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The Milner

vinyl releases

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Why do bands persist on releasing their music on a format very few people can listen to? I mean in terms of smaller bands who are only putting out vinals in stead of cds. I find it a bit annoying not being able to buy cds of local stuff i want to listen to, instead i have to buy a cheaply made vinal that i have to go to my parents to listen to.

Someone explain this to me please. Surely the point in releasing an ep/album/single is that you want people to listen to it is it not?

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because vinyl is a superior quality medium and will enable the enthusiast to hear in perfect detail their shitey pisspoor recordings.

Seriously though, I agree with you, it's completely misguided.

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Guest Jake Wifebeater

If paying a small amount of money for a turntable is too harrowing and too much of an effort, it begs the question why you bother listening to music at all.

:up:

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Guest Steven Dedalus

From the perspective of a music fan:

Vinyl is nice. It's bigger than a cd, etc, and the sleeves are nice, and it feels a bit special. There's the slight novelty factor invloved, and if you let your imagination run a bit, you can feel like you were young and excited about music, buying 7" singles and keeping them in a wee box or something.

In short: the romanticism. (don't laugh at me.)

From the perspective of a record label/retailer:

A limited vinyl release can increase the 'hip' factor of your band for the reasons mentioned above. By releasing on vinyl, you can 'prove' that your band "cares about music, man. We're not just about shitty cds, we're about real music."

Then you release it in strictly limited number, watch as they're all snapped up by collectors, making it a rare, collectible item, and then re-release it on cd, causing the vinyl to skyrocket in value, and give the band a talking point.

See: The Arctic Monkeys (I believe Phillip did exactly what I describe above, and sold their first single for a pretty penny on ebay).

In conclusion: part genuine gesture, part marketing ploy, vinyl still has it's place in guitar music and is going nowhere.

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From the perspective of a music fan:

Vinyl is nice. It's bigger than a cd, etc, and the sleeves are nice, and it feels a bit special. There's the slight novelty factor invloved, and if you let your imagination run a bit, you can feel like you were young and excited about music, buying 7" singles and keeping them in a wee box or something.

In short: the romanticism. (don't laugh at me.)

From the perspective of a record label/retailer:

A limited vinyl release can increase the 'hip' factor of your band for the reasons mentioned above. By releasing on vinyl, you can 'prove' that your band "cares about music, man. We're not just about shitty cds, we're about real music."

Then you release it in strictly limited number, watch as they're all snapped up by collectors, making it a rare, collectible item, and then re-release it on cd, causing the vinyl to skyrocket in value, and give the band a talking point.

See: The Arctic Monkeys (I believe Phillip did exactly what I describe above, and sold their first single for a pretty penny on ebay).

In conclusion: part genuine gesture, part marketing ploy, vinyl still has it's place in guitar music and is going nowhere.

It's not really a genuine gesture atall, it just proves you've got a spare couple of hundred quid to pay for the pressing.

In this day and age, for guitar music, it's just an empty fashion statement, but then again so is most of the music - harking back to the 60's/70's.

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From the perspective of a record label/retailer:

A limited vinyl release can increase the 'hip' factor of your band for the reasons mentioned above. By releasing on vinyl, you can 'prove' that your band "cares about music, man. We're not just about shitty cds, we're about real music."

Then you release it in strictly limited number, watch as they're all snapped up by collectors, making it a rare, collectible item, and then re-release it on cd, causing the vinyl to skyrocket in value, and give the band a talking point.

In conclusion: part genuine gesture, part marketing ploy, vinyl still has it's place in guitar music and is going nowhere.

Hahahaa...oh man.

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Guest idol_wild
From the perspective of a music fan:

Vinyl is nice. It's bigger than a cd, etc, and the sleeves are nice, and it feels a bit special. There's the slight novelty factor invloved, and if you let your imagination run a bit, you can feel like you were young and excited about music, buying 7" singles and keeping them in a wee box or something.

In short: the romanticism. (don't laugh at me.)

From the perspective of a record label/retailer:

A limited vinyl release can increase the 'hip' factor of your band for the reasons mentioned above. By releasing on vinyl, you can 'prove' that your band "cares about music, man. We're not just about shitty cds, we're about real music."

Then you release it in strictly limited number, watch as they're all snapped up by collectors, making it a rare, collectible item, and then re-release it on cd, causing the vinyl to skyrocket in value, and give the band a talking point.

