Dan G Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 1) a good guitar2) a good head3) a good caband:4) plenty of time to be fannying around with getting two mics in the best positions on the speaker, and then the time dealing with phase and phase inversion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooms Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 well yes.but in theory if you were to have them exactly the same distance from the cloth you wouldn't have to worry about it.when experimenting with near and far then yeah you'd have that. although again in theory you don't have to fanny around with the placement so much as long as the individual sound from each is good. then just "zoom" right in and shift the waves along so they're in phase.(-as opposed to having to ever so slightly move the mic by 1 mm at a time etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan G Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 I wouldn't touch triggers because i don't and never will have any desire to record 'metal drums'.Triggers and sample replacement is most commonly, or even most *obviously* used in metal, due to the clarity and consistency in hits that you can achieve with the technique. But it was used on other sorts of recordings way before metal. IIRC it was Steely Dan who first started using it.You can blend your mic'd up natural kit recording with samples to what ever level you want, maybe only using a touch of the samples. But this can really add life and missing essential frequencies to drum sounds. It doesn't have to sound completely unnatural like some metal recordings can.But dismissing it on those terms is like saying "I wouldn't own a black t-shirt because it's only for metallers". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan G Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 well yes.but in theory if you were to have them exactly the same distance from the cloth you wouldn't have to worry about it.when experimenting with near and far then yeah you'd have that. although again in theory you don't have to fanny around with the placement so much as long as the individual sound from each is good. then just "zoom" right in and shift the waves along so they're in phase.(-as opposed to having to ever so slightly move the mic by 1 mm at a time etc)My point was more to do with anyone who doesn't know about dual micing, certainly won't be aware of phase issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tam o' Shantie Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 But dismissing it on those terms is like saying "I wouldn't own a black t-shirt because it's only for metallers".I wouldn't, for that very reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooms Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 o_O ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan G Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 I wouldn't, for that very reason.I can't tell if that's a joke or not - but I'm gonna assume it is, based on the fact you used to only wear a leather jacket, and last time I consulted my notes, that's a far more stereotypical garment of metal attire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Caz Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 I listen to metal , wear clothes bought from Burton and have had some semi decent drum recordings from Cpt Toms .... am i no longer elite ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeid Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 This thread is teh lulz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeid Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Anyone here using cab impulses? It's basically a cab modeler, you take your direct input signal into your interface, then run the cab impulse on the DI'd channel. Pick the cab you want and the position you want the mic in etc, voila, super.I guess it's cab replacement. I'm going to experiment with it this weekend when we do some demos. Run the miced signal and then a DI, play around and see which sounds better Apparently it's also good when you record quietly. I don't have a link or anything, just check out teh google Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tam o' Shantie Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 no experience with that one but i did have a few downloaded vsts for a while that did similar things. i think it was IK multimedia's amplitube. It sounded pretty good, but i'm no tone freak...I was using a 50 guitar with it. Fairly convincing, though is all I mean. The Cure For Cancer Has Been Found on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Downloads I recorded this racket a few years ago with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooms Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 I have amplitube as well which is an alright amp / cab modeller. I also have the ampeg SVx model which is quite good.But neither beat the relatively simple/cheap/easy to use PodXT and SansAmp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeid Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 With the impulses, you still use your amp head, it's just another way of tone shaping.I've got the Ampeg SVX and Amplitube software. I can get some fuckin awesome bass sounds with the SVX, I'm very happy with the sounds I've dialled in. I've still told my bass player he should purchase a Sansamp. He's gonna wait and hear Nick's I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threeornothing Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Amplitube is a simulator, whereas a plugin like Revalver uses impulse responses of cabs. Peavey have now bought up this product. I like the sound of this better than my POD because it can really get a gritty sound, the sound of the mic just slightly off phase with the cab, its also good at simulating output distortion...something that people who use amp soaks will never understand...Peavey.com : Products : ReValverTRASH is another great cab simulator, I run my POD into this bypassing the speaker models on the POD and it just sounds great....iZotope Trash - 64-bit distortion, filter, delay and amplifier modelingA great little plug in if you are recording guitars in the box is Acoustic Feedback by SofTube. It works best if you automate it so it kicks in at the right moment so its worth laying down a scratch track first so you know when to kick it in, then any notes you want to leave ringing will work in a sweet way like a cranked valve amp...Acoustic Feedback by Softube Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huw Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 I have amplitube as well which is an alright amp / cab modeller. I also have the ampeg SVx model which is quite good.But neither beat the relatively simple/cheap/easy to use PodXT and SansAmp.would it work to record through a sansamp then into the SVX program? and is it easy enough to apply a VST like this after you've recorded the track? