Record Stores face extinction

[Guest Giles Walker]

There's Juno, Boomkat, Turntablelab, Beatport and heaps more i had saved in my bookmarks before my computer died.

Luckily i had backed up my mp3s though so it was alright.

[Stripey]

Adam and Joe's guide to record stores

thanks for that link, so much truth in those videos

[Alkaline]

There's Juno, Boomkat, Turntablelab, Beatport and heaps more i had saved in my bookmarks before my computer died.

They are all pretty "niche market" though.

[Guest Giles Walker]

I'm not seeing folk posting many others, i am guessing you probably use itunes am i right?

I also think many of you probably use this whole "cds are way better than mp3s" argument to justify downloading from limewire and soulseek to yourselves.

[Alkaline]

I'm not seeing folk posting many others, i am guessing you probably use itunes am i right?

I also think many of you probably use this whole "cds are way better than mp3s" argument to justify downloading from limewire and soulseek to yourselves.

I don't use anything. I haven't downloaded any music in a year or so and i only buy CDs and i mainly use the "CDs are better than MP3s" argument because i work in the HiFi business and can actually tell the difference.

I'm not getting involved in the specifics but i don't like MP3 for anything other than for back-up purposes.

[Panda Strong]

I'd take a good hour wander round Monorail over buying tracks over the net any day. I don't think i've ever bought songs online, actually. I just download and buy records.

I don't really know anyone who works in One Up records, but i never really feel comfortable there. There's an air of smugness that i can't seen to shake off about the place. Oh, and the electronic section used to be great downstairs, but i've seen anything new for ages. CD's are a bit pricey as well. I suppose buying from smaller run distro's may have blurred my vision, but hmmmmm.

I remember the chat used to be superb in the Fopp by Queens Street station in Glasgow 4/5 years ago. Those guys are long gone. In fact, one of them works Mono now, i think.

[Stripey]

i mainly use the "CDs are better than MP3s" argument because i work in the HiFi business and can actually tell the difference.

No you can't! There is absolutely no evidence that anybody can discerne any qualitative difference between a properly encoded 320kbps mp3 and a CD. The maths and science behind this make it quite clear, but if you think otherwise please prove it.

[Alkaline]

No you can't! There is absolutely no evidence that anybody can discerne any qualitative difference between a properly encoded 320kbps mp3 and a CD. The maths and science behind this make it quite clear, but if you think otherwise please prove it.

I didn't specify what compression rate i could tell the difference between you pretentious knob.

[Stripey]

I didn't specify what compression rate i could tell the difference between you pretentious knob.

You ought to then before you make blanket statements like "i can tell the difference between an mp3 and a cd".

[Alkaline]

You ought to then before you make blanket statements like "i can tell the difference between an mp3 and a cd".

Why should I? I am certainly not answerable to you for what i do or don't state. Read into it what you like as you certainly do that with 90% of the rest of the material on this site so why change the habit of a lifetime?

As a strict side point, most people don't have access to "properly mastered" 320kbps mp3 tracks so your initial point is not really that valid. There is a hell of a lot of difference between a properly mastered 320kbps mp3 and a ripped using windows media/itunes 320kbps mp3 as you no doubt well know

[Stripey]

There is a hell of a lot of difference between a properly mastered 320kbps mp3 and a ripped using windows media/itunes 320kbps mp3 as you no doubt well know

Can you explain what that difference is in detail please?

[Guest Giles Walker]

I didn't specify what compression rate i could tell the difference between you pretentious knob.

Man you should maybe refrain from calling names when you were the one who wasn't being clear.

Also for the record "mainly use the "CDs are better than MP3s" argument because i work in the HiFi business and can actually tell the difference" sounds kinda pretentious as well.

Now stop being so serious, i think most folk are typing with their tongues firmly in their cheeks.

I still buy loads of records for example, but occasionally i play mp3s or wavs as they sound better in the club if the decks are feeding back badly.

[Alkaline]

Can you explain what that difference is in detail please?