See: The Arctic Monkeys (I believe Phillip did exactly what I describe above, and sold their first single for a pretty penny on ebay).

In conclusion: part genuine gesture, part marketing ploy, vinyl still has it's place in guitar music and is going nowhere.

I actually agree with pretty much all of this. I'm no longer a massive fan of vinyl. I like to listen to music in it's optimum sonic capacity, without losing it's quality. Some people revel in the overall "sound" vinyl has. But I think it's tripe, so I prefer CDs and MP3s. Vinyl is for purists; I just want to listen to the music :music: and get as much out of it that I possibly can. I don't want to own an unnecessary piece of large plastic.

And yes, when I worked at One Up, I bought the first Arctic Monkeys 7" at staff price for little over 1. A week later I had shifted it on ebay for over 22. :king:

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If paying a small amount of money for a turntable is too harrowing and too much of an effort, it begs the question why you bother listening to music at all.

:up:

ive got decks that cost my close to a grand but they will eat up the cheap vinal most bands release. Good try tho.

I do see the points being made but it still annoys me, the xcerts are a prime example, i love thier new song, yet when i want to listen to it i have to listen through shitty myspace and if i want it at home i can only get in on vinal which was made so poorly it barely plays on a record player anyway. 10EW the same, yeah its a nice looking green vinal but where is the cd release to back it up?

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Guest Jake Wifebeater
ive got decks that cost my close to a grand but they will eat up the cheap vinal most bands release. Good try tho.

I do see the points being made but it still annoys me, the xcerts are a prime example, i love thier new song, yet when i want to listen to it i have to listen through shitty myspace and if i want it at home i can only get in on vinal which was made so poorly it barely plays on a record player anyway. 10EW the same, yeah its a nice looking green vinal but where is the cd release to back it up?

Quality of the vinyl pressing shouldn't really affect it that much. I bought my stereo about 10 years ago for the princely sum of 30 and it's never even needed a needle change and plays all slabs like a dream, including flexis. I do have the odd ep where the pressing isn't brilliant, but that's easily solved by placing a 2p coin on the end of the stylus arm above the needle. That usually takes out the jumps for good. Seriously, I'd scour the Parochial and Jaundiced and Scot-Ads. The British Heart Foundation electricals shop is also worth a look. All told, you could easily pick up a good sound system for about the cost of 2 CD's. Can't be bad, eh? Happy hunting.

:up:

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Quality of the vinyl pressing shouldn't really affect it that much. I bought my stereo about 10 years ago for the princely sum of 30 and it's never even needed a needle change and plays all slabs like a dream, including flexis. I do have the odd ep where the pressing isn't brilliant, but that's easily solved by placing a 2p coin on the end of the stylus arm above the needle. That usually takes out the jumps for good. Seriously, I'd scour the Parochial and Jaundiced and Scot-Ads. The British Heart Foundation electricals shop is also worth a look. All told, you could easily pick up a good sound system for about the cost of 2 CD's. Can't be bad, eh? Happy hunting.

:up:

i was meaning more the whole in the middle is so badly made it barely holds onto the record. Ive got the 2p's on the stylis already :up: an old trick i learnt a while back.

I do see your point that it is not that expensive to buy a vinal player, but it still begs the question, when most people have instant acess to mp3 or cd players then why would you release your music on a format most people couldnt listen to?

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Guest Jake Wifebeater
i was meaning more the whole in the middle is so badly made it barely holds onto the record. Ive got the 2p's on the stylis already :up: an old trick i learnt a while back.

I do see your point that it is not that expensive to buy a vinal player, but it still begs the question, when most people have instant acess to mp3 or cd players then why would you release your music on a format most people couldnt listen to?

The hole in the middle problem can be solved by carefully wedging a biro pen top in and then gently twisting until the hole is the right size (whoops, sorry vicar). That one works for me every time, although it's a delicate job.

This instant access thing is all very well, but for me nothing beats having an actual, tangible release in your grubby mitts as opposed to a file on a computer. Vinyl will always be my favourite format, but I still buy loads of Cd's and *gasp* cassettes. I'm not arsed if that makes me an old-school Luddite or whatever, I just know what I like.

Oh, I take back my opening snipe as well. I didn't know you'd spent a whore's ransom on decks.

:up:

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Guest Steven Dedalus
Hahahaa...oh man.

Yr right. I turned 27, and it was like a switch went off in my head: "EVERYTHING NEW IS BAD."

Although I sort of felt like that for the last decade anyway...

