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Guest idol_wild

Aberdeen Venues - what the fuck is going on?

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you have to work to make your gigs successful aswell, you can't just sit back and hope for the best..

Heaven forbid somebody concentrates on writing some decent music instead of being the next Donald fucking Trump.

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Guest calumunderkills
well your not writing your music all the time, you still have to advertise your gigs yourself. All i'm saying is you can help out the promoter, especially if you actually want people to come to your gigs, if no one has heard of you before you think they're just come along because you have a cool name? no, you need to convince them a little, invite them along or just have your friends come along or something.

I agree totally. There are promoters out there who completely rely on the bands to do their job for them, but most of the promoters will be letting people know etc. I think for gigs where the bands are not going to be known to a lot of people, you can't just expect folk to randomly come along, having seen the poster or whatever. You need to do your best to let your mates etc know about the gig and try and persuade them to come down. Surely the more people that are asked to come down, the better?

It just takes a few (or a lot) texts/emails/myspace messages etc and ask folk to come down and support you for your gig. If they don't come, there's not much you can do about it, but you've got to at least try. :up:

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Hmm....let's see...my last 7 gigs have cost me approx. 50 pounds in batteries, at least 70 pounds in rounds of drink etc, some bus fares (let's say 20 quid),....so outlay was at least 140 pounds....income (so far, as payment might still be on the way for 2 gigs) is 30 pounds, although I did also get a nice meal, soft drinks etc at one of them. The loss of 110 pounds suggests now is definitely a good time to retire. As I went part-time at work to concentrate on music it's definitely better for me NOT to play live, as I can't afford it.

(Also....including sound checks, hanging around etc, I've probably used up at least 35 hours of what little's left of my life, so being paid approx. minus 3 pounds an hour isn't going to keep the wolf from the door) :down:

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Hmm....let's see...my last 7 gigs have cost me approx. 50 pounds in batteries, at least 70 pounds in rounds of drink etc, some bus fares (let's say 20 quid),....so outlay was at least 140 pounds....income (so far, as payment might still be on the way for 2 gigs) is 30 pounds, although I did also get a nice meal, soft drinks etc at one of them. The loss of 110 pounds suggests now is definitely a good time to retire. As I went part-time at work to concentrate on music it's definitely better for me NOT to play live, as I can't afford it.

(Also....including sound checks, hanging around etc, I've probably used up at least 35 hours of what little's left of my life, so being paid approx. minus 3 pounds an hour isn't going to keep the wolf from the door) :down:

If you're spending 7 a gig in batteries maybe it's time you invested in some rechargeables.

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I'm with you there. Personally, I work full-time (as i'm sure a lot of people in bands do) and simply don't have time to dick around selling tickets. I've only played one gig where I had to sell tickets and you tend to find that most people would rather just pay at the door if it's not costing them much more and they know it's not going to sell out.

I do however think that bands should do a little bit of self promotion to help out. In the past I've spent time (and money) getting extra flyers and posters done for gigs. It doesn't do any harm.

Conclusion: Promoters shouldn't be expecting band's "mates" to subsidise them putting on gigs. After reading comments on this thread, I think i'd now think twice before handing my money over to someone who thinks this is a healthy way to go about their business.

By giving bands an opportunity to play with headline bands though, its not exactly a big ask for them to take some people with them. I know people work but how hard is it to get mates from work along to support you. Surely as bands you would rather have people watching you? Having done many club nights DJ wise I always made an effort to text all my friends etc to try to make the night more successful and look better. Thats all I ask. Im not expecting miracles!

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Well, I think to put this to rest now .I have a few final things to say...

Firstly I will once again say that I have been promoting for a year and yes, Ive made mistakes and yes I know I can improve. Its a learning curve!

I have taken on board everything said and fairs fair will attempt to make some changes!

Firstly after the two shows I have in November we will not be doing any shows Dec/Jan time but when we come back in Feb...

1 - There will be a payment structure in place for ALL local supports to guarantee them money. This will still be based on the effort made on ticket sales but will take into account the fact that gigs on certain nights will be harder to get people to than at weekends etc. Each band will start with a minimum of 15 (which yes is not a lot) but will then have a scale to work to up to a maximum of 100 for selling 60+ tickets with various steps along the way (it is possible - eg The Trade not even from Aberdeen but regularly manage it up here anyway, Disco Filth etc etc) We will as standard issue contracts to supports detailing this in advance of the show to avoid any confusion.

2 - We will continue to use myspace as a promotion tool and are not ashamed of that. We will however attempt to advertise on one ad for all shows in that time period rather than taking up youre comment section with masses of separate adds. It is fairly easy to refuse these ads if anyone still doesnt want to get them. Surely its slightly less annoying that the porn spam? Actually Id prob rather see that too :)

Hopefully that will erase the two major problems people here seem to have with what we are doing.

___

I also take on board that the wording of the website could be seen as being against local bands - This will be changed to again avoid any unintentional offence caused, though I do have a big thank you to the local bands on the main page already and as Ive said manage 2 local bands as well as being the promoter who has probably put on one of the larger amounts of local bands in the past year.