Can you?

I'm assuming we both know how Audio codecs are handled differently by different programs when compression is applied.

I'm also assuming that you would probably be aware that variable bitrates are usually used on professionally mastered mp3s to allow for a higher audio integrity in the final product and to avoid unnecessary clipping.

[Stripey]

Can you?

I'm assuming we both know how Audio codecs are handled differently by different programs when compression is applied.

I'm also assuming that you would probably be aware that variable bitrates are usually used on professionally mastered mp3s to allow for a higher audio integrity in the final product and to avoid unnecessary clipping.

good god man you are wasted on that shop floor with expertise like that.

[Alkaline]

Man you should maybe refrain from calling names when you were the one who wasn't being clear.

For starters i will point out that we all know that Stripey is a pretentious knob

Also for the record "mainly use the "CDs are better than MP3s" argument because i work in the HiFi business and can actually tell the difference" sounds kinda pretentious as well.

Not at all, i have a lot of experience in using both types of equipment and media.

Now stop being so serious, i think most folk are typing with their tongues firmly in their cheeks.

I still buy loads of records for example, but occasionally i play mp3s or wavs as they sound better in the club if the decks are feeding back badly.

I'm just putting my point across. How you choose to take it is entirely your own choice. I was merely stating that your choices of places for obtaining 320kbps downloads do not cater for the mass markets general music buying needs.

[Alkaline]

good god man you are wasted on that shop floor with expertise like that.

That wasn't me explaining in detail either by the way. It's 1am and i'm knackered. I could easily crib something from a white paper but i can't even be bothered doing that

[Stripey]

That wasn't me explaining in detail either by the way. It's 1am and i'm knackered. I could easily crib something from a white paper but i can't even be bothered doing that

I was being sarcastic.

[Alkaline]

I was being sarcastic.

I actually never said that was a detailed explanation. I'm not wrong though. Unless you are prepared to enter your own detailed explanation as to why just to get a bit of "oneupmanship" on the go

[Lemonade]

Agreed...the whole social thing is fun. I can usually find someone to natter to in One-Up. Plus, the physical experience of 'raking' through the racks is good exercise.

I don't know, last time I was in One-Up I wanted to ask somefairly straightforward questions and the girl behind the counter had absolutely no idea what I was talking about. I'm not suggesting that to work in a record shop you should have an encyclopedic knowledge of music but I was only asking about Alice in Chains and Bikini Kill, not exactly obscure bands.

[Stripey]

I actually never said that was a detailed explanation. I'm not wrong though. Unless you are prepared to enter your own detailed explanation as to why just to get a bit of "oneupmanship" on the go

You are wrong actually.

Firstly, here is no such thing as a "mastered" mp3.

Secondly, I defy anyone to be able to tell which application or codec implementation has been used to encode an mp3, just by ear.

Thirdly, the purpose of VBR is to minimise filesizes, not maximise audio quality, it's inferior to constant-bitrate encoding and is fast becoming obselete due to the ubiquity of broadband and large capacity storage devices.

Fourth, "clipping" is nothing to do with bitrates or lossy encoding, you don't even understand the basic terminology.

As has already been pointed out there are loads of places that sell 320kbps or lossless formats like FLAC, it's the defacto standard at any decent mp3 store and frankly if you're buying anything less you're getting ripped off.

[Jeanette]

I've never had such chat in One-Up. I've always heard about it but don't think it ever exists as I never see it.

You know that it's only because my music taste is far superior to yours! :P

Also...Overnight this has all got rather technical! I have no idea what you're all speaking about.... Lol.

I merely enjoy having a physical copy of the music I listen to and going into a music shop for a browse. Browsing online doesnt have the same effect - I find myself guessing what a band might sound like or myspace searching them. Whereas - go into a shop, sometimes the art work can help and you can always ask someone or get a listen.

[Inkster]

This has gone completely off topic! This is not a thread about the difference between cd's and mp3s.

Record stores should never die and it'll be a sad state of affairs if it ever does.

