Calderwood

[The Milner]

At the risk of being gullible, are you serious?

completely, if it happens every year like is being said why do we expect to beat these teams?

[Bigsby]

why?

(8 characters)

Because we have the fourth highest budget for players in the country. If a manager can't use that to purchase and motivate players that are able to beat a team that is on the cusp of being part-time, then he should go.

[Hugh_Jazz]

completely, if it happens every year like is being said why do we expect to beat these teams?

There is no excuse for any team that regularly finishes top half of the SPL, getting turned over by a lower league side.

We might have come to expect it recently, but that doesn't mean we should expect it.

[The Milner]

Because we have the fourth highest budget for players in the country. If a manager can't use that to purchase and motivate players that are able to beat a team that is on the cusp of being part-time, then he should go.

its not like calderwood is the first manager of aberdeen with this problem, infact its not like he is the only manager in the SPL who cannot get his second rate bunch of players motivated for anything else other than collecting their pay check. Its a problem with football not just aberdeen, if these players cannot get motivated on their own to play for their club then no manager will change that. If its not in the belly it most likely never will be. These part time players care, most aberdeen players dont. These smaller clubs rely on cup runs to keep them afloat, players need the clubs for their pay, makes it a lot more worthwhile, most spl players know they get paid even if they go out, pride has been lost somewhere along the road.

[Lemonade]

I might be being optimistic, but I honestly do think we have the best squad outside the old firm - or at least we did last year when we had Hart, Clark and Nicholson, three excellent players, and Lovell who's shown what he can do with a regular start at Falkirk. OK there are weaknesses this season, but still players like Langfield, Diamond, Miller, Aluko, Kerr, McDonald, Smith (when he's fit), Mulgrew would get a game for any other team in the league, and Maguire and Considine are showing real promise.

[The Milner]

There is no excuse for any team that regularly finishes top half of the SPL, getting turned over by a lower league side.

We might have come to expect it recently, but that doesn't mean we should expect it.

see my other post.

[The Milner]

I might be being optimistic, but I honestly do think we have the best squad outside the old firm - or at least we did last year when we had Hart, Clark and Nicholson, three excellent players, and Lovell who's shown what he can do with a regular start at Falkirk. OK there are weaknesses this season, but still players like Langfield, Diamond, Miller, Aluko, Kerr, McDonald, Smith (when he's fit), Mulgrew would get a game for any other team in the league, and Maguire and Considine are showing real promise.

Mulgrew is terrible!! He is the worst defender at the club!! yes he has a good left foot but so what he cannot tackle and looks very uninterested every game. I doubt most of those players would get in every team especially not the old firm. We have a few good players surrounded by shit.

[Bigsby]

if these players cannot get motivated on their own to play for their club then no manager will change that. If its not in the belly it most likely never will be. These part time players care, most aberdeen players dont.

Then Calderwood shouldn't have signed them.

[Lemonade]

Mulgrew is terrible!! He is the worst defender at the club!! yes he has a good left foot but so what he cannot tackle and looks very uninterested every game. I doubt most of those players would get in every team especially not the old firm. We have a few good players surrounded by shit.

That's more than a lot of clubs have! Mulgrew is good going forward, OK he could work on his defensive game a bit but he's by no means terrible. He pretty much won us our first 9 points this season.

[The Milner]

Then Calderwood shouldn't have signed them.

what other choice is there? As i say its not just aberdeen not even close to being a problem only we suffer from, its a problem football has in general, full of over paid under talented plugs who couldnt give a shit as long as they get paid.

[The Milner]

That's more than a lot of clubs have! Mulgrew is good going forward, OK he could work on his defensive game a bit but he's by no means terrible. He pretty much won us our first 9 points this season.

and has cost us about the same in defensive mistakes since.

[Lemonade]

One of the many things that does fuck me off about Calderwood is his wasting money signing players seemingly on a whim then deciding they are not very good. Dan Smith for example. What was the point in signing him? Did he actually watch him before he signed him, or did he sign him, put him straight into the first team, then realise "actually wait a minute, this guy's a diddy". We could have signed a decent left back instead. Dyron Daal was much and such the same, although he was only on an amateur contract. What did he get, 5 games or something?

