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OK, a few points that you're going to have to flesh out a bit more:

1) Fantastic football under Ebbe

Is this the same fantastic football that saw us routinely murdered by the OF and rock bottom of the league for nearly 3 months? If you forget about the 2 cup finals, JC's record is streets ahead of Ebbes.....90 wins vs 68 losses (as of mid-Jan), compared to 54 wins and 68 losses for Ebbe. At the time, Alex Miller apart, Ebbe's results were the worst since the 1950s.

2) JC benefited from Pele's squad

That'll be the squad that Pele could hardly buy a win with? 23 wins vs 32 losses. Guess that means that JC must have turned things round. But let's not give him any praise for that.

3) JC has signed established SPL players, that didn't require him to cast the net

That's a good thing isn't it? Better to sign solid pros, who you know can handle the pace of our game. I think JC signings have been excellent, for the most part.

4) Non-SPL stars have been shite

What about Aluko, McDonald, Vidal, Smith. I think they've been quite good.

5) Treading water for next 2 years if we don't get shot of JC

Give me one shred of evidence that we won't tread water if we do get rid of him? Or go backwards? Haven't you heard, there's a recession on. Football in Scotland is going to feel the pinch over the coming months, and it is just totally unrealistic to expect that a new manager will be able to make sweeping changes.

6) Shoestring budget

We can split hairs all day long about who has had the most money, but ultimately neither Pele or JC have had much. JC has had to deal almost exclusively in the free transfers market, or in loan players.....so please don't try and imply that he's had a fortune to spend. He just hasn't.

7) Utter contempt for the fans

Evidence? Every time I hear JC interviewed, I only hear him praising our support. He supports our right to complain when things are going wrong. He might not be as media-friendly as say, Ebbe, but I think he knows fine how good the fans are....he certainly says as much.

This whole debate has come about because of our Cup form. But our league form over a number of years has been pretty decent, and given that this is our bread and butter, I think JC deserves a bit more praise than he's getting. Granted, it's not always scintillating stuff, but he's been far more consistent than any of his recent predecessors. Personally, I'd rather have us challenging for Europe via the league every year, than our league form being all over the place, and having the odd good cup run.

I'm confident that our Cup form will come good eventually, but sacking a manager with a good record will not help us....especially given the likelihood of us getting a decent replacement.

exactly every point there is spot on.

What grinds me is what good will it do replacing jimmy this close to the end of the season? Do people really think McGee or Levin would drop their chase for europe to come to aberdeen? I very much doubt either would have the slightest interest in managing aberdeen at any point, especially when they see the way the fans treat JC. Three bad results in the cups and everyone wants to hang the guy, nevermind the league finishes every year, and dont give me that shite about preferring a cup run over a league place, fans would very quickly turn if the league results were rubbish even if we did well in both cups. The league is what is important not two diddy cups that mean very little now anyway.

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exactly every point there is spot on.

What grinds me is what good will it do replacing jimmy this close to the end of the season? Do people really think McGee or Levin would drop their chase for europe to come to aberdeen? I very much doubt either would have the slightest interest in managing aberdeen at any point, especially when they see the way the fans treat JC. Three bad results in the cups and everyone wants to hang the guy, nevermind the league finishes every year, and dont give me that shite about preferring a cup run over a league place, fans would very quickly turn if the league results were rubbish even if we did well in both cups. The league is what is important not two diddy cups that mean very little now anyway.

It's not just the cup results though, it's the utterly terrible performances in the league, the 90 minutes of absolute dross, players looking like they don't give a fuck, our inconstistency, how we can play Rangers off the park one week then lose to Falkirk the next, the baffling tactics, the insistence in playing players out of position, loyalty to players who obviously aren't up to the job.... We might be finished in not bad positions, but we're playing shite. This stuff is listed all the way through this thread that you just seem to be ignoring, nobody has said anywhere they want him dunted just because of the cup results.

If I had my way Jimmy would be fired immediately. Out of a cannon. Into the North Sea.