[Alkaline]

You are wrong actually.

Firstly, here is no such thing as a "mastered" mp3.

Secondly, I defy anyone to be able to tell which application or codec implementation has been used to encode an mp3, just by ear.

Thirdly, the purpose of VBR is to minimise filesizes, not maximise audio quality, it's inferior to constant-bitrate encoding and is fast becoming obselete due to the ubiquity of broadband and large capacity storage devices.

Fourth, "clipping" is nothing to do with bitrates or lossy encoding, you don't even understand the basic terminology.

As has already been pointed out there are loads of places that sell 320kbps or lossless formats like FLAC, it's the defacto standard at any decent mp3 store and frankly if you're buying anything less you're getting ripped off.

Apologies, as i said it was 1am and i actually meant encoded. Obviously the difference in programs you use and how quick your computer is affect the overall outcome of your encode.

ATRAC sounds completely different to mp3 and AAC (for example). Listening to mp3 constantly fatigues me, AAC is even worse. ATRAC, whilst being the least convenient, is a lot easier on the ear.

Variable bitrate does lower filesizes but i defy you to be able to tell the difference between a Linear PCM audio track and a variable bitrate lossless coded track like DTS Master Audio HD or Dolby TrueHD for example whereas it is completely possible to tell the difference between any of those three and a compressed track like Vanilla DTS or Dolby Digital. Using those examples i am very confident that i could pick out a lossless or lossy in a blind test on any equipment. They all use much greater bitrates than any of the stuff we are talking about here.

I can tell the difference between a 192kbps and 256kbps (or lower) compressed audio track and a CD. 320kbps would depend on each individual basis. It's a tone thing for me. You can't tell me what my ears can and can't hear no matter how much you'd like to.

Actually any mp3 or lossy codec is a digitally clipped signal so you're wrong, digital clipping is something that is very important in digital sampling. I'm surprised you don't understand that...

[Guest Steven Dedalus]

May I also ask a question of anyone who works in a record store. Why do cd's go up in price after they've fallen out of the charts before dropping say maybe a year later?

I've often seen cd's be 10 or 12 when newly released but suddenly jump to 13-16 3 months later.

The easy answer is linked to distribution. When something first comes out, the shop will be offered discount if they buy in bulk, or whatever, so they can afford to sell it cheaper. After the initial rush of sales on an album, fewer are manufactured, and then they become more expensive for the shop to buy, hence the price leap.

As for CD vs MP3 (or whatever they're called), surely it's the case that soem of us like having a physical product, that being as much a part of the experience as the music, and some of us just go for ease of transport/availability/sound quality/etc.

Everyone listens and accumulates music in different ways and for different reasons. I'm a record collector. I like buying old records and 7" singles. I don't have a record player. So sue me - I still enjoy it.

Record stores suit my way of purchasing music: they're messy, badly laid out, don't have what you're looking for, and full of arrogant dicks. That's what I like about it. In Belfast, I'm reduced to shopping in HMV for stuff, and it's a soul destroying experience. I didn't buy music for a full year because of it (I also didn't need to as my job means I get sent free stuff, but that's neither here nor there...). A shop like One Up was perfect for me.

And I fully take on-board the arrogance accusation - people who work in music stores are frequently VERY arrogant. But there are reasons for it....imagine having to watch hundreds of people evey day buying the same AC/DC album, over and over again, knowing that you hate AC/DC....it drives you mental (repeat with Iron Maiden, Metallica, and Pantera).

After a while, you become narrowminded, and focus entirely upon what you like and nothing else, hence the arrogance!

I'm not trying to excuse it, mind. And I was as guilty of it as anyone else.

But it's still better for me than shopping on-line.

[Guest Giles Walker]

Surely record shops are facing extinction because people are downloading mp3s instead of going into town to buy cds.

So it's not completely off topic.

I can't imagine record shops just ceasing to be, i reckon they will always exist in big towns. In small towns or towns with no strong music scene indie shops will probably die though.

It's all progress.