[Lemonade]

My biggest grumble with him is his constantly playing players ou of position though. As I've said earlier, he seems to think that any midfield or defensive player can play at centre mid, centre back, right wing, left wing, left back, right back, not to mention playing Aluko or Smith up front. I remember a few seasons ago seeing Barry Nicholson playing 5 different positions in the space of a couple of months. Plus did he ever work out what Touzani's best position was?

[Hugh_Jazz]

see my other post.

I have.

It's clear why lower league clubs are very motivated for Cup competitions.....it's basically their only chance of a big pay day. I don't accept though that Dons players are basically just going through the motions because they'll get paid well regardless. It's obvious that the players hurt when they get bad results.

The crux of the matter for me is that the players can't handle pressure. When we play the OF or other big sides, nobody really expects us to win, and consequently, the players play with more much freedom, play better football and often get a good result.

When we play diddies, they just can't handle the expectation. There's no shortage of effort, but they're just shit scared of doing something wrong and getting beat. Fear is the problem. Dons fans are hard on their players because we have high expectations....the players know this, and frankly, most of them just can't deal with it.

[Guest idol_wild]

I have.

It's clear why lower league clubs are very motivated for Cup competitions.....it's basically their only chance of a big pay day. I don't accept though that Dons players are basically just going through the motions because they'll get paid well regardless. It's obvious that the players hurt when they get bad results.

The crux of the matter for me is that the players can't handle pressure. When we play the OF or other big sides, nobody really expects us to win, and consequently, the players play with more much freedom, play better football and often get a good result.

When we play diddies, they just can't handle the expectation. There's no shortage of effort, but they're just shit scared of doing something wrong and getting beat. Fear is the problem. Dons fans are hard on their players because we have high expectations....the players know this, and frankly, most of them just can't deal with it.

Agreed entirely. Aberdeen are not good when they are favourites for a match. This has been evident for two or three years now. Many of them are total bottlers. With Captain Marvellous and World Cup passer of the ball, Scott Severin, being one of the main culprits.

[Lemonade]

I'd put the armband on Diamond if it were up to me, at least he tries to get the team fired up.

[The Milner]

I have.

It's clear why lower league clubs are very motivated for Cup competitions.....it's basically their only chance of a big pay day. I don't accept though that Dons players are basically just going through the motions because they'll get paid well regardless. It's obvious that the players hurt when they get bad results.

The crux of the matter for me is that the players can't handle pressure. When we play the OF or other big sides, nobody really expects us to win, and consequently, the players play with more much freedom, play better football and often get a good result.

When we play diddies, they just can't handle the expectation. There's no shortage of effort, but they're just shit scared of doing something wrong and getting beat. Fear is the problem. Dons fans are hard on their players because we have high expectations....the players know this, and frankly, most of them just can't deal with it.

yeah youve got a very good point there to be honest. I just get really annoyed about all this, i am a very passionate aberdeen fan but im also a realist. I cannot see any good happening from sacking jimmy all i can see is another few years of struggling to get into the top half of the table unless they somehow pull of a miracle in their appointment, and lets be fair, its not going to happen.

[Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree]

From the outside looking in (I'm a Celtic "fan", but having lived close to Pittodrie for years, attended quite a lot of Aberdeen matches in the last couple of years), I always say to the JC haters that he's been the best and most successful manager you've had since Fergie.

The European thing last season was absolutely tremendous and lifted the whole city. I was at the home games and Copenhagen and Bayern matches were brilliant (Moscow match was the coldest experience of my life...).

What he has done is completely steadied the ship, and gave you top 6 finishes each year, got you into Europe and played (some) good football along the way. I then get the argument from my mates who have season tickets that it is absolutely terrible to watch most weeks and the football is just dire. I've been to a few of the shitey games too, and can totally see where they're coming from.

