Gig Etiquette

[The Milner]

Your posts consistently anger me.

That statement is so wrong.

No need for anger, the ignore function is there for a reason

Why is it so wrong?

[TheTickingTime-Bomb]

After playing a show last night in which we had to cut our set by two songs because the band before us went way over their slot by asking to play "just one more". I thought I might ask other gigging musicians on the forum for their tips on good gig etiquette

I hope you aren't talking about us?

We had a hard time getting the band before us off stage after they had played!

[Guest]

No need for anger, the ignore function is there for a reason

Why is it so wrong?

If you cant hear what you play, then its impossible to play well. I dont know if you've played a lot of shows, and I'm by no means an expert, but I've performed on stage a few times and can assure you if you cant hear what you're playing it makes it very hard to play in sync and well.

[TheTickingTime-Bomb]

...bands who would insist on playing a full song two or three times, if you cant hear something in the first minute or so its not going to change over the next two without you telling the sound engineer to fix it.

Yeah I hate that!

If you need the bass volume or whatever tweaked on stage, then don't play the full song (including the minute and a half intro devoid of any bass...). Just play half a verse and move on.

Playing a whole song should only be required once during a soundcheck and only so the sound engineer can gel everything together.

[The Milner]

If you cant hear what you play, then its impossible to play well. I dont know if you've played a lot of shows, and I'm by no means an expert, but I've performed on stage a few times and can assure you if you cant hear what you're playing it makes it very hard to play in sync and well.

ive played drums in bands for over ten years now and ive played 100's of gigs and im by no means an expert but surely the only thing you need to hear is the speed of the song and the key its in everything else you should know already. Yes there are little bits here and there you may need to hear but you make sure this is sorted in sound check, you do not need to hear every person in your band perfectly in order to perform your songs.

I've said this before, and not that it matters to anyone else. but ive played heaps of gigs without any real form of sound check, just a line check before going on stage without any probelms what so ever i preferr that, i know what my bands songs sound like, i listen to the cds we record for that, come gig time all i want to hear is a bass guitar and a little of the front vocals its all i need to drum and sing backing vocals.

The cover bands i play in for years didnt even have moniters and it never bothered us at all, we only bought them because we had the money too.

[Guest Bob Double Jack]

never turn up expecting to borrow an instrument or an amp, i only ever lent my backline to people i trusted and know wouldn't fuck about with it. Had a bad experience years ago letting someone borrow a guitar, who then trashed it. And I mean trashed it. Never again.

Manners and speaking to other bands on the bill, not being a pretentious twat, all commonsense really !

[The Milner]

Yeah I hate that!

If you need the bass volume or whatever tweaked on stage, then don't play the full song (including the minute and a half intro devoid of any bass...). Just play half a verse and move on.

Playing a whole song should only be required once during a soundcheck and only so the sound engineer can gel everything together.

there is just no need for it!!

Play a minute of a song where you have most things going on, stop, tell the engineer what you want, then play it again and repeat till your happy. Then if the sound engineer asks you too, play another song or bit of a song.

The guys in Kenetic were annoying for that sometimes, they would like to play through whole songs where as i would just want to drop into a chorus and see what it sounded like.

I always laughed at bands where they would ask for a mic for another member other than the singer then sound check a song where only the main man was singing and then piss and moan come show time when his mic wasnt loud enough.

[Guest]

ive played drums in bands for over ten years now and ive played 100's of gigs and im by no means an expert but surely the only thing you need to hear is the speed of the song and the key its in everything else you should know already. Yes there are little bits here and there you may need to hear but you make sure this is sorted in sound check, you do not need to hear every person in your band perfectly in order to perform your songs.

I've said this before, and not that it matters to anyone else. but ive played heaps of gigs without any real form of sound check, just a line check before going on stage without any probelms what so ever i preferr that, i know what my bands songs sound like, i listen to the cds we record for that, come gig time all i want to hear is a bass guitar and a little of the front vocals its all i need to drum and sing backing vocals.

The cover bands i play in for years didnt even have moniters and it never bothered us at all, we only bought them because we had the money too.

You've changed your argument! I'm not discussing "hearing your band perfectly" but you have to have at least a half decent sound coming through the PA. As a drummer the band centres around you, so its different. As a frontman, not hearing other instruments properly can fuck up your timing etc.

[The Milner]

You've changed your argument! I'm not discussing "hearing your band perfectly" but you have to have at least a half decent sound coming through the PA. As a drummer the band centres around you, so its different. As a frontman, not hearing other instruments properly can fuck up your timing etc.

timing comes from the drums, there is no way you wont hear the drums during a gig. Key comes from the bass usually, if the song starts with just a guitar again it is easy to hear. You dont "need" a decent moniter set up on stage at all, but it is nice to have it.