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Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree
If I had my way Jimmy would be fired immediately. Out of a cannon. Into the North Sea.

The engineering in this city is good, but a cannon that size is unrealistic.

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It's not just the cup results though, it's the utterly terrible performances in the league, the 90 minutes of absolute dross, players looking like they don't give a fuck, our inconstistency, how we can play Rangers off the park one week then lose to Falkirk the next, the baffling tactics, the insistence in playing players out of position, loyalty to players who obviously aren't up to the job.... This stuff is listed all the way through this thread that you seem to be ignoring, nobody has said anywhere they want him dunted just because of the cup results.

If I had my way Jimmy would be fired immediately. Out of a cannon. Into the North Sea.

yes because we were so consistant under Ebbe/Pele/Miller......

You speak like this is new and jimmy is the only one who has these problems with aberdeen, it has been going on for over ten years. We dont have great football players so we will never play Arsenal style football, we cant afford great players.

Im not ignoring anything im just pointing out this is typicall aberdeen mentallity, fans think we should be doing better than anyone else in the league outside of the old firm for whatever reason but its nonsense, as was pointed out we do not spend the most outside of the old firm, we do not consistantly have bigger crowds than hearts/utd and sadly we all still live in 1983.

Jimmy has done the best job up here for the best part of a decade, he got us back into europe and has had consistant results in the league overall, yes he makes decisions other folk dont agree with, like every manager in the league, christ strachan gets hammered every week for it yet he has won league and cups every season he has been at celtic. We dont see what goes on day in day out at the club, who's mind looks like its in the right place. who is training well, who's attitude is in the right place, there is a hell of a lot more to picking a team than just selecting who you think are your best players.

The only thing i agree on is that some of the players should go, but then where the hell does he get replacements? There is no money to spend and Aberdeen is not an appealing option for players like it or not we are not a big club and no good players want to be up so far up north.

again i ask, who at this point in the season would we get in to secure a european place next year? Name me one good manager avaliable at this moment you feel would be upto the job, keeping in mind that %99 of managers in a job would not leave their clubs at this time of year.

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I'm not saying changing the manager now will guarantee us Europe this season. But i don't think a new manager would do any worse with this group of players than JC. Plus getting a new face in now would give him the chance to have a clear out in the summer and have plenty time to build a squad for next season, rather than having to start another season with Jimmy's players. It's better to change the manager before the summer transfer window opens rather than after it shuts surely?

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Of course as you say, persuading someone to move at this team of year would be a challenge. Eric Black might consider it. I'd take Levein in a second but he wouldn't come. Paul Lambert might fancy it. I'd take John Hughes, for his style of play, with better players at his disposal i think it would work for him. Or Jim Jeffries, even though he's a dour cunt. You never know who would apply tho. Inverness got Ossy Ardiles FFS!

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Wirelessly posted (SonyEricssonK770i/R8BC Browser/NetFront/3.3 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1)

Of course as you say, persuading someone to move at this team of year would be a challenge. Eric Black might consider it. I'd take Levein in a second but he wouldn't come. Paul Lambert might fancy it. I'd take John Hughes, for his style of play, with better players at his disposal i think it would work for him. Or Jim Jeffries, even though he's a dour cunt. You never know who would apply tho. Inverness got Ossy Ardiles FFS!

Jim Jeffries?! I'd rather have Jim Davidson.

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Bin the bam! And this time last week I was in Pittodrie watching the worst game of football I've ever witnessed in 23 years of being alive. An absolute shambles. He should of been sacked 6 days ago

So we weren't playing worse when the Old Firm were routinely thumping us by five goals every time we played them, no?

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So we weren't playing worse when the Old Firm were routinely thumping us by five goals every time we played them, no?

its ok it would appear winning league games is no longer important, playing good football and maybe getting to a cup final is more important than finishing in the top half of the table, people would rather see us humped by the old firm as long as we play nice football.