If he would just play a steady team with people in their correct positions I think Aberdeen could be a very good consistent side, but he has this desire to tinker with the team far too much, which leads to some horrible games and some bad results.

But, on the whole I think he's been a fantastic manager for Aberdeen, and the big question would be who the fuck would you get to replace him if he left that would be as good???

[-matthEw-]

From the outside looking in (I'm a Celtic "fan", but having lived close to Pittodrie for years, attended quite a lot of Aberdeen matches in the last couple of years), I always say to the JC haters that he's been the best and most successful manager you've had since Fergie.

Firstly - Wrong. Secondly, regarding having a 'right' to go through against lower-league opposition, its the simple laws of football. You SHOULD be beating a team a league below you based on all the reasons that mean you are a league above them (budget, players ability etc etc). Obviously what makes football great is that upsets happen fairly regularly. But thats Calderwood lost against Queens Park (3rd division at the time!), QOTS, and Dunfermline. And Milner, if you've noticed, none of these teams were lucky, they all fully deserved to come away with a victory. There is only one acceptable way to go out to a lower-league team and that is to batter them for the 90 minutes (or in this case, 220 minutes) and by the miracles of football see them snatch a goal. In the most recent case we were probably the 2nd best side for all but 15 minutes of the 2 games and that is what is completely unacceptable about those results.

Thirdly, whilst Calderwood's achieved top 6 every year, the failings of other managers shouldn't come into it. And its worth baring in mind we played some fantastic football under Ebbe, in a time when the league was arguably at its strongest since the late 80s/very early 90s. Plus, whilst Paterson was an all-round disaster, he did have the task of seriously slashing the budget and players wages so was always operating with one hand tied behind his back. All this talk of Calderwood doing it on a shoe-string are ridiculous, as soon as Willie Miller came in he scrapped the wage caps imposed on Paterson's team. Can you imagine Pele being able to spend 100k on Tommy Wright? For all his faults, and there was many of them, Calderwood seriously beneffited from the team he put together. Blooding in Zander, making Anderson captain and arguably into the top player he became, Hart on a freebie, Heikennen on a freebie, Booth had a largely successful return when not injured. Now that Aberdeen team really was put together on a shoe-string budget, Calderwood has had a fortune in comparison.

Whilst Calderwood has made some terrific signings (Severin initially, Nicholson, Lovell at the time, Smith, Miller, Kerr) - these are all established SPL players, and didn't exactly require casting the net and cherry picking unknowns from around the globe. Also, when each of those players wanted to leave their club, if they wanted to stay in Scotland, there is only real two clubs could've offered a pay-rise, on the basis none of the OF are interested, or in Seve and Millers case, equal pay and that in my opinion is Hearts and Aberdeen. Each time the SPL hasn't had established 'stars' going for free Calderwood has signed utter, utter dross (with the exception of Touzani, who he then refused to play for 2 years ) Kristjansen, Mixu's brothers, Blaha, Dahl, Baas, Bus, Young, Wright.

I haven't been a Calderwood hater for long, but to me it was as clear as day that he should've left at the end of his contract last season. 4 years here and I think he could've looked back and said he'd done a good job, and I think the fans would have all been in agreeance. He has steady'd the ship, but its got to the point where we'll just be treading water for the next 2 and a half years with him. Top 6, but never third unless Hearts, Hibs and United similtaneously have a terrible season. Regular victories over the gruesome twosome, but similarly limp wristed showings in games against Hamilton, Killie, lower-league cup games. But this 3 year contract we've given him, there's no way it won't end in tears for both parties.

There is more reasons why I think he should go. The utter contempt he holds the fans in is slowly becoming a bigger reason with each article he publishes in his Weegie paper colulm. Maybe I should grow thicker skin, but I really don't like being insulted and lied to weekly by our manager.

[Lemonade]

Each time the SPL hasn't had established 'stars' going for free Calderwood has signed utter, utter dross (with the exception of Touzani, who he then refused to play for 2 years ) Kristjansen, Mixu's brothers, Blaha, Dahl, Baas, Bus, Young, Wright.

