Soda Jerk Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 you dont need a sound check for that tho, tell the engineer what you want in your wedge mix and if there is a problem tell him after the first song.As for not hearing the drums i dont get this one, how can you not hear a drum kit that is less than 5 meters away from you? Especially a snare drum it cuts through everything usually.Well. No. The whole mix needs to be checked to make sure all vocals can be heard on stage above the rest of the instruments if there are vocal harmonies that are prominent. And I mean proper vocal harmonies, not just singing the same thing at the same time...If you're talking standard 4/4 rock music, then yeah, the snare isn't going to suffer from being lost in the mix most of the time, but something faster, angular and unorthadox means the snare can't always be hit as hard and is often inaudible on stage. Especially if I've got my amp through two cabs.Although I've been in many sitautions even in a standard set up where the drums weren't as audible as they should be because of 2 guitar cabs and a bass cab drowning them out. Its a million times better if the drums are mic's up and fed back through the monitors. They also sound better to everyone off stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Haha - yeah - I get that point too.Although i did say that Calum is one of the better engineers we've worked with. I don't think it's his fault what time we're told to turn up, if he only starts work at 6pm there's no way he can be ready for us at 6pm, so we should be told to turn up at 6.30pm or 7pm or whenever he'll be ready for us.I think it's just a laziness thing on the part of whoever tells all the bands to turn up at 6pm. The bands should be given an actual time that is realistic and the engineer can stick to. If there are bands that don't generally do soundchecks (like you guys didn't), that should be factored in, and the other bands can use extra time if they want. But telling bands to turn up at 6pm, and sometimes those bands don't even get a soundcheck at all, is just going to piss people off, make the sound engineer feel harassed etc etc.Little bit of organisation goes a long way!yes but bands are generally late, especially bass players or front men so if your a three piece your fucked if only your drummer is there I do get your point and in a perfect world all these things would work, but in a normal gig situation it never does. I would imagine they ask bands to be there that early because there is a chance it could all go exactly to plan and everyone would be happy and there would be no threads on here speaking about it. How would you feel if you knew the sound engineer was ready at 6.15 and you were asked to come at 7 to give him time to get ready, then you dont get a sound check when you could have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Well. No. The whole mix needs to be checked to make sure all vocals can be heard on stage above the rest of the instruments if there are vocal harmonies that are prominent. And I mean proper vocal harmonies, not just singing the same thing at the same time...If you're talking standard 4/4 rock music, then yeah, the snare isn't going to suffer from being lost in the mix most of the time, but something faster, angular and unorthadox means the snare can't always be hit as hard and is often inaudible on stage. Especially if I've got my amp through two cabs.Although I've been in many sitautions even in a standard set up where the drums weren't as audible as they should be because of 2 guitar cabs and a bass cab drowning them out. Its a million times better if the drums are mic's up and fed back through the monitors. They also sound better to everyone off stage.without a doubt drums do sound better miced up and it can be easier for everyone else involved, but again its not like the songs cannot be played if this isnt the case, thats what ive been trying (and most likely failing) to say. Surely you only need the main vocal to harmonies off of, i do again i dont see the need to hear everyone else, puts me off, but then this is just the way i feel about it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 yes but bands are generally late, especially bass players or front men so if your a three piece your fucked if only your drummer is there I do get your point and in a perfect world all these things would work, but in a normal gig situation it never does. I would imagine they ask bands to be there that early because there is a chance it could all go exactly to plan and everyone would be happy and there would be no threads on here speaking about it. How would you feel if you knew the sound engineer was ready at 6.15 and you were asked to come at 7 to give him time to get ready, then you dont get a sound check when you could have?Yeah, I know - I totally get your point.But lateness is a thing that grates on me in all walks of life. Why can't everyone just not be on time, all the time!?To be fair - if my allotted soundcheck time was at 7pm and the engineer was ready at 6.15, it wouldn't really matter so long as we got the soundcheck we were promised.I just can't see why things can't be thought through properly and realistically and times allocated and stuck to (give or take 5/10 minutes, yeah - but not give or take an hour and a half!).I can't accept your point that bassists are generally late. I'm the bassist, and I'm never late for anything in my life ever. I