Animal Welfare

[Scootray]

there is no need for us to eat living animals. in many respects meat is bad for us. i have been vegetarian for over 20 years and feel a lot better for it. meat consumption in the western world is reducing. in a few generations it may well be a thing of the past.

all this crap (for every animal you don't eat i'll eat three pish) is childish bollox. if these people were really so cock sure they should go and take an animal about their size and weight on a one to one basis, say a small wolf.... then we could see who would feast on who... the whole concept of eating another living being when the odds are stacked in our favour is nothing to be proud of.

i share your sentiment

No-one eats a living animal, unless they are rambo or something.

And how the fuck is meat bad for us? Have you seen your teeth lately? I'm sorry, but if we were all meant to eat leaves then we would have a set of teeth designed for leaves. As it stands, we have 4 canines for ripping the shit out of meat.

No-one will stop eating meat. Fact. Except pussies.

EDIT: If it wasn't for meat eaters, some of these "precious" animals would be extinct.

[Gus Chamber]

No-one will stop eating meat. Fact. Except pussies.

That's about all I want to say, I've had to listen to condescending middle-class anarcho-vegans for long enough. People will eat what they choose and there's fuck all anyone can say or do to stop it. You can live off rabbit food if you want, just don't get all holier-than-thou about it. Leave the moralising to the christians.

[Soda Jerk]

Life's too short for all this shite. No doubt I'll get told to "shut the fuck up" for not taking this seriously (just as every opposed viewpoint has been told to do, regardless of its sincerity. The trusty irrationality of the preachy Kevin Keegan), but that's serious as it gets. Diet, like religion, is a choice and diet, like religion, is constantly belittled by protg Bono's trying to save the world with petty, unfounded guilt trips and baiting. I couldn't possibly care any less. Besides - Meat tastes wonderful, and Tofu doesn't.

[Le Stu]

Tofu can be quite nice, with a side of meat.

[Calzone]

It's also quite bad for you, Tofu is, its actually healthier to eat meat. Tofu contains antinutrients which can block absorption of essential minerals. That Lazlow dude (from the GTA Radio) once said on his own radio show that his doctor told him he had to stop eating Tofu or he'd get Gout (or some other disease, think it was Gout).

Enjoy Tofu in moderation. xD

[Le Stu]

That's a good point. Soy isn't really suitable for human consumption unless it's been through a fermentation process, like Tempeh, miso and soy sauce. Soy beans are also very high in phytoestrogens which can behave like human estrogens in the body.

Though it should be said that there is a large scale argibusiness propoganda war going on between Big Soy and Big Meat so maybe take the health concerns with a pinch of salt, unless it's soy sauce which is already full of sodium.

[Alkaline]

I like the taste of meat. I like the texture of meat. I would categorically not have a problem killing and eating any one of you lot or another human being i wasn't emotionally attached to (though if they were dead already i wouldn't have a problem eating them) if the need arose.

I have no problem with people that don't feel the same but i will remind you that you're first on the fork if the shit hits the fan

[paranoid]

i will remind you that you're first on the fork if the shit hits the fan

Haha, love it.

[KimyReizeger]

I like meat therefore I eat it is not an argument in any way relevant to a discussion of ethics and it's rather sad that so many have jumped on the defensive here. We really should all pay attention to what we eat, where it comes from and at least spare a thought for the process by which it arrives on our plates, rather than sticking heads into the sand and refusing to accept that our actions might be unethical. I'm sure we can all argee upon that and stop the infantile sabotage of a perfectly good point by Zapatista (who appears to have been chased away by the philistines, unfortunately). I would advise people unwilling to confront real issues to keep out of such a thread; aren't there some wacky youtube videos of people getting hurt for you to watch?

Besides, economic conditions currently allow us to import all sorts of weird and wonderful foods, so we aren't necessarily confined to a turnip diet should we decide to cease eating meat.

[paranoid]

So one slaughterhouse in 100 is unethical in it's slaughter methods, so all are deemed unethical by association? How does that work?

[Fast Caz]

I am not refusing to accept that my actions may be unethical. I am very at ease with my thoughts and views and to be perfectly honest with you aslong as my meat is of good quality then thats where my mind stops.

End of.

I just think that if you feel so strongly about animal welfare please pick up a clipboard and go beg people for their credit card details on union st.

Vegetable rights and peace yeah !

[Fast Caz]

This is going round in circles.

Close thread.

Otherwise i'm just going to take the piss out of these hippies !

