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Stripey

Arty or Sad?

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Ok so we've all heard of suicidegirls dot com :

(worksafe example)

Suicide-Girls.jpg

and seen innumerable people on myspace try to emulate this to varying degrees of success.

What I'm wondering is does having a few culturally specific props such as those commonly used in these type of photoshoots (lollypops, converse canvas sneakers, dreads, wristbands, guitars, tatoos, piercings and so on) imply that these are empowered, educated, post-feminist 21st century women engaged in the creation of art, or are they just todays page 3 slappers getting naked for money?

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Both?! Empowered, educated... and pose in page 3-esque ways?!

I don't know. That picture doesn't seem to have the tackyness of page 3, however, it's quite clearly a perfectly created situation. Perhaps we just have 'alt' girls doing what page 3 girls always have.

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Thats not the debate. I personally couldnt care what they do on the internet. But they're still showing their bodies for money. So, yeah whores.

Apologies if that wasnt directed at me.

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p.s i presume that skirt she's wearing would've gone with the top she would have been wearing before it was removed for the picture!!

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Thats not the debate. I personally couldnt care what they do on the internet. But they're still showing their bodies for money. So, yeah whores.

Apologies if that wasnt directed at me.

not whores, models. exhibitionist ones perhaps but models nonetheless. if she had a cock in her hand while taking the cash then you can start debating the whole pornography/prostitution thing.

would it be any different if it was a guy in that pose?

i don't think it's arty. it's certainly not an art photograph, pose or look. it's a commercial glamour shot. i don't think it's sad either, she looks quite happy and at the end of the day that's all that counts. who are we to judge? we all spend far too much time on computers bitching about each other to get away with calling anyone else sad. :D

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Guest idol_wild
who are we to judge?

The target audience. We are exactly the people to judge.

Personally, I love Suicide Girls though.

They'd get a royal boabin'.

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not whores, models. exhibitionist ones perhaps but models nonetheless. if she had a cock in her hand while taking the cash then you can start debating the whole pornography/prostitution thing.

would it be any different if it was a guy in that pose?

i don't think it's arty. it's certainly not an art photograph, pose or look. it's a commercial glamour shot. i don't think it's sad either, she looks quite happy and at the end of the day that's all that counts. who are we to judge? we all spend far too much time on computers bitching about each other to get away with calling anyone else sad. :D

what he said:up:

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p.s i presume that skirt she's wearing would've gone with the top she would have been wearing before it was removed for the picture!!

She probably has colour-coordinated body hair too but I haven't seen the rest of the pictures.

I just find it really sad that any woman (but they are girls really lets be honest) would resort to doing a naked/semi-naked photoshoot to earn some money.

It's obviously either financial desperation, or raging self-importance coupled with total insecurity where the fact they have a female body and the fact that some man somewhere will want to drool over them is the only thing they have going for them in their sad existence.

There's no difference between a bleached blonde with fake tits posing on the bonnet of a car and some grimey tattooed brunette with piericings posing with a guitar. All they get for their tiny one-off fee is being featured in a set of high-res photos which will be resold and punted on and that will generate money for people further up in the foodchain for years to come.

I just find it really offensive that these girls try to trade on their appearance when it's clear they are basically disfunctional scum who deserve nothing but contempt. What is even worse is the sad men who consume and therefore legitimise this kind of pathetic media.

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For all you know she's using the photograph money to put a fantastic brain through university or support a family.

Easy money... might as well take it. Jealous that your boobies aren't up to scratch? ;)

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For all you know she's using the photograph money to put a fantastic brain through university or support a family.

"fantastic brain" and "doing porn shoots" are mutually exclusive.

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Guest idol_wild
i think you're a twat now.

To be fair, you always did.

Plus, you need to lighten up and understand when a turn of phrase is used for comic effect.

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I just find it really offensive that these girls try to trade on their appearance when it's clear they are basically disfunctional scum who deserve nothing but contempt. What is even worse is the sad men who consume and therefore legitimise this kind of pathetic media.