would give myself a heart attack running to be on time, and risk my life by dodging through speeding buses etc to avoid being late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 without a doubt drums do sound better miced up and it can be easier for everyone else involved, but again its not like the songs cannot be played if this isnt the case, thats what ive been trying (and most likely failing) to say. Surely you only need the main vocal to harmonies off of, i do again i dont see the need to hear everyone else, puts me off, but then this is just the way i feel about it all.We as a band don't do vocal harmonies, so not something I can speak from experience on, but I'm guessing that the type of harmonies that Cap Sante have requires everyone to hear everyone else - a lot of the time, there's not really a "main" vocal as such, and different parts of the song would have different vocalists "leading" if you know what I mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Jerk Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 The songs can be played, but they will be played badly if the timing can't be heard.And yes. Just the main vocal is enough to harmonise from, but it still requires a soundcheck to make sure both vocalists can hear each other and are equal in the mix. Saying soundchecks are pointless is just utterly ridiculous. Without it, the first song could sound utter toss, and no one wants to see a band messing with settings. have it all done before you go on. First impressions and that.... You only get one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black_matter Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 yes but bands are generally late, especially bass playersYou, dear sir, are mincing your words.The very essence of bass playing is time keeping and I for one pride myself on good time keeping. I dont even care for the fact you put 'generally' when describing that bands are late, you're still a complete and utter divot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest treader. Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Milner, you've never played a gig as anything other than a drummer. You're not in a position to give this lecture about not being able to hear the drums from the guitarist/singer's perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 The songs can be played, but they will be played badly if the timing can't be heard.And yes. Just the main vocal is enough to harmonise from, but it still requires a soundcheck to make sure both vocalists can hear each other and are equal in the mix. Saying soundchecks are pointless is just utterly ridiculous. Without it, the first song could sound utter toss, and no one wants to see a band messing with settings. have it all done before you go on. First impressions and that.... You only get one!I totally agree with this.People pay money to watch bands play live. Why should they stand and watch a band line-checking, and/or pricking about in between songs with their settings etc.It's bad enough when you get a guitarist who constantly tunes his guitar in between songs, nothing wrong with a quick check and tune, but some guitarists spend a few minutes between each song tuning up, which means that folk just get annoyed and lose interest.Bands should be able to go onstage and play their set without having to mess with levels/settings etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest treader. Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 ...because we have no idea where he plugs things into etc..sockets, probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 sockets, probably.Well yeah, clearly.But which sockets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofdeon Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 dont think i have ever turned up and the sound check has been on time. Least the bar is open at Drummonds.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 dont think i have ever turned up and the sound check has been on time. Least the bar is open at Drummonds....Sound check is normally on time at Moshulu and Lemon Tree. Although we have had to stand about waiting for very long times at Moshulu, but that has always been the fault of the touring band being late.Pretty much everywhere else we've played it is almost always late. Our list of venues isn't particularly long, but I'd say it's never been on time at Tunnels, Drummonds, Kef, Capitol, Box, Henry's Cellar Bar, Doghouse. It has been on time at Snafu, though not every time we've played there.Our first ever gig was a DIY job at Stuartfield Local Hall and "soundcheck" was about 3 hours late because our singer got hammered the night before and didn't get out of his bed till about 4pm. Cunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 milner, you've never played a gig as anything other than a drummer. You're not in a position to give this lecture about not being able to hear the drums from the guitarist/singer's perspective.how the fuck would you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Haha ok im sorry to the bass players reading this, it was ment as a joke. Please dont take offence I ALSO APPOLIGSE TO ALL THESE BANDS WHO DESERVE THEIR SOUND CHECK I SEEM TO HAVE OFFENDED PEOPLE BY SAYING THEY DONT NEED ONE, THAT WAS NOT MY INTENTION. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Haha ok im sorry to the bass players reading this, it was ment as a joke. Please dont take offence Fucking drummers. Cunts, the lot of them............