Calderwood

[Guest idol_wild]

Absolutely nothing in my mind. Both teams are at around the same level. Dundee United consistently make more money than Aberdeen each season as well.

Essentially, I agree completely. But Aberdeen do draw larger average gates, which is one indicator of what measures the 'size' of a club.

I'd also just like to say that I am delighted that Dundee United are becoming a better, stronger side. It's healthy for the league as they regularly enjoy taking points off the Old Firm, which is always good to see regardless.

[Alkaline]

Essentially, I agree completely. But Aberdeen do draw larger average gates, which is one indicator of what measures the 'size' of a club.

I'd also just like to say that I am delighted that Dundee United are becoming a better, stronger side. It's healthy for the league as they regularly enjoy taking points off the Old Firm, which is always good to see regardless.

Pittodrie's capacity is quite a bit bigger than that of Tannadice. Also, Aberdeen's average attendance is only 371 better than Dundee United's. I would say that yes, in the past, Aberdeen have been a bigger club but that isn't the case now and like i said, United make more money each year and have done for a few years actually.

[offramp]

Dundee United consistently make more money than Aberdeen each season as well.

Really???

[Alphas]

United make more money each year and have done for a few years actually.

I thought the Dons made far more than Utd? Not sure of exact figures but in terms of turnover I was actually surprised at how little Dundee United actually made. Pretty sure the Dons exceeded a turnover of 10 million last year due to the UEFA Cup run.

[calum]

Pittodrie's capacity is quite a bit bigger than that of Tannadice. Also, Aberdeen's average attendance is only 371 better than Dundee United's.

Where are you getting that statistic from?

[Alkaline]

Where are you getting that statistic from?

Haha, shit i misread a row. My bad. I blame my colourblindness for that one as it was written in red across the line

[Alkaline]

Really???

I have no figures at hand but i would be very surprised if Aberdeen's operating costs and debt levels were better than United's. It would be fairly close though i'd wager.

And for the other guy, turnover is not the same as profit really and you didn't make that much from the UEFA cup run i'm sure.

[offramp]

I have no figures at hand but i would be very surprised if Aberdeen's operating costs and debt levels were better than United's. It would be fairly close though i'd wager.

OK - so you went from making a bold statement of fact, to random guesswork.

I don't particularly care like - just wondered if you had figures to back it up.

[Alkaline]

OK - so you went from making a bold statement of fact, to random guesswork.

I don't particularly care like - just wondered if you had figures to back it up.

Yeah, i'd actually like to see the profit and loss figures for both. I'm sure i saw a set of figures last season relating to the season before where United were better off but evidently looking for SPL P/L figures is needle in haystack-like.

[offramp]

Well, here are some AFC figures, courtesy of Willie Miller. I guess these are only operating costs and don't take into account debt servicing.

Aberdeen | News | Club News | Club News | Message to the fans

[Hugh_Jazz]

Well, here are some AFC figures, courtesy of Willie Miller. I guess these are only operating costs and don't take into account debt servicing.

Aberdeen | News | Club News | Club News | Message to the fans

I think that was a good article by Willie. No bullshit, and plenty of straight facts and common sense which to me, highlight just how misguided any notion of sacking JC is.

[Alphas]

I have no figures at hand but i would be very surprised if Aberdeen's operating costs and debt levels were better than United's. It would be fairly close though i'd wager.

And for the other guy, turnover is not the same as profit really and you didn't make that much from the UEFA cup run i'm sure.

Didn't realise you were meaning in terms of profit, even then not sure Utd fair better than the Dons. Probably both shite to be honest! Pricewaterhousecooper do the annual SPL reports, would imagine they'll publish them on their website.

[Captain America]

Didn't realise you were meaning in terms of profit, even then not sure Utd fair better than the Dons. Probably both shite to be honest! Pricewaterhousecooper do the annual SPL reports, would imagine they'll publish them on their website.

Dundee United records first profit in over a decade - euFootball.BIZ - football (soccer) business news

This gives some idea of the profit we made in 08.

