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Age old discussion (sell out)

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I'm sure it's been done to death, but when is an artist a "sell out"?

People get criticised for selling to adverts, movies etc, a few I can remember are Moby-Play (being a really big one), Jack White and Alicia Keys doing Bond theme, White Stripes doing Coke advert.

We all say we'd do what we love for free, but if you were doing it for free and everyone else was getting paid millions, wouldn't you want a slice of the pie?

What do people think? Particularly musicians, bands trying to "make it" or get a deal.

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I would be OK about it if the artists really did like the product (I'd be happy to do an ad for Aitken's bakery!). Otherwise, if it's all about money it lowers them in my esteem.

What really bugs me is the music of dead folk being used, when they might well have objected had they been alive :down:

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This is a term which has always pissed me off....

No such thing in my opinion.An artist has a perfect right to make the music they want to, and nothing wrong with maximising their cash flow too.

Artistic integrity doesn't impress bank managers or pay mortgages.

In any case, one persons "seeling out" may be anothers "musical progression", it's all so subjective really.

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Guest Giles Walker

"seeling out"

Fucking seelout.

Seriously though.

What companies would you guys considering selling out to?

I reckon right now i would sellout to the following companies.

Nestle

Gap

Disney

Nike

Coca Cola

Haliburton

and maybe Moonpig dot com

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Fucking seelout.

Seriously though.

What companies would you guys considering selling out to?

I reckon right now i would sellout to the following companies.

Nestle

Gap

Disney

Nike

Coca Cola

Haliburton

and maybe Moonpig dot com

I'd be delighted if it meant changing that annoying music. I'd also go for Nestle but KitKats specifically.

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making adverts is ace fun, and to have your music or whatever listened to by heaps of folk is ace, sell out? it's better than having a shite job and wasting your life doing something you dinna like, and besides, Bryan Adams made a pop video that looked like a fanny pad advert, euugh, gyad sakes min

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Guest Giles Walker
I'd also go for Nestle but KitKats specifically.

I was thinking more about the formula they sell in third world countries, that stuff is delicious.

I wish they sold it here, i might write a song about it and see if they would start selling it in the UK.

That shit is suweeeeeeeet!

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I was thinking more about the formula they sell in third world countries, that stuff is delicious.

I wish they sold it here, i might write a song about it and see if they would start selling it in the UK.

That shit is suweeeeeeeet!

You talking about the milk formula they give to babies? My grandma wouldn't allow me to eat Kit-Kats because of a church bulletin led boycott of Nestle products, because they were discouraging mothers from breast feeding or something.

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The term "sell out" is exclusively used by amatuers, musos who can't get anyone to like their music and schoolkids. It's never heard in professional music circles or used by people who actually make their entire living and pay their bills through music.

So please, use the correct term- "sour grapes" or "green eyed monster" at a pinch.

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You talking about the milk formula they give to babies? My grandma wouldn't allow me to eat Kit-Kats because of a church bulletin led boycott of Nestle products, because they were discouraging mothers from breast feeding or something.

It's something like that, I was in Tescos one day when I heard a woman saying to a four year old "No, put those back and pick something else, they're Nestle." :rolleyes:

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The term "sell out" is exclusively used by amatuers, musos who can't get anyone to like their music and schoolkids. It's never heard in professional music circles or used by people who actually make their entire living and pay their bills through music.

So please, use the correct term- "sour grapes" or "green eyed monster" at a pinch.

exactly, the term is only used by those who know they have no chance of "selling out" because they are shit, or those who are jelous.

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I think the concept of "selling out" has changed drmatically in the last few years. You could argue that being on a major label is a sell out. MySpace & the like have created a whole new market & way of marketing music.

Anyway, interesting article in the Guardian about "synchronisation" - ie, getting your music on TV shows, films, games, etc.

How virtual labels, games and synchronisation are changing the measure of pop success | Music | The Guardian

it's a bit simplistic to berate Jack White or whoever for having music in adverts, imho.

