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Jamie T tonight in Moshulu?


Johnny Mac

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I dont see how it can be thought that promoters expect other people to do their job for them? I cetainly dont expect that.

I DO think its lazy to put a gig on ab-music and assume that people will come without doing any other work so sometimes i dont concentrate on ab-music - so sue me / sack me for being so ignorant but IT IS NOT THE MAIN SOURCE OF PROMO! (last time ill say that!). So it occasionally gets forgotten about as after online ads, posters, national listings, free press, our own website itll get done. And yeah it doesnt take long but some days there are other things which get in the way!

I know its a great site because we can all discuss things and its amazing because we can have awesome discussions like this which is why the modern music world is great as its pretty interactive - how many office jobs exist where people discuss someones performance openly online and attack them - not many unless your in a public sphere i guess and it comes with the territory - so im prepared for it.

But dont tell me to do my job properly..unless your secretly a promoter and im mistaken - you have absolutely no fucking idea.I wouldnt come into millers and tell you how to deal with customers or how to run your day so give me a break.

- have you ever run a gig - be it with 50 people or 700?

- run a venue?

- dealt with a major touring band and all the preparation outside of the gig day that goes with it?

- planned and advanced a months worth of shows?

- ran a clubnight?

(most importantly)

- have you ever tried to do this all at once?

(and have a life)

Yes, I get paid for it but i also have a life to lead and i do as much as i can.

Im no martyr but ive put a fair shift into everything I do and when you have days like today reading this it doesnt seem worth it.

This one event wasnt put on this one site but apart from that it was (like all our other gigs) in several other places...(im not going to list them as ross already listed basically the same thing). So by using all these methods how are we relying on other people? Word of mouth is the hardest to achieve in aberdeen and if you can get it its great but i wouldnt rely on it.

Personally, i think if you think you can do a better job - do it - thats what the scenes about - people seeing what other people and either it inspiring them to do ot better or to do it because they see something positive in it and want to do the same.

Thats why i started DHC and thats why i got involved.

And ross has made a heap of valid points - were pally but were not best buds or anything so he didnt have to do that (thanks ross).

Hes an independent promoter and is different to me - i get paid a basic salary but without doing my additional DJing id be screwed.

When im not doing gigs at moshulu (monthly outside of work) i use my own money.

My fone bill is always around 100 plus from texting and haranging people for shows/organising / to come to shows, Ill lend bands ive never met backline of my own and put them up at my flat and ill lose personal money to do a band (when not promoting at moshulu) to get them up here - so if thats relying on other people to bail me out then its news to me and im ever so sorry.

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Yeah, thats fair enough but surely you shouldnt just sit back and rely on one source to let you know whats happening, or even one site.

I admit that there must have been an oversight when it came to putting the details of the gig on here, but if you read back then i think its totally wrong to have a go in the way he has, as far as i was reading its pretty much a personal dig!

there was nothing personal in any of what phil or anyone else has said, not in the sense of shitting over what steve does, just saying he is not very happy with the level of promotion done to encourage people to attend the shows, something quite a lot of people feel including myself, but this doesnt mean we're saying "steve your shit fuck off" just that we feel things were promoted better a few years ago, its a perfectly valid thing to say.

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Apologies if it came across as condescending but in the entire time you've been involved in the Aberdeen music scene in general i find it hard to believe that you genuinely didn't know that we have local gig posters. There's been spaces for putting them up since i was moved to Aberdeen at least (13 years ago). There are posters up for most venues that put on live music except your in there and Moshulu always used to put posters up in there.

The Streets gig was pretty well attended actually (i was there) and it wasn't marketed as a Streets gig (it was called the Beats Tour from memory). Granted, there's always things that slip under the radar.

Notice that this is not just a view held by myself. It is supported by quite a few other people on this particular site and in my social circle as well. We can't all be wrong.

Forgive me but Im literally never in Bruce Millers (havent been in years).

Ive always gone to rand b as Dave Falconer gave me discount and its on my way home from work. Although hes gone now - gutted.

The Streets gig is just an example but it should have sold out massively! they played the music hall for christs sake 6 months prior to it and sold it out! its four times the size of here.

