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Ghosts / Paranormal thread

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Eddie Izzard was on Q.I. once and he said "Why aren't there any cow ghosts? Or dinosaur ghosts?" Which, IMO, is a good point. Why is it only humans that get ghosts? And maybe the odd dog or 2. Doesn't make sense.

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Eddie Izzard was on Q.I. once and he said "Why aren't there any cow ghosts? Or dinosaur ghosts?" Which, IMO, is a good point. Why is it only humans that get ghosts? And maybe the odd dog or 2. Doesn't make sense.

There are numerous reports of animal hauntings. I'd link you if I could be assed or not posting from work just now. Easily found on google, though.

Dinosaurs? You've got me on that one.

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Isn't one of the major theories around spirits is that they roam around until they feel their spirit/soul is appeased and at rest? If there was Dinosaur ghosts, since it's been millions of years since they kicked the bucket, if they did saunter around in spirit form, they'd probably had enough of it and buggered off well before we got the chance to see it.

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I've been reading a lot about apparent hauntings in Okinawa, Japan - the scene of some of the fiercest and most bitter fighting in World War II - and there are some excellent accounts of seemingly unexplained incidents from modern day marines stationed there.

Here's what a CCTV camera apparently captured:

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I've been reading a lot about apparent hauntings in Okinawa, Japan - the scene of some of the fiercest and most bitter fighting in World War II - and there are some excellent accounts of seemingly unexplained incidents from modern day marines stationed there.

Here's what a CCTV camera apparently captured:

Hmmm, devil's advocate in me says that that would easily be replicated as a shadow with something in front of one of the lights that are clearly shining from behind the camera.

Looks pretty cool regardless though.

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Hmmm, devil's advocate in me says that that would easily be replicated as a shadow with something in front of one of the lights that are clearly shining from behind the camera.

Looks pretty cool regardless though.

Yeah, I think there will be plenty of theories to debunk this one but I can't find any related - which isn't usually the case with such videos. Either way, it certainly looks great. Definitely one of the better ones I've seen, as most tend to be shit and clearly faked.

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DO you have any links? we seem to have quite mutual strong interest in this stuff.

Not from Okinawa itself, but another well-written account from a Sergeant in the Marine Corps in 2004:

Haunting in Iwakuni Japan | Ghosts & Hauntings | True Ghost Tales

The primary tales from Okinawa involve a small building, formerly a dwelling but nobody could stand living there any longer, which became a storage building, on the boundary of Kadena Airbase. Google search "kadena air base 2283" and you'll pick up many links. Apparently it has recently been knocked down because of all the activity.

The other repeated tale is at Camp Hansen, Gate 3, where a marine in bloodied fatigues holds a cigarette and asks the guard on duty: "Gotta light?" before disappearing. Again, Google search "camp hansen gate 3" and you'll get plenty of returns.

The thing about these is, if the frequency of the reports was so high, why didn't they set up surveillance measures in an attempt to capture it? Weakens the claims a little.

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I've had a few unexplained potential "ghost" experiences in my life time.

Often I've seen a figure walking past windows or walking out of a room. Sometimes its linked with the feeling like there is someone there or maybe I would just feel some thing moving behind me and turn around and see a shadow disapear. The figure is always black like a shadow with no features. I remember as a kid describing it like a biker in all black leathers and a black helmet.

I also sometimes get a draft blown across my face in random situations, usually before I'm about to do something dodgy with some piece of heavy machinery. It's probably easily explainable. It used to happen a lot offshore where there are ducts and vents all over the shop but it is always just like a puff of air rather than constant air flow. Personally I like to think its someone telling me to wise the fuck up! Its just a way of dealing with death for me but I'm happy with believing it, I don't care if someone can prove its bollocks! Keeps me from going mental...... :up:

edit: forgot to add, really believe vibrations and low frequency sound can have an effect on the brain that we really don't understand.

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I used to stay in a refurbished farmhouse, and would wake up because my bed was shaking. I've got no explanation for it but it used to freak the shit out of me.