A right rogue's gallery there, but I don't think it's right to lump Young and Wright in with that lot. Derek has had some decent games since he came back, he's one of the few that's stands up where we're under pressure and doesn't try to hide. Wright hasn't had a chance to show what he can do yet, he's been injured for abot 6 months, I fancy him to stick in a few important goals in the run in, provided he doesn't automatically lose his place to Mackie again. Seriously, Mackie is beyond useless, we really need to get rid of him in the summer and get a decent striker in. If only we'd kept Stevie Lovell in the summer and punted Mackie, we could be having a very different discussion right now.

[The Milner]

I see the morons have written to Willie Millar telling him to sack Jimmy, it honestly disgusts me to be a don sometimes. There is no chance of it anyway, Jimmy is his best mate but really what a joke.

[Scootray]

I see the morons have written to Willie Millar telling him to sack Jimmy, it honestly disgusts me to be a don sometimes. There is no chance of it anyway, Jimmy is his best mate but really what a joke.

The fans pay the money. They have every right to write a letter if they feel like it.

[Scootray]

I've never been part of this "Jimmy Must Go" campaign, but the Dunfermline game really boiled my blood. A completely gash game of football, players out of position, rubbish substitutions and just general tactical pish. I'm still reeling from it a week on.

Why must players be switched around week in, week out if things are going well?! I'm really fed up of having to bear these results, and the fact that after every bad defeat he blames the players, just annoys the hell out of me. He takes no responsibility for what essentially are his blunders. Of course, he's not on the pitch making them, but at no point was he telling the team during the Dunfermline game to stop the long ball pish, which was obviously not working.

I also think there needs to be a new captain appointed, one who actually has the balls and the desire to suceed. Severin is dull and unmotivating, and I believe someone like Diamond - a young and respected member of the team - could do a much better job at inspiring the team. Surely this is something that Jimmy has noticed, no?! Seve has no command on the pitch, that's plain and simple to see.

Jimmy has done a good job at steadying the ship, but I think he should really be thinking to himself right now about leaving it at that, as we're going nowhere now.

[The Milner]

The fans pay the money. They have every right to write a letter if they feel like it.

very true, i just think its ill thought out, there is no one better out there who would be an obvious choice to take over, not one that would actually want the job.

[Hugh_Jazz]

Firstly - Wrong. Secondly, regarding having a 'right' to go through against lower-league opposition, its the simple laws of football. You SHOULD be beating a team a league below you based on all the reasons that mean you are a league above them (budget, players ability etc etc). Obviously what makes football great is that upsets happen fairly regularly. But thats Calderwood lost against Queens Park (3rd division at the time!), QOTS, and Dunfermline. And Milner, if you've noticed, none of these teams were lucky, they all fully deserved to come away with a victory. There is only one acceptable way to go out to a lower-league team and that is to batter them for the 90 minutes (or in this case, 220 minutes) and by the miracles of football see them snatch a goal. In the most recent case we were probably the 2nd best side for all but 15 minutes of the 2 games and that is what is completely unacceptable about those results.

Thirdly, whilst Calderwood's achieved top 6 every year, the failings of other managers shouldn't come into it. And its worth baring in mind we played some fantastic football under Ebbe, in a time when the league was arguably at its strongest since the late 80s/very early 90s. Plus, whilst Paterson was an all-round disaster, he did have the task of seriously slashing the budget and players wages so was always operating with one hand tied behind his back. All this talk of Calderwood doing it on a shoe-string are ridiculous, as soon as Willie Miller came in he scrapped the wage caps imposed on Paterson's team. Can you imagine Pele being able to spend 100k on Tommy Wright? For all his faults, and there was many of them, Calderwood seriously beneffited from the team he put together. Blooding in Zander, making Anderson captain and arguably into the top player he became, Hart on a freebie, Heikennen on a freebie, Booth had a largely successful return when not injured. Now that Aberdeen team really was put together on a shoe-string budget, Calderwood has had a fortune in comparison.

