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Master Foods Inc (Mars, Bounty etc) now using rennet.


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The farming of cattle to keep them producing milk can be likened to rape. (Agree or disagree with this statement, dairy farming on a mass scale is quite evil)

My cousins own and work a dairy farm and I can say with absolute certainty there is nothing inhumane or ''evil'' about it.

I take it you've seen some youtube thing (American, no doubt)?

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Veggies drink milk.

The fact that you dont understand why a vegan has trouble drinking milk shows you dont understand what a vegan is...

:popcorn:

1st point: No not all Vegetarians do drink milk (i'm willing to bet 100% that the lactose intolerent ones don't)

2nd point: I do know what the difference is. I was generalizing them into one category for the sake of my arguement.

3rd point: You sir, are an ass.

:popcorn:

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Guest bluesxman
Don't cows need to get milked though, as they can get unwell if they are not milked for long periods of time?

It's probably similar to when a bloke hasn't emptied his glands in a while, it gets a bit clogged up in there. :up:

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I saw a show on the discovery channel (an episode of How It's Made) where they went behind the scenes at a high tech cow milking facility.

Long story short, at that facility peple don't milk the cows, the cows choose when they want to be milked by going to a machine which milks them (without any human contact). Cows do get uncomfortable if they aren't milked.

Edit:

I believe this is the episode:

However I dont have a good enough connection to watch it and check.

Edit 2:

It's the american version with a reaaaallly annoying narrator. Sorry, but the british one doesn't seem to be on there. You'll just have to put up with the annoyingness.

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That job is supposed to be taken care of by their babies....who are culled away to be vealed and marsified!

I was just making the point that cows need to be milked. Its up to each person to decide what that means ethically. Personally I dont care. I eat meat and don't see any ethical problem with that.

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1st point: No not all Vegetarians do drink milk (i'm willing to bet 100% that the lactose intolerent ones don't)

2nd point: I do know what the difference is. I was generalizing them into one category for the sake of my arguement.

3rd point: You sir, are an ass.

:popcorn:

Ok, dont quite know how that really retaliates to what i said.

i never said ALL veggies drink milk did i?

Why would you gereralize two different views/choices into one? They differ greatly.

Im the ass?

you asked why a vegan would have a problem with drinking milk.

do you not understand what ''animal produce'' is?

and how being vegan is not consuming any animal produce.

and therefor would CLEARLY have a problem drinking milk.

Why ask a question if you claim to already know the answer.

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Ok, dont quite know how that really retaliates to what i said.

i never said ALL veggies drink milk did i?

Why would you gereralize two different views/choices into one? They differ greatly.

Im the ass?

you asked why a vegan would have a problem with drinking milk.

do you not understand what ''animal produce'' is?

and how being vegan is not consuming any animal produce.

and therefor would CLEARLY have a problem drinking milk.

Why ask a question if you claim to already know the answer.

It was rhetorical you idiot!!

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you asked why a vegan would have a problem with drinking milk.

do you not understand what ''animal produce'' is?

and how being vegan is not consuming any animal produce.

and therefor would CLEARLY have a problem drinking milk.

Why ask a question if you claim to already know the answer.

We all know Vegans dont consume animal produce. I think he meant he was having trouble seeing what is so inhumane and cruel about yoinking some milk from a cow...

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One concern I've heard already is that vegetarian type-1 diabetics might have a bit of a problem - what with fun-size Mars Bars being a favourite to regulate insulin doses/ward-off hypos etc. Fruit sugar altenatives are slower acting & altogether less effective in these circumstances.

very simple answer: lucozade

it works quicker than any crappy mars bar, largely due to the fat content in a mars bar slowing the glucose delivery, and is better for you, largely due to the absence of sat fat content.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Very interesting read

The great organic rip-off

By Naomi Caine

May 29 2007

Youre not a proper green consumer these days unless you have a box of organic vegetables delivered to your door each week. Companies such as Abel & Cole and Everybody Organic are doing big business. The high-street supermarkets are also jumping onto the green bandwagon. Tesco' date=' Sainsburys and Marks & Spencer all now offer organic vegetable boxes because they too want a bite of the growing sector.

And no wonder. Analysts predict that the organic market, which has soared by 30% in the last 12 months to 1.6 billion, will be worth 2.7 billion by 2010. But are we spending all that money wisely? Organic produce is 63% more expensive than your average food, according to Morgan Stanley, the investment bank. Dr Anna Ross, an economist at the University of the West of England, reckons that organic carrots carry a premium of up to 285%. So you have to wonder whether its really worth it.

