charge. And that just makes me fear a return to the Tories even more. Leaving aside the economy, at least Labour brought back a feeling of 'society' again, which the Tories had purposefully killed off. Anyone old enough to be able to compare life pre and post 97 could tell the difference in how people treat each other. The 80s and 90s were great if you were already in a position to help yourself and you really didn't care about anyone else. Otherwise you were fucked. Forget it. Seriously, if you didn't live through that time, you can't imagine how depressing the whole 'fuck you, I'm OK' attitude was. Generally speaking Labour at least brought back some sort of sense of helping others. That still wins for me.

I definitely agree that the unfortunate corporatism of the later Thatcher years was gleefully embraced by Labour. I would also agree with you concerning this notion of 'society' the government claims they contruct or deconstruct, but this is due to our unfortunate dependence upon them, something we can only really strive to escape through our individual lives in our communities. And I was a kid in the 80s so I had a blast but yes it was harsh for a lot of people and the problems still linger because our working class still have no industry. It's the same story from Glasgow to Detroit.

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