[Jeid]

timing comes from the drums, there is no way you wont hear the drums during a gig. Key comes from the bass usually, if the song starts with just a guitar again it is easy to hear. You dont "need" a decent moniter set up on stage at all, but it is nice to have it.

Fuck off... I play with a drummer that pounds his kit and I've been on stage and NOT heard him or parts of his playing at times. Saying "there is no way you won't hear the drums" is bullshit.

You're basically saying you don't need a monitor mix because you should always be able to hear the drummer, correct me if I'm wrong, but I can bet I'm not the only one thinking that.

Mind you, you're a drummer, why am I bothering

EDIT: I'm also with Maxi about the gear thing. If I've spent a lot of money on my gear, and I have, and someone turns up without an amp and expects to use it, then they can think again. However, if something happens during the set, I'd gladly jump in and help. Cabs are the exception, it's a cab

[The Milner]

Fuck off... I play with a drummer that pounds his kit and I've been on stage and NOT heard him or parts of his playing at times. Saying "there is no way you won't hear the drums" is bullshit.

You're basically saying you don't need a monitor mix because you should always be able to hear the drummer, correct me if I'm wrong, but I can bet I'm not the only one thinking that.

Mind you, you're a drummer, why am I bothering

EDIT: I'm also with Maxi about the gear thing. If I've spent a lot of money on my gear, and I have, and someone turns up without an amp and expects to use it, then they can think again. However, if something happens during the set, I'd gladly jump in and help. Cabs are the exception, it's a cab

No im saying you dont really need a moniter mix because you should know your songs well enough to play them in any kind of situation, and because most of the time you will be able to hear enough from the amps, again tho this can change depending on the venue. Ill say it again, ive done it plenty of times and what im saying comes from the front men who ive played with i wouldnt say it otherwise because yes i am at the back every gig and therefor i dont know what its like up front. If you cant hear the drums from 1 meter away then there is something wron with your ears or your drummer is battering the shit out of his cymbals constantly.

[Jeid]

Aye, you're a drummer, you don't need to hear anything, but everyone else needs to hear you and depending on parts of your songs, you need to hear the other guys in your band.

We played a gig in Inverness just after xmas, I was standing beside the drummer and could only hear his snare and cymbals... I don't have a clue if I sung my harmonies in tune that night or not

[incredibledisc]

I hope you aren't talking about us?

We had a hard time getting the band before us off stage after they had played!

I dunno - were you playing in Tunnel 1 or Tunnel 2? I don't think it was you as the band on first were only a guitarist and bass player doing an acoustic set. I don't recall them taking all that long to get off stage.

I didn't start this thread to offend anyone but was curious to see the kind of things other bands find acceptable/unacceptable when it comes to gigging - like playing over your time slot for whatever reason which then has a negative effect on the next band on.

[Hugh_Jazz]

There's a lot more to a good performance than just reciting your part from memory. If the stage mix is so bad that you, as the drummer, can't hear much of anyone else, then yeah, if you know your stuff (which you should) you'll get through it, but that's about as good as it will get.....as a drummer, I find it much easier to lock in with the bassist/guitarist and hence, get a much better, tighter sound if you can hear each other properly. Sorry if that's just stating the bleedin' obvious.

On the earlier subject of sharing gear.....then frankly, having spent a small fortune on my pride and joys, I absolutely reserve the right to be as precious as I fucking like! It's my gear, I take care of it, and if another drummer hasn't come prepared, then that's his/her problem, not mine.

[Stichman]

EDIT: I'm also with Maxi about the gear thing. If I've spent a lot of money on my gear, and I have, and someone turns up without an amp and expects to use it, then they can think again. However, if something happens during the set, I'd gladly jump in and help. Cabs are the exception, it's a cab

Yeah, that's what I meant. I never said anything about turning up and expecting to use someone else's gear, but if someone was in bother and wanted to borrow my gear, I'd almost always let them.

[Panda Strong]

the more dancing the better.

on and off stage.

[calum]

I once borrowed a guitar from the other guitarist in my band due to a broken string, then proceeded to bleed all over it - that's poor gig etiquette.

[TheTickingTime-Bomb]

I dunno - were you playing in Tunnel 1 or Tunnel 2? I don't think it was you as the band on first were only a guitarist and bass player doing an acoustic set. I don't recall them taking all that long to get off stage.