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OK, a few points that you're going to have to flesh out a bit more:

1) Fantastic football under Ebbe

Is this the same fantastic football that saw us routinely murdered by the OF and rock bottom of the league for nearly 3 months? If you forget about the 2 cup finals, JC's record is streets ahead of Ebbes.....90 wins vs 68 losses (as of mid-Jan), compared to 54 wins and 68 losses for Ebbe. At the time, Alex Miller apart, Ebbe's results were the worst since the 1950s.

2) JC benefited from Pele's squad

That'll be the squad that Pele could hardly buy a win with? 23 wins vs 32 losses. Guess that means that JC must have turned things round. But let's not give him any praise for that.

3) JC has signed established SPL players, that didn't require him to cast the net

That's a good thing isn't it? Better to sign solid pros, who you know can handle the pace of our game. I think JC signings have been excellent, for the most part.

4) Non-SPL stars have been shite

What about Aluko, McDonald, Vidal, Smith. I think they've been quite good.

5) Treading water for next 2 years if we don't get shot of JC

Give me one shred of evidence that we won't tread water if we do get rid of him? Or go backwards? Haven't you heard, there's a recession on. Football in Scotland is going to feel the pinch over the coming months, and it is just totally unrealistic to expect that a new manager will be able to make sweeping changes.

6) Shoestring budget

We can split hairs all day long about who has had the most money, but ultimately neither Pele or JC have had much. JC has had to deal almost exclusively in the free transfers market, or in loan players.....so please don't try and imply that he's had a fortune to spend. He just hasn't.

7) Utter contempt for the fans

Evidence? Every time I hear JC interviewed, I only hear him praising our support. He supports our right to complain when things are going wrong. He might not be as media-friendly as say, Ebbe, but I think he knows fine how good the fans are....he certainly says as much.

This whole debate has come about because of our Cup form. But our league form over a number of years has been pretty decent, and given that this is our bread and butter, I think JC deserves a bit more praise than he's getting. Granted, it's not always scintillating stuff, but he's been far more consistent than any of his recent predecessors. Personally, I'd rather have us challenging for Europe via the league every year, than our league form being all over the place, and having the odd good cup run.

I'm confident that our Cup form will come good eventually, but sacking a manager with a good record will not help us....especially given the likelihood of us getting a decent replacement.

1. Trust me, I'm not a great Ebbe lover, and I hate the way losing games become almost a 'fun' thing amongst our support during his reign. But, and maybe this is because I had just started going to games, but I loved watching us play. Whilst I would pick league position over being entertained any day, it is a lot easier to say that when your not inside Pittodrie watching a dull, dull 90 minutes after giving up the best part of 25...every.other.week.

2. Again, I made my stance on Paterson pretty clear, he was hopeless. But, personally, I've never seen any single manager as unlucky with injuries. Its normally a poor excuse but one look at the sides Paterson was forced to field and you'll see this was an exception. Plus the aforementioned budget slashing. JC HAS had a fortune to spend in comparison(4th largest budget in Scotland, equivalent to our size). Paterson had to seriously downsize then maintain a squad under a wage cap imposed by Milne. And stop putting words in my mouth to suit your argument, I have plenty of praise for Jimmy, especially in his first season. Whilst the Paterson era was one to forget, for me it represents something we simply had to go through in order to come out the other side. Which to be fair, we have.

3. Yes signing established SPL players is a good thing, and one I hope to see continue. But at the end of the day, Paterson just could not have signed those players with the budget he had. No way. I think the wage cap was rumoured to be something like 3,000 a week, of which we could afford to pay only 1 or 2 players. Its generally accepted that the wage structure that came in when Willie came in allowed ou top earners 5,000 a week.

It doesn't require any real talent to see that Scott Severin is out of contract with his bridges burnt at Hearts and no offers from England that he'd be a corker of a signing. Whilst I like the fact we can now sign players of that supposed calibre, I would stop before giving Jimmy any real credit for it.