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Guest Tam o' Shantie
10EW the same, yeah its a nice looking green vinal but where is the cd release to back it up?

all other arguments aside, both sides of the single are available as commercial mp3 downloads on ituntes etc :up:

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all other arguments aside, both sides of the single are available as commercial mp3 downloads on ituntes etc :up:

that makes sense now at least i can have it at home as well as having a nice green vinal for the wall.

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The hole in the middle problem can be solved by carefully wedging a biro pen top in and then gently twisting until the hole is the right size (whoops, sorry vicar). That one works for me every time, although it's a delicate job.

This instant access thing is all very well, but for me nothing beats having an actual, tangible release in your grubby mitts as opposed to a file on a computer. Vinyl will always be my favourite format, but I still buy loads of Cd's and *gasp* cassettes. I'm not arsed if that makes me an old-school Luddite or whatever, I just know what I like.

Oh, I take back my opening snipe as well. I didn't know you'd spent a whore's ransom on decks.

:up:

but what about when the hole has been made too big in the first place?

I know what you mean about having an actual product but why buy a product you may not be able to ever use? How many people now-a-days do you think actually have vinal players in their homes?

And yes they most definately seen me coming when i bought the decks :p

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i like vinyl. it represents value for money. i like the asthetics of artwork. I like holding it in my hand.

I think that CDs are the biggest swindle since time began. they cost fuck all to produce on the mass market yet everybody still forks out 12 for em. Whilst I do buy CDs, its not often and its generally supporting smaller bands

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i've read that vinyl is generally mastered better than cds, because cds are mastered to compete in the loudness war, and this isnt possible with vinyl.

i dont own any vinyl but i love the warm sound to it and i like the fact that its the uncompressed analogue recording in all its original glory.

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i've read that vinyl is generally mastered better than cds, because cds are mastered to compete in the loudness war, and this isnt possible with vinyl.

Actually the opposite is true, physical limitations of the vinyl medium restrict what you can put on the record or you risk needle jumping on playback or damaging the cutting head on pressing.

The loudness war thing applies equally to vinyl as it does to cd's or any other medium.

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Too much music on one side of vinyl affects the thickness of the grooves or something and reduces the sound quality

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Actually the opposite is true, physical limitations of the vinyl medium restrict what you can put on the record or you risk needle jumping on playback or damaging the cutting head on pressing.

The loudness war thing applies equally to vinyl as it does to cd's or any other medium.

How is that the opposite?

If vinyl cannot be mastered to be louder due to physical limitations, then how can it apply equally?

?(

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How is that the opposite?

If vinyl cannot be mastered to be louder due to physical limitations, then how can it apply equally?

?(

the mastering you're talking about is done before the recording goes to be duplicated, wether thats on vinyl, cd or cassette etc. Anyone can limit the dynamics out of a track and make it "louder" then send it off to be put onto any medium.

The problem with vinyl is that deep bass frequencies cause excessive needle excursion, reducing the amount of time available per side and increase the likelyhood of jumping. Stereo seperation, especially on the low end makes this worse. Unlike digital mediums or tape, a recording has to be further manipulated _after_ studio mastering in order to make it work on vinyl, and this usually means reducing stereo seperation and further eq'ing, in this respect you lose some control over the final product.

This isn't an issue with CD's though, there's nothing stopping you having tons of low frequencies being heavily panned etc, so in effect a digital medium potentially gives you a more honest reproduction.

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Ok, I admit that the loudness war most likely has nothing to do with bands releasing on vinyl and not cd.

Back off topic though, if you've heard some of the extreme examples of the loudness war, have a look and see if you can find out who mastered the cd version and the vinyl version.

"Californication" by RHCP is a famous one, mastered by Vlado Meller. I couldn't see on discogs.com who mastered the vinyl of that, but with the more recent "Stadium Arcadium", the cd version was mastered by Vlado Meller and the vinyl by Kevin Gray and Steve Hoffman.

I've heard that a lot of bands have their vinyls mastered seperately to their cds. Whether or not they limit the dynamics and then adjust the EQ etc the way Stripey described, or simply master it to sound good, I can only speculate, I suppose it depends on how important panning and stuff are to the record company.

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So I just looked into this and saw a spectral analysis of both the vinyl and digital versions of a song from Stadium Arcadium and it turns out that no compression was used on the vinyl, unlike the digital version.

So at least some, if not most vinyl is mastered better (ie. not just for loudness) than cd.

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