[The Milner]

I think that was a good article by Willie. No bullshit, and plenty of straight facts and common sense which to me, highlight just how misguided any notion of sacking JC is.

exactly, but the problem is even with the stats these people still think he is a disaster, these morons who preferred getting humped and losing shit loads of money, but getting to two cup finals, finishing bottom of the league and maybe playing some nice football every third or fourth game.

[Lemonade]

Willie Miller can throw statistics at me all day for all I care. You can spin figures to show anything you like, but statistics don't change the fact that our squad are absolutely useless and our manager is a balloon. Statistics don't change the fact that we can't beat a division 1 club at home, and statistics don't change the fact that the football we play is absolutely horrendous. Statistics don't change the fact that Darren Mackie is not a goalscorer, or that Jamie Smith spends more time on the treatment table than on the pitch, or that our captain is completely incapable of actually showing any leadership. Statistics don't change the fact that 10,000 people will be quite rightly shouting "Jimmy Jimmy get to fuck" at the next home game. He can take his tanning bed and fuck off back to Dunfermline in Division 1.

[The Milner]

typical attitude from aberdeen fans, never mind.

[-matthEw-]

Milner, or Hugh-Jazz, I'm not having a go here, but how often do you go to games these days? I genuinely don't think you're aware of just how bad it is at times. I'm talking not just unattractive football, but to the point where you feel physically pained at watching it. Just nothing at all going on in front of you remotely entertaining.

Now I know its a results business bla bla, but if you peddle this kind of attrocious football, as Calderwood has for nigh on 5 years now, then you walk a thin wire. Fans are a lot less forgiving of bad results if every week you're watching crap.

Most JMG'ers that I know are season ticket holders who are there every other week. There a quite a few die-hards that have barely missed a game for decades that have packed it in.

And whilst I appreciate Miller taking the time to respond to the criticism, (ignoring the seriously hefty spin he's put on the accounts, as well as the creative wording throughout) he is plainly wrong about the 3 cup games at the root of the problem.

At the end of the day, I'm not as fiecely in the Jimmy Must Go camp as these posts would have you believe. But thats more down to the cost of getting rid/lack of trust in the board to find a replacement. Jimmy came in and did a fantastic job and steadied the ship and got us back up the right end of the table. He's going backwards now imo, and has been for a while (Euro run aside) which should set alarm bells ringing for anyone.

[The Milner]

Milner, or Hugh-Jazz, I'm not having a go here, but how often do you go to games these days? I genuinely don't think you're aware of just how bad it is at times. I'm talking not just unattractive football, but to the point where you feel physically pained at watching it. Just nothing at all going on in front of you remotely entertaining.

Now I know its a results business bla bla, but if you peddle this kind of attrocious football, as Calderwood has for nigh on 5 years now, then you walk a thin wire. Fans are a lot less forgiving of bad results if every week you're watching crap.

Most JMG'ers that I know are season ticket holders who are there every other week. There a quite a few die-hards that have barely missed a game for decades that have packed it in.

And whilst I appreciate Miller taking the time to respond to the criticism, (ignoring the seriously hefty spin he's put on the accounts, as well as the creative wording throughout) he is plainly wrong about the 3 cup games at the root of the problem.

At the end of the day, I'm not as fiecely in the Jimmy Must Go camp as these posts would have you believe. But thats more down to the cost of getting rid/lack of trust in the board to find a replacement. Jimmy came in and did a fantastic job and steadied the ship and got us back up the right end of the table. He's going backwards now imo, and has been for a while (Euro run aside) which should set alarm bells ringing for anyone.

Most home games, my brother is a season ticket holder and so is the guy who sits next to me at work and they both agree with what i say, thats not to say they are speaking for all aberdeen fans or anything like that.

It just seems like if jimmy had us in a cup final this season there would be no call for his head whatsoever, but because he has been let down by players yet again its time for him to go. No one seems to realise that if we sack jimmy there will be no money whatsoever to buy anyone with, we would have to give him more to leave than we could spend on one player at the moment. So this "shit" squad wont be improved the new manager would have no money and we would go backwards, more so than people seem to think we are now. Weigh it up, sack the manager and start again with no money, OR back the manager and help him get the best out of a limited squad with very limited money to improve it.

