Emo/metalcore...genres..subjective etc.

[Old Gold]

I did think this argument was quite silly, but then I realised that even I get a bit miffed when I see any old pap acoustic music being described as 'folk', simply because their guitar isn't electric.

If you can't understand why shit bands being labelled 'emo' annoys some people... it's a lot like a housewive's sleazy novel being described as a piece of Romantic literature.

[medichi]

Are bands like Cannibal Corpse and Dying Fetus even underground?

Actually, that's quite interesting - is anything "underground" anymore, seeing as most unsigned bands have a website and access is just a click away?

[Dan G]

Actually, that's quite interesting - is anything "underground" anymore, seeing as most unsigned bands have a website and access is just a click away?

I don't think it's as much about being "underground" as much as it is about being credible and cool.

It's always been accepted by everyone to say you like Pantera and Slayer, yet those are two of the biggest names in metal.

What makes a band cool is hard to put into words, but if I play a gig wearing a Cryptopsy, Dying Fetus or Death shirt kids always come up and say "man, nice shirt" or Cryptopsy are amazing dude" or words to that effect. Yet when I wear a Megadeth or Maiden shirt I never get that because those bands aren't seen to be as cool as the others.

In much the same way Maxi goes on about all his cool post rock/doom/screamo/real emo bands, but never about the fact that he also loves Stereophonics, Idlewild and Pearl Jam because those bands aren't seen as being cool.

Everyone wants to be seen as being cool, no matter what they say. I love Meshuggah, but I also I love the first Linkin Park album. Now who do you think I'm gonna publically revere?

[And yes I'm aware that in the above I have used the word 'cool' in the same way your parents do. At least I didn't say 'hip'....]

[stuartmaxwell]

In much the same way Maxi goes on about all his cool post rock/doom/screamo/real emo bands, but never about the fact that he also loves Stereophonics, Idlewild and Pearl Jam because those bands aren't seen as being cool.

pretty much because those bands release irrelevant music now, each bands early stuff is incredible to me (and even with PJ a lot of their newer stuff is good). i dont see you mentioning mettalica, symposium or ash in every discussion you have about music online, but i bet if you were in a conversation in person these names would come up eventually. which is what happens with me.

like many, I have spent thousands of pounds on settting up gigs, buying records of bands, attending shows all over the Uk and europe for bands i like, respect and care about, which is far more than can be said for a lot of people, if that is what is deemed "cool" then I am guilty as charged.

[SeaOfEnergy]

Like medichi, I disagree with a lot of that. Especially the "music scene in britain barely even recognises it as a viable musical genre" bit. Utter lies. Terrorizor magazine is sold in WHSmith, and Metal Hammer has an extreme metal section every issue. Both popular magzines that are widely available.

OK....I never found any of my favourite bands from magazines, because the magazines like metal hammer etc are actually journalistic wank ,i remember cannibal corpse gettin a 2 star review.... yeah i dont think death is the only genre to be fighting on defiantly regardless of overall commercial success, just think its a good example of a whole world of music with offshoot genres that is barely recognized in media 'that people actually see/read/hear i.e TV , radio , yes there are a few magazines but seeing as their shite i dont think they should count.

yeah and the comment on the cryptopsy/fetus shirt being thought of as cool and maiden not , thats because maiden is the epitomy of cheesy metal and cryptopsy/fetus definately are not!!

[unbroken]

i think cryptopsy are rubbish....

[The Sloth]

OK....I never found any of my favourite bands from magazines, because the magazines like metal hammer etc are actually journalistic wank ,i remember cannibal corpse gettin a 2 star review.... yeah i dont think death is the only genre to be fighting on defiantly regardless of overall commercial success, just think its a good example of a whole world of music with offshoot genres that is barely recognized in media 'that people actually see/read/hear i.e TV , radio , yes there are a few magazines but seeing as their shite i dont think they should count.

yeah and the comment on the cryptopsy/fetus shirt being thought of as cool and maiden not , thats because maiden is the epitomy of cheesy metal and cryptopsy/fetus definately are not!!

Nile were in last months 'Subterania' (extreme metal) section of Metal Hammer...they got 9 outta 10. The 'subterrania' section is normally not too bad. Kerrrrrrrrrang is a waste of time for sure. Terrorizer is pretty cool as well, they usually cover a lot of 'extreme' bands that have no commercial prospects.

[Norseman]

Maiden are cool, the epitomy of an underground (extreme at the time 75-80) metal band that made it and still do loads to help other bands coming through, more power to the Beast!

I am sure I will be classed as peddling to the mighty corporate kings of cheese metal and have sold my soul and can no longer be classed as a "metal" fan but do I give a fuk, hmmmmm, nah.

[Dan G]

i dont see you mentioning mettalica, symposium or ash in every discussion you have about music online, but i bet if you were in a conversation in person these names would come up eventually. which is what happens with me.

.

Yes I know that, and I am in the same boat as you - hence why I made that point about myself regarding LP and Meshuggah so it didn't seem like I was only having a pointless dig.

(Although to be fair I stick up for/reference/publically herald Metallica at every available opportunity. Was never that into Ash though, but quite enjoyed Symposium. I was still more into the heavier stuff back then but couldn't play Pantera and megadeth that well after few months of playing guitar )

OK....I never found any of my favourite bands from magazines, because the magazines like metal hammer etc are actually journalistic wank ,i remember cannibal corpse gettin a 2 star review....

Holy shit! One reviewer didn't like one cannibal corpse record so therefore an entire magazine is shit! That's fucking stupid. I remember 'Kill' by cannibal corpse getting 10/10 in metal hammer so does that not make it an amazing magazine now?

yeah and the comment on the cryptopsy/fetus shirt being thought of as cool and maiden not , thats because maiden is the epitomy of cheesy metal and cryptopsy/fetus definately are not!!

That's one of way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it is that 30 years ago Iron Maiden were making more extreme music than anyone else and along with Black Sabbath and Judas Priest basically invented the whole genre.

I love Cannibal Corpse as much as I do Maiden, but Maiden have a lot of songs based very intellectually on literature, poems and history. Cannibal corpse (along with heaps of other death/gore bands) have playground lyrics about fucking mutilated bodies. So the whole "cheesy" comment doesn't really work if you're trying to use it to make death metal sound credible.

To me, you sound like someone who ONLY listens to Death metal - (I could be wrong) and I find people who are only into one genre to have a very biased and narrow minded view on other genres.

i think cryptopsy are rubbish....

Despised Icon, Beneath The Massacre, ion Dissonance etc would never have existed without cryptopsy. Not that that is a reason to have to Cryptopsy, of course... but like all pioneering bands (e.g. Maiden, Black Flag, Sex Pistols, Beatles, Metallica, Celtic Frost) people will have strong opinions on them.

I hate Neil Young and Bob Dylan, but love Tom Petty. Horses for courses, music is subjective etc etc.

[SeaOfEnergy]

I like lots of music other than death, death metal is probably my favourite genre, but basically any music which is intelligent enough that it takes a few listens to understand/decipher whats really going is good in my book. It helps if its madly psychedelic or brutal!

Death lyrics are probably the weakest part of the genre, seeing as i doubt even the bands who write the lyrics actually take them seriously, their more in the music to fit in with the theme, which is also the reason for the growling vocals etc It would sound pretty dumb with people singing brutal lyrics like choir singers. Also if people could actually hear what most of these bands sing about, there would be a lot more media frenzy about the negative impact of the music on poor young impressionable minds. Death just appeals to me so much because of the massive amount of variation and subtle nuances in the genre as a whole, even though they generally rely on the exact same tools, i.e distorted guitar, distorted vocals,blast beat drumming, there still manages to be thousands of bands each bringing their own death 'sound' to the table. I know you can never make people understand WHY you like something, its subjective.

Ive never really been into buying magazines since the net pretty much removes the need for them, i can find out about bands i might like, go and listen to them and decide for myself rather than reading some journalists opinion of a band, and buying it off the back of a review and being dissappointed.

[unbroken]

Despised Icon, Beneath The Massacre, ion Dissonance etc would never have existed without cryptopsy. Not that that is a reason to have to Cryptopsy, of course... but like all pioneering bands (e.g. Maiden, Black Flag, Sex Pistols, Beatles, Metallica, Celtic Frost) people will have strong opinions on them.

I hate Neil Young and Bob Dylan, but love Tom Petty. Horses for courses, music is subjective etc etc.

Yeah, you are right, but at the end of the day, that still means nothing, I don't think anything of the beatles or the rolling stones or any of that shite. And they were the ones to begin "everything" right?

shite, the music we have today would have probably happened anyways.

[Jimmy Lucifer]

Yeah, you are right, but at the end of the day, that still means nothing, I don't think anything of the beatles or the rolling stones or any of that shite. And they were the ones to begin "everything" right?

shite, the music we have today would have probably happened anyways.

No it wouldn't. That's like saying ..."even if Archduke Franz Ferdinand never got shot, the first World War would've happened anyway." It probably would've occurred at some point, just not when it did (give it fifteen - twenty years or so later, knowing what we know now). It's also like saying "even if Black Sabbath never existed, Kyuss would've still been around."

Or is that a completely redundant post?

[The Sloth]

if things didnt happen the way they did music would definately be different....I love the beatles, the \Rolling stones have ace songs...I like a lot of music that is not rock oreantated but if the bands i WAS influenced by didnt listen to the beatles then they would sound completely difffferent and im sure that would be the same world wide....it is that way because it is.

[Old Gold]

No it wouldn't. That's like saying ..."even if Archduke Franz Ferdinand never got shot, the first World War would've happened anyway." It probably would've occurred at some point, just not when it did (give it fifteen - twenty years or so later, knowing what we know now). It's also like saying "even if Black Sabbath never existed, Kyuss would've still been around."

Or is that a completely redundant post?

You just sort of... agreed with him really.