How green is organic?

Organic food bills itself as better for the consumer, the animals and the environment because it must comply with strict standards, as laid down by European law. An organic farm must, for example, limit the use of pesticides and drugs that are routine on many conventional farms. Genetically modified crops are also banned from organic farms. Organic farmers dont just care about the land; they also pay heed to animal welfare. The animals on an organic farm should have access to open spaces and be fed largely organic feed.

But its not all green and pleasant in the organic land. Organic farming is not totally free from chemicals. Farmers are permitted to use up to seven pesticides and more than 30 additives.

Is it really organic anyway?

And how do we know the food is organic? A farm must be certified to carry the organic tag, but there are reports that consumers have been duped. After all, its not always easy to distinguish an organic carrot or lamb chop from the ordinary version. The growing demand for organic food is also putting pressure on suppliers, which leads some people to suspect that standards are slipping.

Take salmon, which can be certified as organic even if it is farmed. Okay, an organic salmon farmer doesnt pump his water or his fish with chemicals and drugs. Plus, the feed is closer to the natural diet of wild salmon. But the fish are still kept in cages and their waste is not recycled. In America, no salmon even if it has been caught in the wilds of Alaska - has organic classification.

There are similar concerns about organic poultry farms. An organic flock can number as many as 9,000 birds, although the Soil Association wants chicken farmers to limit the number of birds in their sheds to 500. Beak trimming, to prevent birds pecking each other, is also permitted, although not without good cause.

Birds that are destined to produce organic eggs can spend up to 18 weeks being fed non-organic food in the same indoor conditions as other hens, according to some reports. The farmer simply has to transfer the hens to better conditions for eight weeks for the eggs to be classified as organic. He can then charge up to three times the price.

Is organic food better for us?

But surely organic food is better for humans, if not for animals? The health benefits are in fact hotly debated. Scientists in Britain, France and Poland recently examined organic carrots, apples, peaches and potatoes and discovered they had greater concentrations of vitamin C and chemicals that protect against heart attacks and cancer than non-organic produce.

The reason why its such a grey area is because its extremely difficult to measure the health benefit in any food, but we can say that if you eat 400g of fruit and vegetables per day you would get 20% more nutrients in organic food, said Dr Kirsten Brandt of Newcastle University, which led the research. The study follows US research suggesting organic kiwi fruit had higher levels of nutrients than conventional crops.

Organic milk, too, has been shown to contain 68% more heart-friendly omega3 fatty acids than ordinary milk by scientists at the University of Liverpool. Peter Melchett, policy director of the Soil Association (SA), which certifies 70% of all organic produce sold in the UK, says: There is clear evidence that a range of organic foods contain more beneficial nutrients and vitamins and less of things known to have a detrimental health effect.

But hang on a minute. Tests on supermarket chicken breasts at Strathclyde University last year revealed that organic poultry was less nutritious, with lower levels of omega3 fatty acids. There have also been reports about the high levels of fat and salt in some organic foods.

Organic food grown locally might even cause more harm to the environment than ordinary produce from the supermarket. A study recently commissioned by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs could not reach a clear conclusion about the environmental impact of organic and non-organic food.

Professor Ken Green, who led the study, said: If you are concerned about the carbon footprint of foods, there can be a good case for importing some of them even if they can be grown in the UK. The evidence available so far shows that local is not always the best option for the environment.

Healthy profits for organic retailers

The lack of conclusive scientific evidence about the benefits of organic food has led some sceptics to denounce it as a lifestyle choice. But the debate hasnt halted the retail revolution. The American green supermarket chain, Whole Foods Market, will open its European flagship store in Kensington, west London, at the beginning of June.

Whole Foods claims its shopping experience will be like no other and promises quality produce. But it comes at a price - not for nothing has the store earned the nickname in the US of Whole Paycheck.

Not convinced

I wont be visiting the store, but I have tried out a box scheme. The organic veggies were delivered to my door and were satisfyingly muddy. But they didnt taste noticeably different and it cost 14.80 for a mixed box of six types of vegetables and three types of fruit. Plus, I threw away about half the contents. I think for the moment Ill stick with supermarket, even if I do scour the organic shelves first. [/quote']

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