First Multitrack/Where to start with equipment?

[Guest DustyDeviada]

My acoustic recordings have all been done on my laptop.

Is this supposed to convince him to go for a laptop?

[Hog]

Is this supposed to convince him to go for a laptop?

Shut it Knopfler boy

[dorkusmalorkus]

i'll sell this for 40. well easy to use and perfect for recording ideas and wee demos. all in box with instructions etc. and it looks like its a prop from Back to the Future 8-)

Reidys.com - Korg CR4

[TR!ΔNGL€ T€€TH]

I think I'm actually with stripey on this one (somebody call a doctor?).

I too agree with the Stripester, and it seems to be happening more and more often. ?(

[Guest DustyDeviada]

I too agree with the Stripester, and it seems to be happening more and more often. ?(

It just comes with old age I'm afraid. You'll be agreeing with the Daily Mail next.

[HairyScaryMark]

True....I like sliding real faders and twiddling real knobs (woah, Dusty!!!)

That's why you should eventually save up for a control surface. Even one with only 8 faders can often do 64 channels.

I just use mouse at the moment but have a wirless control surface for stopping and starting recordings which is useful if you are recording from across the room and/or have nobody to operate computer.

[Guest Tam o' Shantie]

my 2 cents: assuming the person doesn't have a decent laptop (or even a decent PC) which by the way not everybody has, spending a hundred quid in total on a 424mkII, a lead/stand and an SM57 will give him a totally portable set up that will sound great (perhaps even benefit the sound if he wants something punk/lofi sounding), give him an opportunity to learn the basics, and provide a something 'hands on' and ideally suited to ideas that can't wait until he has access to a computer, even in future if he upgrades to a more slick set up. A mic in on a computer is always gonna sound shit, and I would be surprised if you could get an adequate sounding sound card for the price of a 424.

[emergency72]

That's why you should eventually save up for a control surface. Even one with only 8 faders can often do 64 channels.

I just use mouse at the moment but have a wirless control surface for stopping and starting recordings which is useful if you are recording from across the room and/or have nobody to operate computer.

Is that the tranzport thing? I like the sound of them, means I can keep the aircraft (aka the pc) out of the room.

With regards to analogue 4 tracks vs. digital/computer etc... I have 4 track tapes that are almost 10 years old that, give me almost any 4 track and I can play them back. I can't say the same for my digital 8 tracks...all that stuff has been lost to dying technology...and stuff I did on my PC when i first started using my PC has long been lost since hard drives pack in. food for thought. It's also a lot easier to chuck a four track in your rucksack and set it up at Toms or wherever.

[HairyScaryMark]

Is that the tranzport thing? I like the sound of them, means I can keep the aircraft (aka the pc) out of the room.

Yes it is. Very simple to set up and use as well.

This is it here

Rather nice piece of kit.

.....

Something nobody seems to have talked about yet is. Not everyone needs a recording setup. I barely even use mine currently. Done far more recording of other people than myself.

Seems silly to spend money on something which might only get you mediocre results vs save money and go to a decent studio.

If you want to get your tapes onto digital format, you will still need to use a computer at some point (unless you own an external CD burner).

p.s nothing mediocre about my studio however

[scottyboy]

OK, so generally people are leaning towards computer, though i think i'd feel more comfortable playing with tangible knobs so i'll think about that for a bit.

Regarding microphones, someone mentioned the Shure SM57. Any additional thoughts on this?

Thanks again for replies.

loads of people use these for home recording. they're cheap (about 40 2nd hand, maybe 70 new), versatile and sound really good for the price.

i also read that the sennheiser 421 is really good. its like 3 times the price though (still good value... fairly cheap for a mic i think)

edit: for staring out you could get some behringer mics or something. probably pretty terrible though

[Old Gold]

You're going to have to buy a microphone and a stand whichever medium you opt for, so you might as well give the free computer software a whirl first anyway.

If you're going to be working with samples and things however, the portability of a traditional multitrack could be pretty useful.

[Guest batterypowpow]

After a bit of thought, i've gathered some feelings to narrow down/re-write my original post and explain myself a little further.

My 2 (just to simplify things) attractions in music are grime, dubstep, techno, electronic etc (put in the computer/software category) and lo-fi, no wave, noise, punk... Kukl, Sonic Youth's "Confusion is Sex", Cat Power's first couple of albums, a couple of Einsturzende Neubauten tracks i've heard (i would put in multitrack hardware category probably just because of the lower quality). For several reasons, for now, i'm drawn to the latter (though i will still be playing with some of the software that's been recommended).

Generally, any sound experimentation is what i go for. Recording my washing machine when it bangs around, singing and growling over that, scraping a plectrum down a guitar string over that, just playing around with stuff. Recording stones being thrown into water.

I know i'll be instantly in love with whatever i get first but don't want to spend too much money on my first thing - i know it'll prob be a cassette multitrack rather than a digital one because of price - but these are just a beginning for me (hence, not wanting to throw too much money at it). I guess urgency is a bit key here. I feel i've wasted a lot of time i could've spent doing this but instead wandered around a little lost in life. So...