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Jerk Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Haha ok im sorry to the bass players reading this, it was ment as a joke. Please dont take offence I ALSO APPOLIGSE TO ALL THESE BANDS WHO DESERVE THEIR SOUND CHECK I SEEM TO HAVE OFFENDED PEOPLE BY SAYING THEY DONT NEED ONE, THAT WAS NOT MY INTENTION.You haven't offended anyone. We're just a bit baffled at your 'soundchecks are shit' blanket statement, which you seem to think covers every band, every sound set up and every venue. I'm not offended anyway. I just think you're a bit nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Milner, if you can't hear the other members of the band how are you supposed to know who got to the end of the song first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfer_Rosa Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Our worst experience was at the Lemon Tree, when we were scheduled to sound-check after a world-music/funk fusion band. They fucked about for hours, and once they decided every last tambala and santur and the 8 vocal mics were all perfect in every monitor and they left the stage, it was time for doors to open. We managed to slip in a quick line check while they held the doors for an extra 5 mins, and that had to do. But fair doos to the soundguy, he did a cracking job considering this. Oh and the same band also ate the vegan pizza backstage that was being kept for Edgar Prais. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HateEvent Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 There was ONE time I let someone use my amp at a gig. I deliberately set it onto the B channel with regards to master volume so that when (not if) they dicked about with the levels, it'd survive. I helped set it up for them as I'm not having someone blow up a 3k head with no comeback on my part by just leaving them to it.They did the soundcheck and it was MORE than loud enough. Very cutting. They were very happy with the sound. I had the master volume set to 4 and the gain at 4 (it is an extremely gain happy amp). I went onstage after they were done (we were playing next) and the channel A gain and volume were both pushed to 10. Wise the fuck up! If I didn't have the dual output section on the amp that I do, it'd have been fried. I did say also that if the volume needed pumped slightly, to use a particular control but do it subtley as it is overly responsive.Last time anyone uses my gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britheguy Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Our first ever gig was a DIY job at Stuartfield Local Hall and "soundcheck" was about 3 hours late because our singer got hammered the night before and didn't get out of his bed till about 4pm. Cunt. Ah! good old Crichie Hall. The Anti room ok for a practice or two as well. I think that people at gigs should just get on with it. Help others if need be, but that doesn't mean borrowing expensive equipment etc. Sadly though I think there are too much knobs out there that think they are great and we should feel privileged to share the same sticky, smoke machined foggy stage as them. Och I'm not going to get into a rant here. Chill out and enjoy, just remember, good manners are free so don't be shy to share them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tam o' Shantie Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 can i just point out as well that asking for a specific monitor mix is all very well, but the chances of it translating correctly to 3 separate monitors using guesswork to try to guage the effects of the room's acoustics on the final sound is very difficult. Hence the importance even of a short line check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I'd like to ask these bands who cannot play without a sound check, what would you do at the moorings? More to the point how, if a band requires a sound check, do they manage to get the best sound in aberdeen almost every single time no matter what instruments are being used in the band? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Milner, you've never played a gig as anything other than a drummer. You're not in a position to give this lecture about not being able to hear the drums from the guitarist/singer's perspective.Bollocks, I've seen Milner play a guitar and sing to a paying audience in Aberdeen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I'd like to ask these bands who cannot play without a sound check, what would you do at the moorings? More to the point how, if a band requires a sound check, do they manage to get the best sound in aberdeen almost every single time no matter what instruments are being used in the band?because they use the same backline at every gig einstein and bands get a line check to guage levels. the moorings does not have the monopoly on the best sound in aberdeen. though it's certainly no slouch.this is all a bit silly. soundchecks are a great tool to make a gig go smoother. of course you can still play an awesome gig with a shit or non-existent soundcheck but why give yourself that hassle? i'm sure everyone can agree that being able to hear your bandmates helps you to give a better performance. i don't think everyone in the bands i've played in would agree that being able to hear me helps them though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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