My little sister was about 3 at the time and used to start screaming and crying that she could see a little baby on the stairs, and whenever we would go through to check there was obviously nothing there, but it got her really upset.

Also, everyone in the house had a moment when they had thought someone was walking past the kitchen window.

It was just a freaky old house, constantly creaking.

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The "Slender Man" is clearly a rip off of an old school scarefest:

For younger forumers, this is a clip from an educational video shown in AV rooms up and down the country that kept thousands of kids awake at night. The one with the haunted mansion was pretty creepy too. But just as real the Slender Mannie!!!

Ghosts are like religion - you either get it or don't! I always love Derren Brown rubbishing the supernatural, though. He can break whole careers in a matter of minutes!!!

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Read all about it and watched the videos. Not convinced in the slightest, it's just some project a few people put together. Why would the guy, Jay, make the entries theatrical like that? Load of shit.

Hey, fuck you.

I think it's really interesting, if probably not true. Still creepy as.

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I used to stay in a refurbished farmhouse, and would wake up because my bed was shaking. I've got no explanation for it but it used to freak the shit out of me.

When you say shaking, do you mean proper shaking like exorcist style?

Any of that shit and I'd be out of there like a shot. o_O

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But until there is hard evidence to disprove the existence of ghosts, the afterlife, the Spirit World, or anything remotely paranormal, then I have no reason to believe that it is impossible for these things to exist. To my ears, eyes, and comprehension there is considerably more evidence to suggest that these things are possible, rather than impossible.

The problem with this is, it is impossible to disprove that something exists. the burden of proof always lies with someone making extraordinary claims. I became aware of this when I did a lot of reading and thinking about the existence of God, but it equally applies to the paranormal or supernatural.

Bertrand Russell came up with a good analogy for it, known as "Russell's Teapot". From the Wikipedia article -

"Russell's teapot, sometimes called the Celestial teapot, Cosmic teapot or Bertrand's teapot, is an analogy first coined by the philosopher Bertrand Russell (18721970), to illustrate the idea that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making scientifically unfalsifiable claims rather than shifting the burden of proof to others

In an article titled "Is There a God?" commissioned, but never published, by Illustrated magazine in 1952, Russell wrote:

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time."

Like I say, the analogy was specifically about the existence of a God, but it applies to any fantastical claim.

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The problem with this is, it is impossible to disprove that something exists. the burden of proof always lies with someone making extraordinary claims. I became aware of this when I did a lot of reading and thinking about the existence of God, but it equally applies to the paranormal or supernatural.

Bertrand Russell came up with a good analogy for it, known as "Russell's Teapot". From the Wikipedia article -

"Russell's teapot, sometimes called the Celestial teapot, Cosmic teapot or Bertrand's teapot, is an analogy first coined by the philosopher Bertrand Russell (18721970), to illustrate the idea that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making scientifically unfalsifiable claims rather than shifting the burden of proof to others

In an article titled "Is There a God?" commissioned, but never published, by Illustrated magazine in 1952, Russell wrote:

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time."

Like I say, the analogy was specifically about the existence of a God, but it applies to any fantastical claim.

Yeah. So it's all cool that I believe that ghosts and hauntings exist then. There is no problem whatsoever.

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Yeah man, I didn't mean I personally have a problem with any specific belief of yours. I just meant that if you were waiting "until there is hard evidence to disprove the existence of ghosts" then it would be a long wait, because by definition there can't be.

Apologies if it sounded terse, but the internet does that!

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Yeah man, I didn't mean I personally have a problem with any specific belief of yours. I just meant that if you were waiting "until there is hard evidence to disprove the existence of ghosts" then it would be a long wait, because by definition there can't be.

Apologies if it sounded terse, but the internet does that!

It's cool. The analogy is a good one, and a number of regular users on these forums have raised a similar analogy between the paranormal/supernatural and religion, and it's a valid point.