4. McDonald is one of my favourite players, but in my mind again he's hardly an 'off the radar' type player - although one personally that I'd forgotten about and hadn't heard of for a few years so credit to JC for that one. Smith I included in my established SPL list - a 1st team regular in one of the most successful Celtic sides who'd only been away for 2 years. Again, I think most managers in Scotland would've been aware of Smith's desire to return to Scotland, only Jimmy had the wages. Aluko was handed to us on a plate by Eric Black. And Vidal looked pretty nifty on the ball and could find a pass so natural has no place in a Calderwood Dons team and is dumped for Ricky Foster. o_O

I'm not giving Jimmy NO credit for these signings. He clearly had his part to play. But I see no evidence that any other manager even remotely worth his salt couldn't have made them.

5. Treading water comment - I say this because after Jimmy's arrival we have been at the exact same stage (often worse) that his 1st season. We've been treading water for 4 years since he came. So where as I have no shred of evidence to support that we will be for the next 2 years, I think its logical to see we will be. The fact that I have no faith in him in the transfer market OR his ability to motiviate players or learn from his own mistakes backs this up. We may go backwards you are right. But equally we may push on and cement 3rd like Hearts did for long periods. I think we've got the 3rd best squad in the league, and whilst Hearts and United fans will dispute that, I think all thats needed is the ability to stick with 4-4-2.

As a side note, in the period we went from bottom of the league to 3rd in the league look at our formations. Perhaps incidently, but there was a prominent member of afc-chat met with Calderwood whilst we were at bottom of the table in an effort to improve club/fan relations. This guy told Calderwood his main gripe was the changing of formations//tactics/players out of position etc. Obviously its unknown whether Calderwood took this onboard but during that period we played 4-4-2 every game. Same players barring injury or suspension. Players came back from injury and maybe slotted in, but nothing major. I think Aluko up front and Mackie on the wing was the weirdest thing I seen in this time (which isn't that weird by JC's standards and makes a lot of sense). We won something like 10 out of 12 games and got 6 in a row at home (including Celtic). Well done Calderwood you deserve credit there. BUT then he plays a strange variation of 4-5-1 against Rangers and then proceeds to fuck about with the team and its selection in the next games to present day, of which the only game we've won is scraping past an injury plagued Hamilton. And that to me is Calderwood in a nutshell.

6. Its not really splitting hair. Calderwood has a huge budget over Paterson. The fact that Calderwood has a budget shows an advantage over his predecessor! In terms of the SPL he DOES have a lot. The 4th highest in the SPL, and given Hearts tend to spunk a fair share of theirs on dodgy Lithuanians and guys we never see really there can be no excuses for Calderwood under-achieving. Whilst I don't think he has under-achieved per se I'd rather have a manager who over achieved (like McGhee has done with Motherwell) that does the bare minimum (back to the treading water point)

7. Hmm personally I'll disagree. How many times have you heard about our 'unrealistic' thought we should be winning the league. (how many Dons fans do you know think anything of the sort? I know zero). He is constantly bemoaning the unrealistic expectations. He had a go at Aberdonians within weeks of taking the post. He may say the fans have a right to show their feelings, but its almost always followed with a 'but' that says we're not helping to do so. The digs in the press about booing Foster/Mackie etc. No I'm not a boo-er, but if you've tried watching those 2 play for a team you care immensely about over the course of seasons and seasons, I can fully understand why people do.

If you need any evidence of the fact he hates us, I point you to the fact he recently gave Mackie a 3 year deal. Thats pure, pure hate there. I will find a few articles with choice quotes that show what I'm getting at another time, when its not 12.45am.

It hasn't came about because of our cup form at all. The tide has been turning against JC for 2 years. The cup thing has merely enhanced. As a regular at Pittodrie I've been resenting his style of play for seasons now. And whilst you can accept that if you succeed (which in this league is 3rd place), its hard to otherwise. I honestly believe we are the worst team to watch in the whole league. But if Calderwood could walk us into third he'd have no qualms. Anything less though, and naturally questions being asked. Especially when anytime I've seen us actually get the ball on the deck and moved it around we've absolutely hammered the opposition. The fact I can count the times we've done that in Calderwood's tenure on 1 hand is disgraceful though.