I didn't start this thread to offend anyone but was curious to see the kind of things other bands find acceptable/unacceptable when it comes to gigging - like playing over your time slot for whatever reason which then has a negative effect on the next band on.

Tunnel 1.

Yeah I don't think it was us.

I think it's a good thread question, but to be honest I've had a lot more trouble with sound engineers than bands in the past.

[Jeid]

Tunnel 1.

Yeah I don't think it was us.

I think it's a good thread question, but to be honest I've had a lot more trouble with sound engineers than bands in the past.

I think sound engineers would say the same about bands...

[Guest idol_wild]

Soundchecks as well used to do my head in, with point and stayover we spent more time setting up equipment than we did sound checking, i just didnt see the point, if you know your songs you can play them no matter what you hear on stage. Bands who dick about moaning about moniters are usually the ones who either A: dont know their songs or B think they are the dogs bollocks that "deserve" to be up there fucking around

I agree with this to a very small extent. I know you're not stupid enough to procliam that a good monitor mix isn't favourable at all.

BUT, surely the whole point in being in a band is to perform songs that you absolutely love performing? Therefore, onstage, you want to hear every little bit of the song clearly because you genuinely enjoy the songs and all their little sonic nuances.

Also, if guitar bands are a bit more sonically intelligent/playful and feature two or three guitars that rely on tight interplay, it's pretty fucking important to be able to hear the other guitar(s), regardless of how tight a band they normally are or how well they know the songs.

But yeah, bands who are overly precious about their sound, and take longer than their allocated soundcheck time as a result, should be vilified.

[Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree]

I have to agree with those who say you should be able to hear each other on stage. Yes, you can get away with playing your songs, and keeping it together so long as you can hear the drums, and as long as you can hear yourself at least a little bit.

BUT, as Phil says, one of the major things about being in a band for me is I enjoy creating songs etc and playing them live. I actually like the songs my band plays, and it's a bit shit onstage if you can't even hear a decent monitor mix. The better our onstage sound, the better we play. Which is probably a combination of the fact we are enjoying it better because we can hear it, and know that we're getting it spot on etc, and partly because we're not totally straining to try and hear that bit of the lead guitar, or that bit of the vocal or whatever that gives a cue to stop, or start or well, you know what I mean - it's just easier to play a solid tight show if you can hear everyone on stage.

As for soundchecks. I'm a great believer in every band getting x amount of time, pre-agreed and sticking to it. I'll give you Drummonds on Friday night. We are told to turn up and have been given 6pm-7pm as our allocated soundcheck time, with View From The Top Floor getting 7pm-7.30pm. Fat Hippy nights - apparently only 2 bands get a soundcheck. Nobody had told Tijuana Sun that they weren't getting a soundcheck - they turned up expecting one at 7pm - which may have been agreed between them and VFTTF. Anyway - we turned up at 6pm, but NOTHING was ready. We started soundcheck at roughly 7pm, and did a pretty quick soundcheck as our singer had to be somewhere between 7 and 8. The soundcheck we got was fine, but it meant the band at 7pm didn't get a check at all. That's completely not our fault, because we would have been done long before 7pm, had we actually been able to start on time.

I've found the engineers in the "smaller" venues in Aberdeen/Glasgow/Edinburgh/Dundee that we've played have always been disorganised like this. I can't understand why they can't have the stage set up by 6pm (or whenever first band is due to go on). Average gig at the Tunnels, all bands are told to turn up at 6pm. First band doesn't get onstage till about 6.45pm, and the last band is left sitting about waiting till about 10 minutes before doors open, and get a line check. Why bother saying turn up at 6pm?

That pisses me off endlessly.

Gig etiquette? Stick around to watch the other bands if you can (it's obviously not always possible), stick to your allocated time, be ready to go on at your allocated time, and let the band that's playing directly before you get offstage before carrying your equipment on and getting in their way.

[One_Night_Stand]

We played a gig yesterday at the tunnels in which the band following us came right on stage and started setting up before we even started getting our own stuff off! And they didnt even say a word to us, it just really pissed me off.

[The Milner]

I agree with this to a very small extent. I know you're not stupid enough to procliam that a good monitor mix isn't favourable at all.

BUT, surely the whole point in being in a band is to perform songs that you absolutely love performing? Therefore, onstage, you want to hear every little bit of the song clearly because you genuinely enjoy the songs and all their little sonic nuances.

Also, if guitar bands are a bit more sonically intelligent/playful and feature two or three guitars that rely on tight interplay, it's pretty fucking important to be able to hear the other guitar(s), regardless of how tight a band they normally are or how well they know the songs.