That said, although I don't have stats to back this up, I'd suggest the number of people who were initially sceptical about the paranormal and wholeheartedly change their views due to a profound personal experience, far outweighs those who initially believe, only for their beliefs to wane. If one draws parallels to religion in this regard, I'd perhaps venture to suggest there are considerably more people who find their intense levels of faith wane due to personal experiences, compared to the number of people who had no previous religious inclination suddenly cultivating strong religious beliefs or inclinations.

I'm not entirely sure what the point is that I'm attempting to make. I guess I'm trying to say that's why I hold a greater level of credence towards the paranormal or supernatural than I do religion. But then, I consider myself agnostic, and I also discovered a long time ago that the supernatural/paranormal and religion quite often tend to be implicitly linked, so I definitely have a lot of thinking to do. And reading. And living.

Cool story, hombre.

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I'm pretty sure your ideas about personal experience would be close to the truth. Certainly most of the people I have spoken to about this have said something along the lines of "I know that ghosts are real, because this one time (insert your own ghost story here)".

I actually think there's a pretty big parallel with astrology, in that a lot of people who believe in it do so purely because they really want it to be true.

Having said all that, I do find these unexplained paranormal stories fascinating reads.

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The problem with this is, it is impossible to disprove that something exists. the burden of proof always lies with someone making extraordinary claims. I became aware of this when I did a lot of reading and thinking about the existence of God, but it equally applies to the paranormal or supernatural.

Bertrand Russell came up with a good analogy for it, known as "Russell's Teapot". From the Wikipedia article -

"Russell's teapot, sometimes called the Celestial teapot, Cosmic teapot or Bertrand's teapot, is an analogy first coined by the philosopher Bertrand Russell (18721970), to illustrate the idea that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making scientifically unfalsifiable claims rather than shifting the burden of proof to others

In an article titled "Is There a God?" commissioned, but never published, by Illustrated magazine in 1952, Russell wrote:

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time."

Like I say, the analogy was specifically about the existence of a God, but it applies to any fantastical claim.

I think Russell rather apes Garrisons "Flying Spaghetti Monster" analogy here.

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I like the Idea of "If an adult were to look through the eye's of a child they'd go insane".

I used to see loads of freaky shit when I was a kid and lucid dream quite a lot.

I said I don't believe in ghosts, but I have had some weird experiences which I'm putting down to just lucid and realistic dreams. Except one which I'm unsure if I was dreaming of if there was a ghost...

When we were little me and my younger sister shared a room. I was top bunk, she was bottom and one night I woke up in the middle of the night and saw her walking across the room. My sister never got out of bed for anything, so I was like "Billie? What you doing?" and she just stopped. I looked down and my sister was in bed. I looked up to see some random girl looking at me. Safe to say I shoved my head under my covers and never got out of bed at night for a good year. Scary stuff.

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When you say shaking, do you mean proper shaking like exorcist style?

Any of that shit and I'd be out of there like a shot. o_O

As in the whole mattress would be shaking, so I would be woken up and I was moved side to side. It was freaky as hell.

I also used to smell flowers a lot when I was little, usually around bedtime. My gran used to say "oh that's when a ghost visits you" but I've since learned this was probably childhood epilepsy and the smell just changed when I got older.

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I'd sometimes be able to turn my head and move when it was happening, so it wasn't sleep paralysis. Some occasions I would feel as if I was being held down, which was probably because the my body was still asleep.

It'll be an explanation along those lines though, I don't doubt that. It was just horrible at the time and usually people's first reaction was to say that the house was haunted.

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I'd sometimes be able to turn my head and move when it was happening, so it wasn't sleep paralysis. Some occasions I would feel as if I was being held down, which was probably because the my body was still asleep.

It'll be an explanation along those lines though, I don't doubt that. It was just horrible at the time and usually people's first reaction was to say that the house was haunted.

You don't have to be completely paralysed... a feeling of being held down sounds an awful lot like sleep paralysis. Googling "bed shaking" brings up various explanations, both SP and similar experiences. And demons and UFOs of course.

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I read some creepy pasta and then read up about SP. Safe to say I always try to fall asleep on my face or side as I read that a way of self inducing it is to fall asleep on your back (amongst other things). No ta.

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