[Lemonade]

I think everyone seems to realise that if we sack Jimmy we'll have no money for a new manager to spend, BUT I think it's a risk most people are willing to take. Virtually every Dons fan I know wants rid of him. You might be happy to scrape into the top 6 every year but we ought to be doing better than that, and I want more from the team. You guys sound like rugby fans. "Well we might not have won today but hey that's not what's important, we all had a lovely day out".

[The Milner]

Where do you come out with this nonesense? Scrape into the top 6? we're hardly stuggling to make the top 6 this year or the year before or the year before that..........

OK so we sack Jimmy, how does the new manager improve the squad if we have used all our money to pay jimmy off?

At the end of the day jimmy wont be sack i can 100% guarantee that, so we are left with the choice of constantly harrassing him and the players or get behind him and help him get us back into europe next season. But i guess most people think that not getting into europe and getting rid of jimmy will be better for the club................

[-matthEw-]

Most home games, my brother is a season ticket holder and so is the guy who sits next to me at work and they both agree with what i say, thats not to say they are speaking for all aberdeen fans or anything like that.

It just seems like if jimmy had us in a cup final this season there would be no call for his head whatsoever, but because he has been let down by players yet again its time for him to go. No one seems to realise that if we sack jimmy there will be no money whatsoever to buy anyone with, we would have to give him more to leave than we could spend on one player at the moment. So this "shit" squad wont be improved the new manager would have no money and we would go backwards, more so than people seem to think we are now. Weigh it up, sack the manager and start again with no money, OR back the manager and help him get the best out of a limited squad with very limited money to improve it.

I think if we'd got to the cup final or were still in it, the cries for his head would be a lot quieter certainly. But the cup games certainly give the fans that have an agenda to want him out leverage (I hate those fans, the ones with the agenda to get rid of the manager rather than an agenda for a successful dons team).

But the players let Jimmy down and to an extent I agree, but Jimmy also let those players down. Over the two legs there was so much wrong with the tactics and line-up and substitutions. Whilst we all think we make brilliant managers from the stands, there was honestly so much wrong with the set-up over 220 minutes of football it was worrying. It would be far less worrying if the same situation often throws itself up in the league and we can't produce anything.

Maybe its a case of the players bottling it and being too scared to express themselves, but I really don't think it is. You see the confusion on the pitch amongst the players! That really isn't healthy. Also, how often do you see Aberdeen start a game brightly, playing no-bad, perhaps even taking the lead, only for Jimmy to shuffle the pack in order to counteract the 'threat' of some Billy No-Mark for the likes of Kilmarnock and suddenly we've invited them onto us for the rest of the 70 minutes whilst we are treated to an absolutely shocker of a game before we inevitably concede a goal. One of the main criticisms of Calderwood is him changing his team to counteract the opposition. He does it against everyone, and whilst it may have been a good approach in his 1st season and perhaps got us where we are now, would you not agree we are in a strong enough position where such tactics do far more harm than good?

[The Milner]

I think if we'd got to the cup final or were still in it, the cries for his head would be a lot quieter certainly. But the cup games certainly give the fans that have an agenda to want him out leverage (I hate those fans, the ones with the agenda to get rid of the manager rather than an agenda for a successful dons team).

But the players let Jimmy down and to an extent I agree, but Jimmy also let those players down. Over the two legs there was so much wrong with the tactics and line-up and substitutions. Whilst we all think we make brilliant managers from the stands, there was honestly so much wrong with the set-up over 220 minutes of football it was worrying. It would be far less worrying if the same situation often throws itself up in the league and we can't produce anything.

Maybe its a case of the players bottling it and being too scared to express themselves, but I really don't think it is. You see the confusion on the pitch amongst the players! That really isn't healthy. Also, how often do you see Aberdeen start a game brightly, playing no-bad, perhaps even taking the lead, only for Jimmy to shuffle the pack in order to counteract the 'threat' of some Billy No-Mark for the likes of Kilmarnock and suddenly we've invited them onto us for the rest of the 70 minutes whilst we are treated to an absolutely shocker of a game before we inevitably concede a goal. One of the main criticisms of Calderwood is him changing his team to counteract the opposition. He does it against everyone, and whilst it may have been a good approach in his 1st season and perhaps got us where we are now, would you not agree we are in a strong enough position where such tactics do far more harm than good?

jimmy has made some shocking decisions and his continuance with players like makie and foster really annoys me, but lets not forget the first season he came makie was awesome and the fans loved him, he has seen that and most likely thinks he can get it out of him again. As for tactics, yes he gets it wrong like most managers do but he also gets it right, Dnipro, Copenhagen, Celtic at home this season. It does annoy me how we sit back when we go into the lead ive never understood that, but then would that be a player mentality as much as him, at the end of the day its the players playing the game.