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I think the concept of "selling out" has changed drmatically in the last few years. You could argue that being on a major label is a sell out. MySpace & the like have created a whole new market & way of marketing music.

Anyway, interesting article in the Guardian about "synchronisation" - ie, getting your music on TV shows, films, games, etc.

How virtual labels, games and synchronisation are changing the measure of pop success | Music | The Guardian

it's a bit simplistic to berate Jack White or whoever for having music in adverts, imho.

True, especially when the song was featured in said advert without his permission and knowledge and which he later spoke out against.

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exactly, the term is only used by those who know they have no chance of "selling out" because they are shit, or those who are jelous.

Yeah... They are the only people who use that term...

God. You're an idiot.

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The term "sell out" is exclusively used by amatuers, musos who can't get anyone to like their music and schoolkids. It's never heard in professional music circles or used by people who actually make their entire living and pay their bills through music.

So please, use the correct term- "sour grapes" or "green eyed monster" at a pinch.

that's just not true. in the slightest. the only way that statement could be true was if the only musicians who ever made any money were phil collins and sting or something.

sell out:

YouTube - Swiftcover Iggy Pop Commercial

are professional music circles like the magic circle? i hope so, that would be awesome.

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that's just not true. in the slightest. the only way that statement could be true was if the only musicians who ever made any money were phil collins and sting or something.

sell out:

YouTube - Swiftcover Iggy Pop Commercial

are professional music circles like the magic circle? i hope so, that would be awesome.

I'm afraid it is true. Simply wishing or hoping it's not doesn't suddenly make it false. There are a great many pro musicians who make a good living without ever thinking about the charts, the brits, glastonbury or radio one.

I've been making my living from music for 35 years and never heard anyone who is serious using that term and actually meaning it. In fact, it's usually used as a sarcastic piss take when a friend or aquaintance picks up a lucrative contract or residency.

Yes it is like the magic circle especially when trying to get major radio stations to play your stuff. In fact, it's more like the masons.

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It's something like that, I was in Tescos one day when I heard a woman saying to a four year old "No, put those back and pick something else, they're Nestle." :rolleyes:

Yeah, morals, what a drag.

As far as I know, the jist of what happened was that in parts of Africa, Nestl encouraged mothers to use formula milk, which they were being told was free. Many babies became dependent on it, some started to reject breastmilk, and then Nestl began to charge for the formula milk, which the babies now couldn't do without, and was expensive. The World Health Organisation condemned them for it back in the 90s, I think that's when people started boycotting them. It's worth googling. I'm not sure if what I've said is 100% accurate but it's something near an outline.

Anyway, as said before, I define 'selling out' as compromising your music for material gain.

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Guest idol_wild
Anyway, as said before, I define 'selling out' as compromising your music for material gain.

I think this is the finest definition so far. And it does happen. And it doesn't just happen in music. But it's not a term I use often or lightly.

But because I recognise the term "selling out" it must mean i'm either:

a) an amatuer

b) a "muso" who can't get anyone to like my music

c) a schoolkid

Which is pretty strange logic.

But I guess it could be argued that by doing the job that I do (working 8:30 - 5 in a job that I don't have any real interest in) is a form of selling out, as I am giving up other things I'd rather be doing for material gain (and to pay rent and bills).

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But I guess it could be argued that by doing the job that I do (working 8:30 - 5 in a job that I don't have any real interest in) is a form of selling out, as I am giving up other things I'd rather be doing for material gain (and to pay rent and bills).

i think thats the best way ive heard of looking at it, me and a few others have been harsh in the way we have put across our point about this, but thats the point i was trying to make. People work everyday in jobs just for money so why shouldnt people make music for money? People draw for money, the better atists get more money, people play football for a living, the better players get more money, these people dont get accused of "selling out" so why do people in bands?

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Guest idol_wild

So do footballers, but it's usually termed something else, like "gold-digging" or whatever. For example: Theo Snelders going to Rangers to triple his basic salary and to become backup goalkeeper for the club.

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