Conversely to what i said about the lack of promotion, there are many examples of gigs being deader than expected and when your there the first thought is i wonder if this has been promoted properly and many times it has been - aberdeen is really unpredictable.

E.g - danananas last aberdeen show....100 people if that - half what i expected despite full promotion - aberdeen can be a hard one to crack.

I have a show coming up with a band that id like to think would do 150 plus - its sitting on 50 presale.

If it doesnt i lose 500 a week before going on holiday - im praying for a result.

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there was nothing personal in any of what phil or anyone else has said, not in the sense of shitting over what steve does, just saying he is not very happy with the level of promotion done to encourage people to attend the shows, something quite a lot of people feel including myself, but this doesnt mean we're saying "steve your shit fuck off" just that we feel things were promoted better a few years ago, its a perfectly valid thing to say.

I sure you never meant anything about the person, but some of those comments were pretty harsh and having a real go at the job he does. Fucking hell if you had worked your balls off doing your job and someone had come back with comments like what you guys had come out with, then would you not be pretty fucking pissed off? and comparing it to a previous promoter too! who i presume was perfect at his job. i honestly cant remember any difference? if i was looking for gigs to go too, i`d certainly look in more than one place.

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In today's world you can hardly move for adverts, they make up about 50% of magazines, there's newspapers, billboards, TV, radio, internet ads, pop-ups, spam, leaflets, junk mail etc. People are so used to having things crammed down their throats from advertisers that they have come to expect all the information to be thrown at them without having to actually look for it. Of course local promotors can't possibly be expected to do all those things, but it's just the society we live in these days.

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My point is that i think you were just being a wank, by having a go for your own amusement

Not in the slightest. I have felt like this for a while and i just personally feel that Moshulu is the guiltiest party. Other promoters attitudes sometimes leave a little to be desired as well so it's not just Steven/Moshulu. I guess it's unfair just to levy the criticism at him as he doesn't own the venue but i'm afraid he's the public face of Moshulu on here so he's always going to cop the flak while he's doing the job.

Any job is open to customer feedback and i appreciate no-one likes to be told where someone thinks (in their opinion) somebody is doing something wrong.

I appreciate it's a hard job and i have done it myself before, maybe not to the scale that Steven is doing it right now, but definitely on the same level as Ross. I've been kicking about in Aberdeen involved in the music scene for long enough to have seen how gigs are run and when gigs are run properly and poorly, i'm not some johnny come lately with no experience whatsoever and my viewpoint is as valid as anyone's.

Like i've said, it would be a totally different story if i was the only person that felt this way about promoting in Aberdeen, but i'm not. Feel free for all you promoters to make some sort of example out of me though as i'm obviously not entitled to comment.

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if i was looking for gigs to go too, i`d certainly look in more than one place.

I do, if i'm in one-up i have a look at the posters. There are posters up in Bruce Millers, i look at them. When i'm working at the Tunnels i look at posters. I keep an eye on the myspace pages/bulletins of bands that i like in the hope of seeing an Aberdeen date. I hear of gigs through word of mouth.

From all of those things i didn't know about the Jamie T gig. A post on here would've been helpful. End of story.

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I sure you never meant anything about the person, but some of those comments were pretty harsh and having a real go at the job he does. Fucking hell if you had worked your balls off doing your job and someone had come back with comments like what you guys had come out with, then would you not be pretty fucking pissed off? and comparing it to a previous promoter too! who i presume was perfect at his job. i honestly cant remember any difference? if i was looking for gigs to go too, i`d certainly look in more than one place.

if you work in the public sector then expect a lot of shit from people who are not happy, im sure steven realises this, its not a personal attack its just a few of us think things were ran better before, thats our opinion. I can feel where Phil is coming from, its not just Moshulu thats this Issue they just maybe happen to be the biggest promoter in the city and we expect more from them.

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From all of those things i didn't know about the Jamie T gig. A post on here would've been helpful. End of story.

HAHA good point!

just didnt like the way you put it across earlier in the thread, i have no desire to be involved in any type of promotion because it must be a major headache at times, and hats off to the guys who do it. I dont think about the effort thats gone in to putting a show on when im supping a pint and tapping my feet, or shaking my head depending on the quality on show!