[Stichman]

Life's too short for all this shite. No doubt I'll get told to "shut the fuck up" for not taking this seriously (just as every opposed viewpoint has been told to do, regardless of its sincerity. The trusty irrationality of the preachy Kevin Keegan), but that's serious as it gets. Diet, like religion, is a choice and diet, like religion, is constantly belittled by protg Bono's trying to save the world with petty, unfounded guilt trips and baiting. I couldn't possibly care any less. Besides - Meat tastes wonderful, and Tofu doesn't.

SENSE.

'Please spread blah-de-blah'

[TheTickingTime-Bomb]

Life's too short for all this shite. No doubt I'll get told to "shut the fuck up" for not taking this seriously (just as every opposed viewpoint has been told to do, regardless of its sincerity. The trusty irrationality of the preachy Kevin Keegan), but that's serious as it gets. Diet, like religion, is a choice and diet, like religion, is constantly belittled by protg Bono's trying to save the world with petty, unfounded guilt trips and baiting. I couldn't possibly care any less. Besides - Meat tastes wonderful, and Tofu doesn't.

NONSENSE.

Again, lets just say we were talking about another ethical issue, slavery. Now remember, ending slavery was not an obvious moral progression for many people, who I'm sure like you, believed that life was too short to worry about all this shite.

[Alkaline]

I like meat therefore I eat it is not an argument in any way relevant to a discussion of ethics and it's rather sad that so many have jumped on the defensive here. We really should all pay attention to what we eat, where it comes from and at least spare a thought for the process by which it arrives on our plates, rather than sticking heads into the sand and refusing to accept that our actions might be unethical. I'm sure we can all argee upon that and stop the infantile sabotage of a perfectly good point by Zapatista (who appears to have been chased away by the philistines, unfortunately). I would advise people unwilling to confront real issues to keep out of such a thread; aren't there some wacky youtube videos of people getting hurt for you to watch?

Besides, economic conditions currently allow us to import all sorts of weird and wonderful foods, so we aren't necessarily confined to a turnip diet should we decide to cease eating meat.

Do you smoke?

I've killed quite a few things and i've been in a few slaughter houses so that sort of thing doesn't bother me at all. I have no problem with the consequences of what i eat and eating meat isn't unhealthy (i appreciate it might not be 100% necessary). I liek a lot of vegetables as well and fruits. I'm neither a faff or a picky person when it comes to eating.

I'm not being held to task by a bunch of clowns on an internet forum who can't respect my opinion on the subject.

[TheTickingTime-Bomb]

Do you smoke?

I've killed quite a few things and i've been in a few slaughter houses so that sort of thing doesn't bother me at all. I have no problem with the consequences of what i eat and eating meat isn't unhealthy (i appreciate it might not be 100% necessary). I liek a lot of vegetables as well and fruits. I'm neither a faff or a picky person when it comes to eating.

I'm not being held to task by a bunch of clowns on an internet forum who can't respect my opinion on the subject.

Why are you asking him if he smokes?

[Frosty Jack]

This is going round in circles.

Close thread.

Otherwise i'm just going to take the piss out of these hippies !

Why would we close it? This is a good healthy discussion, to which you clearly just have nothing worthwhile to add. The thread will be fine if you just stay out of it.

[Guest droid]

Best store i have ever been in,and the best meat i have ever tasted.Farm Animal and Meat Quality Standards | WholeFoodsMarket.com

[Shaki]

I like meat therefore I eat it is not an argument in any way relevant to a discussion of ethics and it's rather sad that so many have jumped on the defensive here. We really should all pay attention to what we eat, where it comes from and at least spare a thought for the process by which it arrives on our plates, rather than sticking heads into the sand and refusing to accept that our actions might be unethical. I'm sure we can all argee upon that and stop the infantile sabotage of a perfectly good point by Zapatista (who appears to have been chased away by the philistines, unfortunately). I would advise people unwilling to confront real issues to keep out of such a thread; aren't there some wacky youtube videos of people getting hurt for you to watch?

Besides, economic conditions currently allow us to import all sorts of weird and wonderful foods, so we aren't necessarily confined to a turnip diet should we decide to cease eating meat.

Don't presume such responses to be an "unwillingness to confront real issues". The message from a lot of carnivores here is quite simple:

I don't care enough about animal welfare to stop eating meat.

I eat meat because I like it.

Once again......

DON'T CARE.

LIKE MEAT.

This opinion is widespread across the majority of the world and is what keeps the human race munching on animals so you can't really discount it from the argument. Indeed, it wins the argument for me.

[Guest Hobo]

NONSENSE.

Again, lets just say we were talking about another ethical issue, slavery. Now remember, ending slavery was not an obvious moral progression for many people, who I'm sure like you, believed that life was too short to worry about all this shite.