So you've never enjoyed a bit of porn then?

I smell bullshit.

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So you've never enjoyed a bit of porn then?

I smell bullshit.

What I'm talking about is porn masquerading as art and the lie that if it looks "arty" there is no exploitation involved. Because now it's cool to get yer tits out and earn 50 quid because it means you're exercising your womanly superiority over the men who will look at the picture.

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What I'm talking about is porn masquerading as art and the lie that if it looks "arty" there is no exploitation involved.

I hardly think SG is under the pretence it's a purveyor of "arty" photos of women. They know exactly what they are doing and in my opinion they do it very well (and yes, I'm sure they make lots of cash out of these girls). And so what? Unless someone is putting a gun to these girls heads and asking them to take their clothes off then they are making a concious decision to become "exploited". That's their choice. Or are you suggesting they shouldn't be allowed to have that choice?

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I do think that SG's are exploiting girls (subtley). If you are photographed for SG's you have to sign a contract so you cannot model for anything else. So much for freedom...

Art? Haha, don't think so.

Porn? Yeah, its porn...snigger.

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Who is to say these shots are trying to be arty though? Isn't just an aesthetic that appeals to a different consumer? A fetish? What constitutes the art herein?

One might argue that women are objectivised by men on a daily basis and that this is simply an evening of the score. On the one hand the suicide girl is being reduced to her consumer worth ie wank fodder. And the viewer is reduced to his - in this situation - cash. Who is being exploited? Both? Or neither?

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Who is to say these shots are trying to be arty though? Isn't just an aesthetic that appeals to a different consumer? A fetish? What constitutes the art herein?

You're right, it's just a niche which appeals to a certain market segment, but I totally get the feeling that these models genuinely believe that their hair dye, clothing, tattoo's, piercings and vagina make them attractive, reflect their pesronality and that they are being photographed because of some imagined intrinsic value rather than the fact that someone is going to make a heap of money off selling the photos.

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You're right, it's just a niche which appeals to a certain market segment, but I totally get the feeling that these models genuinely believe that their hair dye, clothing, tattoo's, piercings and vagina make them attractive, reflect their pesronality and that they are being photographed because of some imagined intrinsic value rather than the fact that someone is going to make a heap of money off selling the photos.

You just more angry at the world some weeks more than others? :)

I get what your saying though. Not awfully concerned about it/them though. No doubt some of them are quite clever about it and others/most are just darn stoopid.

It's just a new (part of) version of the continuing feminist argument. 'I'll show my own fanny if I want to coz i'm a woman and this is my choice and it empowers me', 'All right love nae worries. You don't mind if i head to the bog for five mins with your photies do you?'...

For porn and art see Jeff Koons photo shoot he did with his misses at the time chichilina

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Guest Neutral

I'm on the fence with this one, on one hand I don't find the majority of stuff on SG sexy I find most of it to be slutty.

However I think that these photos are more "arty" than they would be if the person was just wearing practical clothing and no or little makeup

Most of the girls would get it if they weren't dressed like hookers

And as for the feminist aspect if they want to get their tits or hole out then let them, its obviously not degrading to them since it is their own choice

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It concerns me that some women just want to be rich and famous for the sake of it, I think this is the motive for these kind of shots.

I think these girls are doing these shots are a quick and easy route to being rich. It may be disguised as art in order to justify it, but I'm sure most women wouldn't be doing it if they didn't get some money. If she has brains and she is not at least trying to use them, that just makes her damn lazy. That's the worse aspect of it, in my opinion.

I've worked as a life model at art school before, so maybe I'm being hypocritical, I don't know. So yeah there are a fair share of folk in Aberdeen who have seen my bits, but I liked working there and it was to help fund my way through uni. Is that the same?

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depends. in essence yes, in motivation, maybe not. the bottom line is you got your tits and ass out for money and so do they. the thing that annoys me with a lot of posts in threads like this is that people purport to know the motivations of those involved. they make their own choice for their own reasons. who is anyone else to judge those.

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