I have to say that i have never noticed promotion in Aberdeen being worse or better than any other time. Or more to the point whenever im staying in any other city throughout the UK, i go through pretty much the same means that have been listed here.

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Anyone who knows me will know I have a general problem in life being over-sensitive but i think if you get questioned on something you should stick up for yourself. Something i dont do enough id say with certain things but hey ho.

And i agree with the point that there are other venues in aberdeen worse than us for promotion but im not into mud slinging or name slating so thats all i have to say...

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I would agree that a lot of the time there is barely any point in putting up a post for gigs on here. Let's be honest, there is a limited number of regular users on this site, and most of us are in bands. Ab-Mus doesn't represent a cross-section of the Aberdeen population, in fact it represents a very specific group of people. It's usually fairly predictable which gigs are going to go down well with the regular users and which aren't. It's also true that there's a good amount of back-slapping going on, whilst new users are often alienated by arsehole-ish posts totally taking the piss, be it their spelling, their views, whatever. This thread is a good example of such behaviour; the few good points that have been made have been tempered by offensive and patronising posts. A few people really ought to grow up.

Don't get me wrong, this is a great site; it's a good laugh, good for information, good for finding out about gigs and good for a host of other reasons. But I absolutely agree with Steven that there is a definite clique of people and a lot of gig posts are totally ignored. Anyway, my point is that a massive chunk of the gig-going public in Aberdeen don't use it, so I agree that it should hardly be the first port of call when it comes to promotion.

There a hundreds of Moshulu posters up at the uni campus and at various points around town. The Moshulu website is a bit pish, but it has all the gigs up on it, doesn't it? I agree that it is the promoter's responsibility to go out and promote things, but at some point there has to be a willingness for the potential gig-goer to make at least a tiny bit of effort to find out about future dates. It's a bit much to complain, then say "Well, I don't go into town, go into Moshulu, check the website, pick up any of the plethora of free music press that litter shops all over the city and I hate being told of gigs by being messaged on Facebook, so... YOU'RE A SHITE PROMOTER!" Get a haud.

Also, as an aside, if anyone thinks Ross from AGP isn't doing his job properly then they are either total ignorant or certifiably mental.

...phew.

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I would agree that a lot of the time there is barely any point in putting up a post for gigs on here. Let's be honest, there is a limited number of regular users on this site, and most of us are in bands. Ab-Mus doesn't represent a cross-section of the Aberdeen population, in fact it represents a very specific group of people. It's usually fairly predictable which gigs are going to go down well with the regular users and which aren't. It's also true that there's a good amount of back-slapping going on, whilst new users are often alienated by arsehole-ish posts totally taking the piss, be it their spelling, their views, whatever. This thread is a good example of such behaviour; the few good points that have been made have been tempered by offensive and patronising posts. A few people really ought to grow up.

Don't get me wrong, this is a great site; it's a good laugh, good for information, good for finding out about gigs and good for a host of other reasons. But I absolutely agree with Steven that there is a definite clique of people and a lot of gig posts are totally ignored. Anyway, my point is that a massive chunk of the gig-going public in Aberdeen don't use it, so I agree that it should hardly be the first port of call when it comes to promotion.

There a hundreds of Moshulu posters up at the uni campus and at various points around town. The Moshulu website is a bit pish, but it has all the gigs up on it, doesn't it? I agree that it is the promoter's responsibility to go out and promote things, but at some point there has to be a willingness for the potential gig-goer to make at least a tiny bit of effort to find out about future dates. It's a bit much to complain, then say "Well, I don't go into town, go into Moshulu, check the website, pick up any of the plethora of free music press that litter shops all over the city and I hate being told of gigs by being messaged on Facebook, so... YOU'RE A SHITE PROMOTER!" Get a haud.

Also, as an aside, if anyone thinks Ross from AGP isn't doing his job properly then they are either total ignorant or certifiably mental.

...phew.

I'm assuming you've read the whole thread properly before posting here so i apologise if i'm repeating myself again..