I'm intrigued by the 424 MkII and the MkIII. If you've personal experience of either of these please give me your comments on them, or recommend something else if you can, cassette or digital. How much hiss do they produce? What effects do they have?

Cheers.

[soundian]

Generally, any sound experimentation is what i go for. Recording my washing machine when it bangs around, singing and growling over that, scraping a plectrum down a guitar string over that, just playing around with stuff. Recording stones being thrown into water.

.

You definitely need something portable then, but the free software you've been pointed to will allow you to take the stuff you record into the computer and fuck about with it in ways that are just not possible with a cheap multitrack.

[Guest batterypowpow]

You definitely need something portable then, but the free software you've been pointed to will allow you to take the stuff you record into the computer and fuck about with it in ways that are just not possible with a cheap multitrack.

Yeh, i was quite turned on by what Delboy had said and your response to that. So a compromise.

[Stripey]

My 2 (just to simplify things) attractions in music are grime, dubstep, techno, electronic etc (put in the computer/software category) and lo-fi, no wave, noise, punk

You're not gonna produce any kind of electronic music using a multitracker, unless you invest in a hardware sampler, hardware synths, hardware filters, hardware effects, midi controller etc, in short a lot of expensive outboard gear which just becomes absurd if it's all plugged into a 4track tape machine. Obviously, the editing features on these multitrackers are completely useless for that kind of thing.

The computer solution will let you achieve professional results for a minimal outlay, 100 quid will get you an audio interface and a bundled copy of something like cubase or ableton which is going to be infinitely more useful and a hell of a lot more fun to experiment with.

Portability is over-rated, i use a DV camcorder and a cheap stereo condenser mic for sampling sounds away from my desk - doing that kind of sampling is initially attractive but a lot less useful than you might imagine, despite being a noble idea...

From my point of view, you can budget around 100-150 quid for a decent, versatile studio mic with accessories, and then choose to either buy a clunky old multitrack which you will find totally limiting; or a shiny new 24bit audio interface with software which gives you everything you need to get as experimental as you like and produce commercial quality recordings.

[Guest batterypowpow]

You're not gonna produce any kind of electronic music using a multitracker, unless you invest in a hardware sampler, hardware synths, hardware filters, hardware effects, midi controller etc, in short a lot of expensive outboard gear which just becomes absurd if it's all plugged into a 4track tape machine. Obviously, the editing features on these multitrackers are completely useless for that kind of thing.

The electronic music is part of the first of the attractions i mentioned which i'm leaving alone for now, so going for the second attraction with the multitrack (and the software after).

[Stupot]

You're not gonna produce any kind of electronic music using a multitracker, unless you invest in a hardware sampler, hardware synths, hardware filters, hardware effects, midi controller etc, in short a lot of expensive outboard gear which just becomes absurd if it's all plugged into a 4track tape machine. Obviously, the editing features on these multitrackers are completely useless for that kind of thing.

The computer solution will let you achieve professional results for a minimal outlay, 100 quid will get you an audio interface and a bundled copy of something like cubase or ableton which is going to be infinitely more useful and a hell of a lot more fun to experiment with.

Portability is over-rated, i use a DV camcorder and a cheap stereo condenser mic for sampling sounds away from my desk - doing that kind of sampling is initially attractive but a lot less useful than you might imagine, despite being a noble idea...

From my point of view, you can budget around 100-150 quid for a decent, versatile studio mic with accessories, and then choose to either buy a clunky old multitrack which you will find totally limiting; or a shiny new 24bit audio interface with software which gives you everything you need to get as experimental as you like and produce commercial quality recordings.

It's possible for someone with a bit of experience to create good or even high quality recordings like that, but to make commercial quality requires high end mastering which really means high end outboards but on computers means waves suites which means big money and no, Ozone doesn't quite cut it, although it's good for the price.

But if he's into lo fi then you're spot on.

[Alan Cynic]

I'm intrigued by the 424 MkII and the MkIII. If you've personal experience of either of these please give me your comments on them, or recommend something else if you can, cassette or digital. How much hiss do they produce? What effects do they have?

Cheers.

I've used Tascams in the past....if you use good quality cassettes the hiss isn't bad. They allow you to 'bounce' easily enough, so you can get 7 things recorded without too horrible a build up of hiss (and if you add an instrument as you bounce that becomes 10).

As I said earlier, I'd happily go back to them. My results were never 'top end', or studio quality etc but they got issued on vinyl and CDs by European labels, so 'lo-fi' holds no worry for me. Mind you, nobody bought them, so they weren't 'commercial'

[Guest DustyDeviada]

To be fair though Alan, your digital recordings sound pretty "lo-fi" and amateurish as well, but I know it takes a lot of work to sound that crappy.

[Alan Cynic]

I'm (sadly) proud of my lack of gloss Dusty:up: