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Distortion


Guest Bob

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Mesa Boogie V-Twin?

Not a hope. You'd be as well spending the extra couple of hundred quid and getting a good amp.

Maxi.. different strokes for different folks I guess. I'm sure the amp choice is the best way forward though. Bob, you should try some shit out...

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I tried a metal muff in R&B and thought it was very similar in sound to the Boss Metal Zone, but not quite as versatile.

sounds painful. although Kurt Ballou from Converge uses a Metal Zone and it sounds cool as fuck.

someone told me that the metal muff doesn't give enough of the low end aswell. apparently an equaliser with the bass frequencies boosted made it sound a lot better.

Stomp Boxes are easy to use and a lot cheaper than an amp, but for the perfect drive/distortion sound you have to sacrifice something from the clean and vice versa. never good. better off just getting a valve amp with a nice thick drive channel.

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' date=' post: 427717"']sounds painful. although Kurt Ballou from Converge uses a Metal Zone and it sounds cool as fuck.

If you use it properly (don't just whack the gain up to full and scoop the mids) a metal zone can sound pretty great (a half decent guitar and amp to put it through will obviously help as well) and give you a decent range of sounds. I've used them for years.

When mine broke a while back I went and tried out a heap of different distortion pedals and didn't find any (in R&B's range) that were any better.

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The more circuitry an amp has, the more tone it loses. IC stages especially are best avoided. The more knobs on the front of an amp, the more tone it loses. The more functions an amp has the more tone it loses. That's just physics.

Of course an expensive high quality multifunction amp will still (usually) sound much better than a cheap crap one that has no features.

But if you take Engle for example, we have a super duper multi channel one (alas flexibility is necessary with house equipment), and it doesn't sound nearly as good as it's little brother.

So why bother retaining your existing amp if you don't like the distortion channel Bob? All that circuitry is just sitting their sucking up tone.

The best tone I've heard from an amp comes from things that are point to point wired, have no IC stage, and no distortion channel. Hiwatt, Harry Joyce etc.

But to get good distrtion you also need a separate tube pedal to go with it. I disagree with Maxi here in that you'd be better of getting an amp with a distortion channel... see any HiFi buff will tell you that separates produce better fidelity and therefore tone because there is no chance of their circuitry interfering with each other. Which is why in a good HFI they separate the preamp and the poweramp into separate boxes. The distortion in a good amp is usually achieved by overdriving a tube preamp, and that will actually perform better, and interfere less with your clean (and only) channel if it's in a separate box with it's own power supply, preferably with a DC adaptor!

Just make sure that the tub pedal is pointo to point wired and lacks an IC.

Then you're laughing.

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I would have thought that a battery would create less noise interference?

Not all of them can be powered by battery. The battery works fine provided it's in good nick.

A good AC - DC convertor will be fine, especially if it's in a separate box and not part of the unit.

If anyone wants to test any of this out, then come along to our jam with your pedals and play through our Hiwatt. The difference in clean tone between the Hiwatt and a multi function amp is quite astonishing.

(PS I hate this edit rule as I just noticed a typo in my original post 'their' should be 'there')

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Wasnt having a dig! I use a DC converter, not even a good one, but doesnt seem to be detremental to my sound. Just would have thought ideally if you can afford 20 of batterys a gig it would be slightly less noisy in your chain.

I also have a single channel amp (Sovtek Mig100), and the clean really is quite something special compared to multi function amps.

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Wasnt having a dig! I use a DC converter, not even a good one, but doesnt seem to be detremental to my sound. Just would have thought ideally if you can afford 20 of batterys a gig it would be slightly less noisy in your chain.

I also have a single channel amp (Sovtek Mig100), and the clean really is quite something special compared to multi function amps.

That's OK I didn't think you were. Sorry if my post read that way.

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If you use it properly (don't just whack the gain up to full and scoop the mids) a metal zone can sound pretty great (a half decent guitar and amp to put it through will obviously help as well) and give you a decent range of sounds. I've used them for years.

When mine broke a while back I went and tried out a heap of different distortion pedals and didn't find any (in R&B's range) that were any better.

A lot of people don't like the metal zone and say all kinds of bad things about it but I think it can be usefull. You can get a huge range of sounds from it, the eq controls have a lot of range in them. Of course it depends what you hope to acheive. I'm not normaly hoping to get a 'nice' sound when I choose to use the Metal Zone haha. It has quite a harsh distortion sound.