And yes, i take back what i said about Ross. I hadn't associated him with AGP until later in the thread so apologies to him on saying he doesn't do anything (i appreciate he puts a fair bit of effort into keeping people on this site abreast of his gigs) though that doesn't mean that i agree with everything he's said.

There are categorically NOT "hundreds" of Moshulu posters up around town (inside Moshulu is a totally different story). I don't go to university so i hardly think i can be penalised for that.

I wholeheartedly disagree with what you've said about this site. Whilst there may only be a small proportion of the sum total of the registered users on this site who post regularly i'm damn sure that there are a lot of people who don't post but still read posts. The site is not limited to people who only like Indie or Metal and there is a reasonable cross-section of people on here with large enough social groups that if they've seen a gig listed on here would pass on the information to people who don't post on here. No one is saying that Aberdeen Music should be the "first port of call" but ignoring it doesn't make much sense now does it? Also, just because a gig post on here hasn't got a million replies one shouldn't assume that it means that there isn't anyone interested in the gig.

I will re-iterate where i get gig info from for your benefit:

1. This site (It's an Aberdeen based music site after all with a free gig-listing service)

2. Posters in Bruce Millers, The Tunnels, One-Up (if i'm in there).

3. Myspace if a band puts up their tour details or posts a blog/bulletin.

4. Emails from artists who's mailing-lists i'm signed up to.

5. Word of mouth. I know a lot of people in Aberdeen's music scene and most people know what sort of music i listen to. I'm surprised that this particular gig didn't get round to me from other people in my social circle who have nothing to do with this site. Having said that of the three people i would've expected to have heard of this gig all three had no idea it was on at all. Maybe the multitude of posters round Aberdeen had slipped them by too.

I hardly put "no effort" into finding out about gigs. Not all people want to have a social networking account solely for the purpose of tracking down gig information. That is why i have a myspace account (though as was previously discussed Moshulu don't have access to their myspace account so can't update that- not really my fault and you could argue that it would take them a few minutes to set up a new one...).

There's been a fair bit of tit for tat in this thread and there's none of the parties involved who are less responsible than the next (myself included) but it's hardly been an insult slinging pointless quest for internet props in the manner you've described.

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if you work in the public sector then expect a lot of shit from people who are not happy, im sure steven realises this, its not a personal attack its just a few of us think things were ran better before, thats our opinion. I can feel where Phil is coming from, its not just Moshulu thats this Issue they just maybe happen to be the biggest promoter in the city and we expect more from them.

[pedant]

Public service, not public sector.

[/pedant]

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See, why couldn't you have posted that in the first place, instead of calling people morons and telling people they can't do their jobs?

There are categorically NOT "hundreds" of Moshulu posters up around town (inside Moshulu is a totally different story). I don't go to university so i hardly think i can be penalised for that.

I said there are hundreds at uni, which there are. There are also a healthy amount around town; about as many as anybody else puts up. It's a bit much to assume that because you can't see any in Bruce Millars, that must mean there are hardly any anywhere. Also, I'd say that postering is probably a harder job for Moshulu compared with some other prmoters because of the sheer number of gigs on. Maybe a monthly listings poster like The Tunnels have would be a good idea.

No one is saying that Aberdeen Music should be the "first port of call" but ignoring it doesn't make much sense now does it

I agree. So does Steven Milne it would appear, which is probably why he apologised for forgetting to put one up. As he said, you can only do so many things at once so I'm sure that occasionally things slip through the net. The truth is that the vast majority of Moshulu shows are publicised on this website.

the site is not limited to people who only like Indie or Metal

I know, I didn't say it was. Yet it is interesting that you picked up on those genres; clearly they are the most popular around here. I guess what I mean is that there is more than a slight whiff of musical snobbery about some gigs that are anounced here, which would discourage people from posting about similar gigs in the future. We've all done it. I would say that this site is definetely pretty niche in that it's in effect a bit of a closed community and can be pretty hostile. This is probably true of the Aberdeen music 'scene' in general, and probably why we don't do so well in the grand scheme of things.

and there's none of the parties involved who are less responsible than the next

Umm, I'd disagree with this too. Everyone else was being pretty measured; I don't really understand why you totally exploded in a blazing storm of rage earlier in the thread. We're all on the same side, after all.

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