___

In terms of the argument that it is soley the promoters job to make a gig busy then I dont agree completely but am prepared to say that fair enough, if you dont care if people come to see you then good luck. Maybe you just do it because you enjoy it but from djing I know i enjoy it more if people are there. It cant be fun playing to an empty room. People arent going to come to see you just because I put posters up and advertise for the healiner and if they do its a sad affair but they are likely to largely ignore you anyway.

I do know how hard it is, I try to get my friends to all my gigs too and I know its not always easy. Its the effort I appreciate. Im not in this for the money. I take losses fairly often but thats part of the business I have decided I want to do.

____

Finally if Ive pissed anyone off please talk to me and I will try to sort it out. Im not doing what i do to get slagged off, I do it because I love music and I want to continue bringing quality bands to Aberdeen and yes, continue to give the local bands the opportunity to play with these headliners.

And on the note of Calum from The Underkills, I appreciate the fact you have messaged me and no hard feelings to you (or anyone else for that matter. Given we all want the same thing - a vibrant music scene in Aberdeen - then its prob best we all stick together!

Cheers!

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15, woo!!!!!!!

To be fair, that's quite ample for a young band who may not bring along anyone at all, or cant be assed to bring people along. (as stated by some people already in this thread).

As a promoter you can't promise a 30 minimum pay if you know fine well some bands won't bother to bring anyone along. Then certain headliners might complain about being paid less, the promoter loses cash etc.

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15, woo!!!!!!!

Yeah well thats a rate for selling no tickets whatsoever - if you make an effort then yoiu can get upwards of 75 and if you make a proper effort then you get 50% of the face value meaning even on a 5 ticket you could be looking at 150-200 which in most cases is more than the headliner!

Like I said why should the bands that make the effort get the same pay as those who dont!

Simple!

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As a promoter you can't promise a 30 minimum pay if you know fine well some bands won't bother to bring anyone along. Then certain headliners might complain about being paid less, the promoter loses cash etc.

Yes you can, I know or know of a large amount of people who do. 'Headliners' will be on guarantees 9 times out of 10. If they are getting paid less then quite right that they should complain.

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Yeah well thats a rate for selling no tickets whatsoever - if you make an effort then yoiu can get upwards of 75 and if you make a proper effort then you get 50% of the face value meaning even on a 5 ticket you could be looking at 150-200 which in most cases is more than the headliner!

Like I said why should the bands that make the effort get the same pay as those who dont!

Simple!

You said that bands get a maximum of 100 earlier...

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Yes you can, I know or know of a large amount of people who do. 'Headliners' will be on guarantees 9 times out of 10. If they are getting paid less then quite right that they should complain.

Yes but from my experience, if you say to the support you're allready getting a minimum pay which is fairly decent, a lot of support bands won't bother their arses bringing anyone along. As much as I'm all for promoters doing the promotional work, the supports also have to put in their effort.

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I agree with the argument against having to run around selling tickets. Bands shouldn't have to do that. My friends who went to see my old band (and plenty of them came to the show put on by a particular local promoter who won't be named but whose promotion company is in initials, first one A) were used to paying at the door and didn't see the point in buying tickets. It was made worse by not getting paid until a few weeks after, not by the promoter, but the owner of the venue.

To be fair to this particular promoter, with a north-east city in its name, we did get to play with bands we like and we didn't care so much about the amount of pay, but it's concerning when bands are having to run around selling tickets. I remember a friend of mine saying that he was playing at drummonds, and if he didn't sell a certain number of tickets his band wouldn't get to play the show, despite the fact that there was a pay at the door option. That's a bit of a worry, and it sucks part of the fun of the gigging experience.

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Guest idol_wild
I think that that's very fair. if you wnat to make more money out of it, put in the effort:up:

If you don;t have tike to sell a couple tickets, well then maybe you don;t have enough time to be playing gigs:down:

Firstly - learn to type, spell and punctuate correctly. Please. I had to re-read your post several times to actually discover how exceptionally unintelligent you are.

Selling tickets takes a lot of time and effort running around after people. It's something I feel bands should never ever be left to do. And not having the time to chase people about selling tickets is in no way related to having time for rehearsing and playing gigs. I actually can't believe you connected the two.

As stated earlier in this thread - yes - bands should do their fair share of promotion for their own gigs in terms of myspace alerts, a post here and there on the odd messageboard, firing out some texts and emails, and just mentioning to friends when you see them.

Actually physically shifting the tickets, however, is the job of the promoter.

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For any confusion on payment the structure is on the website in the blog section

Most of my headliners are on % based contracts after a guarantee so if Im guaranteeing a headliner say 100 and then a share of the door after they have been signed, have albums out, have done many tours - I dont see it as unfair to give the local supports a similar based deal and an opportunity to play with these bands.

For thsoe saying they dont have time to sell and their mates just pay at the door, well sell your mates a ticket at the door! Simple!

In the case of whoever mentions the promoter who didnt let a band play becasue they didnt sell tickets - I would never operate a pay to play policy like some promoters - simply ask for a bit of effort and will continue to do so

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