If you are looking for a warmer more natural (amp-like) tone then the RAT is a good, cheap alternative. You might want to try 'boosting' your distortion tone with an overdrive or distortion pedal, that sometimes gets good results as it keeps much of the fullness of the amp sound.

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If you use it properly (don't just whack the gain up to full and scoop the mids) a metal zone can sound pretty great (a half decent guitar and amp to put it through will obviously help as well) and give you a decent range of sounds. I've used them for years.

When mine broke a while back I went and tried out a heap of different distortion pedals and didn't find any (in R&B's range) that were any better.

yeah. i don't. i used to have my gain on 2 or 3. and the mids around 7. sounded ok, but always felt it lacked clarity. even with my tele. mind you i was playing through a line 6 spider :rolleyes:

if there is only one guitar in a band it seems to sit a lot better, cuts through nicely. any more than that its just fizz.

i am surprised you couldn't find anything better though. i've been trying it out with my bass recently and i just cant get any presence. ill keep trying though cause it does sound cool.

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' date=' post: 427728"']

i am surprised you couldn't find anything better though.

Well I was looking for something that would give a good metal sound while being versatile enough to back off to something more laid back if I wanted it. There were specialist pedals that did the single things better than the Metal Zone but none that did both as well.

If I had more money I'd go down the amp route, or even just buy a couple of different distortion pedals that are fucking brilliant at certain sounds.

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But if you take Engle for example' date=' we have a super duper multi channel one (alas flexibility is necessary with house equipment), and it doesn't sound nearly as good as it's little brother.

[/quote']

I take it you are referring to the Fireball?

I found the Fireball to sound too harsh in comparison to the Powerball. The Powerball is just alot more refined (IMO of course).

Saying that, my new ENGL, the SE, has 31 billion knobs* and I prefer the sound of it to the Powerball - alot more cutting. Still in the process of tweaking it to get the right sound for gigging circumstances mind.

:up:

*not really, but plenty!

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I used to play an LTD Viper 50 through a metal zone and worn down Marshall 100w Valvestate, and Maxwell can be quoted as once saying "great fucking tone" about that setup.

yeah. I make shit stuff sound good. How fucking ace am I!? (I did have a really nice Marshall 1960s 4x12, but shhh!)

On a side note, A Metal Zone is prob the only pedal I'll ever use. Cos I like dirty guitar sounds.

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I used to play an LTD Viper 50 through a metal zone and worn down Marshall 100w Valvestate, and Maxwell can be quoted as once saying "great fucking tone" about that setup.

.

That's what I used to use back in my Loaded days - as long as it was a 'valvestate' (which were great) rather than an AVT which were pretty minging. Metal zone pedals sound far better through a solid state amp rather than a tube amp though. After the 100W valvestate combo, I moved onto the Marshall DSL50 head/cab set-up and ditched the Metalzone. Some kid once insisted on borrowing my head but using a metalzone distortion instead of the amp's distortion. I tried to convice him otherwise... and it sounded awful.

I can't imagine that Bob is quite after the same sounds as you (or I) were though...

However none of this 'tone' business matters if you don't:

a) know how to set up an amp very well, and/or

b) don't have good tone in your fingers.

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However none of this 'tone' business matters if you don't:

a) know how to set up an amp very well, and/or

b) don't have good tone in your fingers.

I agree with A 110%

B is the difference between making shite gear sound good and not. you can get away with being shite if you have good gear, i have pretty poor technique with a bass guitar (given that I am a guitar player). my tone is good because I play every gig with an SVT classic, USA Jazz and Ampeg 8x10. I wouldnt play a gig without them.

guys with fingertone make shit gear sound quite passable

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Some kid once insisted on borrowing my head but using a metalzone distortion instead of the amp's distortion. I tried to convice him otherwise... and it sounded awful.

Gah that pisses me off something chronic too!

"You can use the Powerball if you like dude, it's all set up ready to go so if you want to use it, feel free."

"Ace thanks, it sounds awesome so I'll gladly use it."

*Puts Digitech Death Metal/Metal Master/The Weapon (can't recall which, I remember it was one of them though) through it.

:|

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And the difference between making good gear sound decent or very good!

Dimebag would have probably had rubbish tone if he wasn't so amazing.

agreed. but regardless of why it was, he had fucking AMAZING tone. I'm sure I heard he was in a studio and fiddling about with a new amp and when he heard the tone he made everyone stop and nobody was allowed to touch anything.
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