Arguing that slavery is akin to vegitarianism is just dumb

Thats almost as dumb as saying guys shouldn't eat sausages because they are similar in shape to a penis homosexuals were repressed in the past

[ca_gere]

I'm a meat eater. I have no moral viewpoint on the subject. Let veggies be veggies and carnies be... well awesome (joking)

I'm very aware of where my meat comes from and am also aware there is malpractice going on all over the meat packing industry. There are just as many humane abbatoirs though. I don't buy battery farmed chicken from the supermarket but I'd happily eat veal in a fancy restaurant. If that's hypocritical then I don't really mind, there are far greater injustices in the world to worry about and ones that Im in a better position to change.

Imagine what would happen to Japan if they stopped eating fish. the place would implode.

I'm not picking a fight but how is there any correlation between the slave trade and the slaughtering of animals? Surely the minor matter of cognitive thought seperates man from beast no? I really don't get the point. And before you tell me.. no I'm not gonna read a book about it. I've got an Andy Mcnabb to finish.

[Alkaline]

Why are you asking him if he smokes?

Because if he does, he doesn't have to. Just because our predecessors did doesn't mean that those of us who are alive in a civilised world these days can't make an informed decision regarding the inevitable health problems caused and hastened by smoking. Not to mention the ecological effects of people smoking and the industry that's driven by it.

There are lots of ethical questions regarding smoking and the imposed self-harm and harm to others (both physically and emotionally) that's caused by it.

Once again, i'm not bothered about people smoking myself but i wouldn't presume to get all arrogant and judgemental towards people that do or don't.

Smokers have their cancer sticks, i have my meat. Everyone's happy.

[Guest Hobo]

Somebody mentioning ants reminded me of this:

(Alok Jha investigates the extraordinary world of ants | Environment | The Guardian)

Thats exactly what I was talking about

[KimyReizeger]

I am not refusing to accept that my actions may be unethical. I am very at ease with my thoughts and views and to be perfectly honest with you aslong as my meat is of good quality then thats where my mind stops.

End of.

I just think that if you feel so strongly about animal welfare please pick up a clipboard and go beg people for their credit card details on union st.

Vegetable rights and peace yeah !

The prospect of creatures suffering certainly distresses me, particularly those that suffer for my fork. You however seem happy so long as the world bends to you. You also may be at ease with your thoughts; I only hope you don't present them so loudly in public, where I think you'd invariably look the ass.

As soon as your actions affect others you have a responsibility to judge them. If you walk down the street violently waving your arms around you have to take responsiblity for those you hit. When you eat meat, you must take accept that an animal has been bred and slaughtered, perhaps with much pain, for you. That said, if you have no interest in learning anything new on the subject I can't see why you're participating on here other than to play the tough-guy.

And Alkaline, whether or not I smoke being irrelevant, I certainly don't force animals to do it; if that's what you meant to ask?

[Soda Jerk]

Why would we close it? This is a good healthy discussion, to which you clearly just have nothing worthwhile to add. The thread will be fine if you just stay out of it.

Is it healthy though? To me it comes across as some self righteous veggies/veegs, belittling anyone who doesn't agree with their ultra-ethical, wholesome way of life, like the people who eat and enjoy meat are the scum on the underside of an uncleaned toilet. Counter-arguments to their preachy nonsense have been answered with a couple instances of "shut the fuck up" which is a meagre and ignorant way of dealing with an alternative viewpoint, which is just grating.

Can every veg/veeg stand up and say they live their life by opposing all forms of cruelty? Surely if a vegetarian is a vegetarian for ethical purposes, then still consuming dairy and eggs is contradicting the anti-cruelty ethical viewpoint? Same goes for if any veg/veeg is happy to wear Nike, shop at Primark/Gap etc, eat and drink Nestl, drink Coke and clean your house with Proctor and Gamble products (for example, as there are thousands more) - All sourced from manufacturers who are renowned for cruelty to other human beings.

I just can't entertain all this do-gooding, pedestal bilge when I could happily bet a house on the fact that most veg/veegs contradict their ethical wholesome lifestyle, several times, on a daily basis with other non animal products they consume.

The reason people don't respond positively or seriously is probably because they are fed up with being treated like some kind of sinner. I imagine most people on here don't have a problem in the slightest with Vegetarianism, but I also imagine they are pretty fed up of Vegetarians who just want to create a problem with non vegetarians. No one is going to sit here and say "Yeah, you're right. We're all bastards. Sorry". It's just fucking boring. It's The kind of preachy guff that PETA shove through your letterbox. We know all about it, and some of us care, and some don't, which have already been divided into Vegetarians and non Vegetarians. Isn't that enough? Apparently not.