But yeah, bands who are overly precious about their sound, and take longer than their allocated soundcheck time as a result, should be vilified.

Not at all thats why i said its nice to have it but not entirely essencial.

Yes its nice to hear your own songs that you enjoy but again as i said thats why i have cds of my bands songs, i can listen to them endlessly and enjoy my work that way, when i play live all i care about is hearing exactly what i need to play a song and the rest is unimportant to me, it does me no good to hear the guitarist play his part perfectly or hear all the vocals perfectly, but then this is only my opinion on this subject everyone i guess has their own way of working, ive just been used to years of gigs with no moniters or soundchecks so im used to just going with whatever.

I used to get very annoyed at soundchecks and thats maybe by the end why we didnt bother, why turn up at a venue and sit around for 2 hours to get onstage for ten minutes? Unless you've got your own sound engineer who knows your sound then for me a line check is just as adequate, at the end of the day these guys who work drummonds/tunnels ect dont really give a shit what your band sounds like (why should they) and are just interested in getting a general good sound for the night, this is in no way a dig at them btw i can completely understand why they feel like this.

One thing i wanted to do was to make a sheet to give to the sound guy before a gig, stating exactly what we wanted in our moniters and what the main set up of the band was, ie who is lead vocal, lead guitar, how many vocals overall and stuff like that, it would make his/her job that little bit easier and hopeful leave him/her more time to concentrate on the front of house sound.

[Guest Tam o' Shantie]

power trios with 3 vocalists need to be able to hear each other's vocals & instruments. playing behind a drum kit, not being to hear my own voice, 2 other guys' voices or their instruments leaves me fairly helpless

[Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree]

Not at all thats why i said its nice to have it but not entirely essencial.

Yes its nice to hear your own songs that you enjoy but again as i said thats why i have cds of my bands songs, i can listen to them endlessly and enjoy my work that way, when i play live all i care about is hearing exactly what i need to play a song and the rest is unimportant to me, it does me no good to hear the guitarist play his part perfectly or hear all the vocals perfectly, but then this is only my opinion on this subject everyone i guess has their own way of working, ive just been used to years of gigs with no moniters or soundchecks so im used to just going with whatever.

I used to get very annoyed at soundchecks and thats maybe by the end why we didnt bother, why turn up at a venue and sit around for 2 hours to get onstage for ten minutes? Unless you've got your own sound engineer who knows your sound then for me a line check is just as adequate, at the end of the day these guys who work drummonds/tunnels ect dont really give a shit what your band sounds like (why should they) and are just interested in getting a general good sound for the night, this is in no way a dig at them btw i can completely understand why they feel like this.

One thing i wanted to do was to make a sheet to give to the sound guy before a gig, stating exactly what we wanted in our moniters and what the main set up of the band was, ie who is lead vocal, lead guitar, how many vocals overall and stuff like that, it would make his/her job that little bit easier and hopeful leave him/her more time to concentrate on the front of house sound.

I think sound engineers should give enough of a shit, that the mix sounds good on and off stage. It's their job really.

I have another example. We played Snafu ages ago, supporting Underground Heroes. Sound engineer was nowhere to be seen during the time we were meant to be soundchecking. He just hadn't turned up - whether it was his fault or the venue's or a lack of communication between venue and Steven Milne, I don't know, but he wasn't there anyway.

We did as best we could with the amps on stage and had a wee blast at a couple of songs, but with no vocals as the mics weren't turned on. Steven was there but didn't want to mess with the sound desk, so we just went with that and were told we'd get a line check prior to going on.

When it was time to go on, said sound engineer said "just go for it, and we'll sort it as we go" No line check was given. We started off not bad, but all I could hear was my bass and drums. I was borrowing Underground Heroes bass amp which was fucking enormous, and very very loud (apparently, bass was very high in the front of house mix as well). I would personally have got through that set okay with just that, but our singer couldn't hear his own guitar or any instruments for that - he asked for it to be turned up on his monitor. The engineer pretty much cranked it up very very high, and it just caused massive feedback. So, he asked to have it turned down a bit. Engineer turned it off. And so it went. He didn't seem to have the ability to turn it up gradually. Our set turned into a shambles after that cos our frontman/guitarist was completely put off by the shit onstage sound and we actually ballsed up a song that we never make any mistakes in, ever.

I've no idea which sound engineer that was - it's definitely not the current engineer Rob from Kartta, who we've since worked with at Snafu, and the sound was pretty much amazing on and offstage.