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan G Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Anyone here using cab impulses? It's basically a cab modeler, you take your direct input signal into your interface, then run the cab impulse on the DI'd channel. Pick the cab you want and the position you want the mic in etc, voila, super.I guess it's cab replacement. I'm going to experiment with it this weekend when we do some demos. Run the miced signal and then a DI, play around and see which sounds better Apparently it's also good when you record quietly. I don't have a link or anything, just check out teh google impulses are best used:a) when you want to use your real amp head for tone but can't have the loudness of a cab,b) if you have an amp sim such as a POD but want to run it through better cab sims than the POD comes with.c) don't have good mics/recording environment. Although not as good as micing a real cab (as you don't get speaker excursion and cab resonance etc) you do get some great results, and as such, impulses are the bedroom studio enthusiasts best friend! I've never used them because if I want to do the best recording possible I'll make do with the pod cab sims and then wait to re-amp my stuff through a mesa 4x12 at a later date.Well worth experimenting with though dude, and I could also point you in the direction of some EXCELLENT impulses if you want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooms Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 you could do that way if you wanted.but yes you can run it through the plugin after you've recorded the track.i'd normally always take two signals when recording guitars (and group them together) one a DI signal straight from the guitar and the other being the 'amplified' signal, be that via: pod, sansamp, amp/cab/mic...with the bass you might want to keep both tracks and blend them in. with guitar you'd just mute the DI signal but it's useful to snap to when cutting up the track when you're editing your guitars. Also would be used to re-amp the whole track if you wanted to do it that way (like what dan said above) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooms Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 ...Well worth experimenting with though dude, and I could also point you in the direction of some EXCELLENT impulses if you want?yes please. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeid Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Yeah, hook me up with some as well Dan I'm just demo recording at home, so it's real handy for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan G Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Well here is well known ones that you can purchase, but Jeid - pm me your email and I will send you a demo of the below product, plus some widely acclaimed ones.Recabinet - Album quality guitar tone, direct.EDIT: obvious point, but still: when using impulses make sure your head is plugged into a load!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooms Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 otherwise....kablamo!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyScaryMark Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 well yes.but in theory if you were to have them exactly the same distance from the cloth you wouldn't have to worry about it.when experimenting with near and far then yeah you'd have that. although again in theory you don't have to fanny around with the placement so much as long as the individual sound from each is good. then just "zoom" right in and shift the waves along so they're in phase.(-as opposed to having to ever so slightly move the mic by 1 mm at a time etc)To the best of my knoweldge..... You can never get 2 mics perfectly in phase. It is physically impossible as it isn't just a matter of 1 frequency and waveform. They are out of phase in differnet parts. You can reduce the negative effects caused by this by alligning them more accurately in your DAW and/or using a phase allignment plugin but they will never 100% be in phase.One way to combat potential phase issues when multi micing a guitar cab is to run white noise or any other type of sound through the cab and note if the level meter drops when both mics are switched on. I would recommend getting them in the positions that sound best first and move them the minimal amount to get there.I would however suggest that getting a good sound with 1 mic is generally a better place to start if you are new to recording.....................On original topic.... I have a home recording studio and there are advantages and disadvantages of this but I would suggest before spending any money on equipment you should pick up a good book on home recording. There is also a lot of information available on the internet.You wont get results as good as what you get in a pro studio unless you use pro equipment and are a pro engineer. This probably doesn't matter providing your expectations are in line with what is realisticly achievable. You can however get good results with reasonable equipment if you know how to use it well.A home studio allows you to spend more time on the arrangement of the music than you could when going to a 'real' studio but it also tends to encourage at least one band member to be focusing more on recording than the music. A fairly basic setup will allow you to get some idea of what is involved in recording and to refine your work before possibly going to a more professional studio at a later date, which i would advise doing if you wish to release your work.I have heard many people say they would rather buy the equipment than pay someone else to record them but I think there are very few cases where it will actually save you money. Even a basic system with a 100 interface (or standalone recorder), 200 active monitors, 150 worth of mics and 30 worth of cables is still more than it costs for a weekend in a fairly decent studio. If you use it all the time it might in theory be cheaper but your level of use is going to be limited by neighbours, families, lives etc.--Mark-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooms Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 To the best of my knoweldge..... You can never get 2 mics perfectly in phase. It is physically impossible as it isn't just a matter of 1 frequency and waveform. They are out of phase in differnet parts. You can reduce the negative effects caused by this by alligning them more accurately in your DAW and/or using a phase allignment plugin but they will never 100% be in phase....Just curious, why's that?I would however suggest that getting a good sound with 1 mic is generally a better place to start if you are new to recording.Yeah definitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupot Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 fixed tagsTo the best of my knoweldge..... You can never get 2 mics perfectly in phase. It is physically impossible as it isn't just a matter of 1 frequency and waveform. They are out of phase in differnet parts. You can reduce the negative effects caused by this by alligning them more accurately in your DAW and/or using a phase allignment plugin but they will never 100% be in phase.Not enitrely true. This is why they build stereo pairs and provide phase reversal switches on desks. Also look at the 3.1 rule in mic placement. If you're home recording, you're not likely to have a desk with a phase reverse switch but a good DAW will have them.You can also eliminate phase by using a delay line, but as most budget/mid range delays take at least a millisecond to react, at anything less than six inches mic placement distance, don't bother.If you want big guitars, use one mic touching cloth, then double or treble up the track in the DAW and re-amp the two copies and use radical on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Tom, do you have an example of your Byre recording online? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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