Whilst Calderwood has made some terrific signings (Severin initially, Nicholson, Lovell at the time, Smith, Miller, Kerr) - these are all established SPL players, and didn't exactly require casting the net and cherry picking unknowns from around the globe. Also, when each of those players wanted to leave their club, if they wanted to stay in Scotland, there is only real two clubs could've offered a pay-rise, on the basis none of the OF are interested, or in Seve and Millers case, equal pay and that in my opinion is Hearts and Aberdeen. Each time the SPL hasn't had established 'stars' going for free Calderwood has signed utter, utter dross (with the exception of Touzani, who he then refused to play for 2 years ) Kristjansen, Mixu's brothers, Blaha, Dahl, Baas, Bus, Young, Wright.

I haven't been a Calderwood hater for long, but to me it was as clear as day that he should've left at the end of his contract last season. 4 years here and I think he could've looked back and said he'd done a good job, and I think the fans would have all been in agreeance. He has steady'd the ship, but its got to the point where we'll just be treading water for the next 2 and a half years with him. Top 6, but never third unless Hearts, Hibs and United similtaneously have a terrible season. Regular victories over the gruesome twosome, but similarly limp wristed showings in games against Hamilton, Killie, lower-league cup games. But this 3 year contract we've given him, there's no way it won't end in tears for both parties.

There is more reasons why I think he should go. The utter contempt he holds the fans in is slowly becoming a bigger reason with each article he publishes in his Weegie paper colulm. Maybe I should grow thicker skin, but I really don't like being insulted and lied to weekly by our manager.

OK, a few points that you're going to have to flesh out a bit more:

1) Fantastic football under Ebbe

Is this the same fantastic football that saw us routinely murdered by the OF and rock bottom of the league for nearly 3 months? If you forget about the 2 cup finals, JC's record is streets ahead of Ebbes.....90 wins vs 68 losses (as of mid-Jan), compared to 54 wins and 68 losses for Ebbe. At the time, Alex Miller apart, Ebbe's results were the worst since the 1950s.

2) JC benefited from Pele's squad

That'll be the squad that Pele could hardly buy a win with? 23 wins vs 32 losses. Guess that means that JC must have turned things round. But let's not give him any praise for that.

3) JC has signed established SPL players, that didn't require him to cast the net

That's a good thing isn't it? Better to sign solid pros, who you know can handle the pace of our game. I think JC signings have been excellent, for the most part.

4) Non-SPL stars have been shite

What about Aluko, McDonald, Vidal, Smith. I think they've been quite good.

5) Treading water for next 2 years if we don't get shot of JC

Give me one shred of evidence that we won't tread water if we do get rid of him? Or go backwards? Haven't you heard, there's a recession on. Football in Scotland is going to feel the pinch over the coming months, and it is just totally unrealistic to expect that a new manager will be able to make sweeping changes.

6) Shoestring budget

We can split hairs all day long about who has had the most money, but ultimately neither Pele or JC have had much. JC has had to deal almost exclusively in the free transfers market, or in loan players.....so please don't try and imply that he's had a fortune to spend. He just hasn't.

7) Utter contempt for the fans

Evidence? Every time I hear JC interviewed, I only hear him praising our support. He supports our right to complain when things are going wrong. He might not be as media-friendly as say, Ebbe, but I think he knows fine how good the fans are....he certainly says as much.

This whole debate has come about because of our Cup form. But our league form over a number of years has been pretty decent, and given that this is our bread and butter, I think JC deserves a bit more praise than he's getting. Granted, it's not always scintillating stuff, but he's been far more consistent than any of his recent predecessors. Personally, I'd rather have us challenging for Europe via the league every year, than our league form being all over the place, and having the odd good cup run.

I'm confident that our Cup form will come good eventually, but sacking a manager with a good record will not help us....especially given the likelihood of us getting a decent replacement.