It just all reminds me of the Alex Smith crap, no real idea of what we do if we did sack jimmy but the unrelenting call for his head. I do honestly think tho without the problems in the cup 90% of dons fans would be quite happy with the job jimmy has done, but as usual the people against the manager get more vocal leverage than those who want him to stay.

[Hugh_Jazz]

I think if we'd got to the cup final or were still in it, the cries for his head would be a lot quieter certainly. But the cup games certainly give the fans that have an agenda to want him out leverage (I hate those fans, the ones with the agenda to get rid of the manager rather than an agenda for a successful dons team).

But the players let Jimmy down and to an extent I agree, but Jimmy also let those players down. Over the two legs there was so much wrong with the tactics and line-up and substitutions. Whilst we all think we make brilliant managers from the stands, there was honestly so much wrong with the set-up over 220 minutes of football it was worrying. It would be far less worrying if the same situation often throws itself up in the league and we can't produce anything.

Maybe its a case of the players bottling it and being too scared to express themselves, but I really don't think it is. You see the confusion on the pitch amongst the players! That really isn't healthy. Also, how often do you see Aberdeen start a game brightly, playing no-bad, perhaps even taking the lead, only for Jimmy to shuffle the pack in order to counteract the 'threat' of some Billy No-Mark for the likes of Kilmarnock and suddenly we've invited them onto us for the rest of the 70 minutes whilst we are treated to an absolutely shocker of a game before we inevitably concede a goal. One of the main criticisms of Calderwood is him changing his team to counteract the opposition. He does it against everyone, and whilst it may have been a good approach in his 1st season and perhaps got us where we are now, would you not agree we are in a strong enough position where such tactics do far more harm than good?

Tactics, whether they're good, bad or indifferent, are no excuse for half-decent footballers losing the ability to pass a ball 5 yards, or making avoidable blunders in the penalty box. That's the sort of nonsense I commonly see after we've taken the lead, or have started a game well.

Like you, I don't always agree with the formation, or team selection, or which player is being played in what position (although there have been many instances when he's got it spot on), but I honestly think that individual errors are far more responsible for losing us games, and that is down to the players.

Half the time, we go into the lead, our passing turns to shite, we can't get the ball out of defence, and eventually somebody blunders, and we lose a goal. That's nothing to do with tactics IMO.

[Gus Chamber]

He can take his tanning bed and fuck off back to Dunfermline in Division 1.

Keep him, we wouldn't have the bastard back on principle...

[-matthEw-]

Where do you come out with this nonesense? Scrape into the top 6? we're hardly stuggling to make the top 6 this year or the year before or the year before that..........

OK so we sack Jimmy, how does the new manager improve the squad if we have used all our money to pay jimmy off?

At the end of the day jimmy wont be sack i can 100% guarantee that, so we are left with the choice of constantly harrassing him and the players or get behind him and help him get us back into europe next season. But i guess most people think that not getting into europe and getting rid of jimmy will be better for the club................

Erm last season we had to win a game against Falkirk to secure top 6 in the last game before the split, as well as rely on a handful of other results to go our way in the weeks before it. Two season before that we scraped in again. And this season we're only 4 points ahead of 6th and 7th and both Hibs and Motherwell on far better form for us and personally the split can't come soon enough as I fear we'd drop out of it if it was another couple of games.

So yeah, I'd say its fairly obvious we're struggling for top 6 and under Calderwood we continually have. Credit does go to him therefore for getting us in every time, as particularly last season, we went on a good run of form at exactly the time it mattered and in the end were unlucky not to secure 3rd.