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exactly every point there is spot on.

What grinds me is what good will it do replacing jimmy this close to the end of the season? Do people really think McGee or Levin would drop their chase for europe to come to aberdeen? I very much doubt either would have the slightest interest in managing aberdeen at any point, especially when they see the way the fans treat JC. Three bad results in the cups and everyone wants to hang the guy, nevermind the league finishes every year, and dont give me that shite about preferring a cup run over a league place, fans would very quickly turn if the league results were rubbish even if we did well in both cups. The league is what is important not two diddy cups that mean very little now anyway.

Levein is a no-no. Too much of a sideways step.

McGhee was inches away from boarding a plane to meet with Romanov to finalise his appointment. He's publically said it was only the madness of Romanov that stopped him moving. So given that Aberdeen are roughly the same stature as Hearts, I'd say he would. Plus the undoubted emotional pull we'd have over him. Unless he sees himself as a successor at Parkhead within the next 2 seasons (which I think he'd be foolish to do) then I reckon he'd go for it.

And as someone else replied, you have no idea who'd apply. I still think Aberdeen is a pretty big pull for any manager wanting to make a name for himself or established managers looking for a step-up. I'd imagine we can compete in managers wages with the SPL and half the Championship. Fuck, you had Neil Warnock touting himself for the Caley job last time round!...he'd be utterly sensational :(

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Guest idol_wild

McGhee also mentioned in an interview in FourFourTwo that he was bitterly disappointed at not even being approached or being invited to apply for the Aberdeen job before Calderwood sealed the post.

Not that he's an amazing manager, mind. But hey - just thought I'd put that out there. Apparently he has a wee "thing" against Aberdeen as a result.

What a guy.

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give us one good example of this person who will inspire fear and respect who will be willing to manage aberdeen.

John Hughes. He has built and maintained an entertaining team that were desperately unlucky not to make the top 6 last season. Ok this year they have struggled but he has far far less in the way of resources than are available at Aberdeen. The players seem happy playing for him and he doesn't batter them in the press, in fact he appears to be far more media friendly than JC. I think he deserves a chance to step up and prove himself. Just my opinion but as well as JH we could look at:

John Collins

Mark McGee

Paul Lambert

Eric Black

Craig Levein

Only CL would be a maybe, the others would i imagine bite Aberdeen's hand off. All this moaning about not being a big club is piss. We have a tradition of winning competitions in Scotland that really is only bettered by the OF. We accept that we have no chance of winning the league anytime soon (if ever) but surely to fuck a cup ain't out of the question. All the gum bumping on here about 'people wont come to aberdeen' etc - horseshit. Jimmy gets 150,000 a year BASIC (got 30K bonus for getting past EURO group stages last year), the names I listed above probably don't. Money talks end of.

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I think John Collins is a bad shout, and probably wouldn't come (millionaire without management, and is he not managing one of the big Belguim clubs currently).

I actually agree he wouldn't be my choice, I only listed him as an SPL level manager we could attract to the job. He managed to make a mess out of a decent Hibs side and wouldn't want to take that risk with the Dons.

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so out of that list, only John hughes or maybe paul lambert are even slight possibilities, great list of managers to take over from JC isnt it. Hughes yes maybe, but i dont see him wasting his time with the dons, he has stated a few times he would only leave falkirk for a club with some money, he will go down south not further north. Lambert has done ok at lower level football in england but i guess thats the level we will have to look at if we go down that route.

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There is no chance Levein would even consider a side-step to manage Aberdeen. The Old firm or Scotland, yes. Aberdeen, no.

exactly same would apply to McGee, he has as much chance of relative success with motherwell as the dons, as much chance of a cup and europe, when he leaves motherwell he will again try his trade down south, if he doesnt get the celtic job first.

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