Master Foods Inc (Mars, Bounty etc) now using rennet.

[Lexicon Devil]

You are right but:

Soymilk isn't naturally enriched with Calcium it has to be added to it afterwards due to the fact that the Calcium content in Soy beans is contained in the beans pulp. So it's void in my opinion, you might as well drink a glass of water with a spoonful of calcium carbonate in it.

Ditto on the Tofu front i'm afraid. It depends what coagulants are used in its manufacture as to whether it is Calcium enriched or not.

I'm always sceptical on the point of things that are supposed to imply a 'natural' source of something when that something has to be added to it outwith nature.

You are right with the 'leafy greens' bit though, i hadn't thought there'd be as much Calcium in things like Broccoli and certain other beans etc. Though what ratio of greens:milk you'd have to consume in order to balance it out would be something worth finding out.

You are of course right and I am aware that the calcium levels in some products aren't natural per se but the point remains that calcium in a vegan diet is entirely possible through their use/without dairy produce. I lent out all of my nutrition books and can't actually check how much greenery you need to consume to get high levels of calcium but if my memory serves me correctly it's not as unreasonable as you might assume.

[NickE]

apparently, coke, fanta, sprite, or whatever that comes from a 'tap' as in, from a bar. isn't vegitarian friendly...due to something they put in to preserve it. just thought i'd add that.

[nullmouse]

I lent out all of my nutrition books and can't actually check how much greenery you need to consume to get high levels of calcium but if my memory serves me correctly it's not as unreasonable as you might assume.

Based on an RDA of 1000mg/day and the USDA Nutrient Database, 2kg of broccoli florets a day should do it. Alternatively, why not try 5.5kg of iceberg lettuce a day.

Mustard spinach, however, is rich in calcium - You'd only have to eat 0.5kg of that a day.

[Alkaline]

Based on an RDA of 1000mg/day and the USDA Nutrient Database, 2kg of broccoli florets a day should do it. Alternatively, why not try 5.5kg of iceberg lettuce a day.

Mustard spinach, however, is rich in calcium - You'd only have to eat 0.5kg of that a day.

Isn't 5.5kg of lettuce a bit OTT, you'd be fed up of the stuff after 2 days, ditto with broccoli. Whereas a nice glass worth of milk over some cerea (muesli for those of us who like to keep healthy/regular)l, milk in coffee/tea etc and maybe a small helping of cheese a day would be more than enough and not be as much of a chore to eat. Let's face it, milk/cheese and the many things that you can do with both have a much greater mass appeal than a shitty bit of broccoli (which only really tastes great when you grate some cheese over the top of it and grill it).

I'm unsure as to why vegetarians/vegans would have a problem with Milk anyway. It seems a fairly pointless endeavor.

[Chris]

I'm unsure as to why vegetarians/vegans would have a problem with Milk anyway. It seems a fairly pointless endeavor.

Maybe they're lactose intolerant.

[Alkaline]

Maybe they're lactose intolerant.

All of them?? That's fucking sissy talk anyway

[Teabags]

I eat veggie cheese.

I barely have milk, apart from occasionally in coffee, which I don't drink too much of anyway.

I drank even less milk when I wasn't vegetarian. I feel fine.

[Alkaline]

I eat veggie cheese.

I barely have milk, apart from occasionally in coffee, which I don't drink too much of anyway.

I drank even less milk when I wasn't vegetarian. I feel fine.

Yeah, i can understand the whole cheese thing i suppose due to its production constituents and veggie cheese is actually quite nice. But a diet sans milk gets a big thumbs down from me. I don't actually like the taste of it on its own, i couldn't drink a glass of milk, but i like it in coffee or over muesli.

[Lexicon Devil]

I haven't drank milk for nigh on 10 months now I think and I don't see any difference at all. I do eat a fair bit of veg cheese and sometimes yoghurt though so it follows that I wouldn't notice change.

[Alkaline]

I haven't drank milk for nigh on 10 months now I think and I don't see any difference at all. I do eat a fair bit of veg cheese and sometimes yoghurt though so it follows that I wouldn't notice change.

I've know several vegans over the years who've suffered bone disorders as a result (confirmed by their doctors) of their diets. Irresponsible Vegans, maybe.

[Teabags]

I think if you just go vegan and don't think about it properly, you're gonna end up in trouble. That doesn't mean its impossible, or even hard, you just need to know about food a bit more.

[Lexicon Devil]

100% agreed. I read heaps about plant based nutrition and know for a fact veg/vegan diets are entirely feasible. I admit there are plenty of really badly nourished veg/vegans but that doesn't mean it's not possible. Plenty of really unhealthy omnivores too, it's just about eating properly regardless of your dietary choices.

[nullmouse]

A recent review of the literature seems to show that vegans do have a lower bone mineral density than non-vegans, but the effect of this on bone fracture is inconclusive (AM Smith, Int J Nurs Pract. 2006 Oct;12(5):302-6.)

However, carefully controlled lacto-vegetarian and vegan diets can maintain calcium balance and keep bone turnover within the normal parameters. (K Kohlenberg-Mueller, L Raschka. J Bone Miner Metab. 2003;21(1):28-33.)

This would seem to suggest that a well-balanced and selected vegan diet can (at least in the short-term) maintain bone mineral density, however the review suggests that either (a) most vegans do not keep a well-balanced diet or (b) a well-balanced diet does not maintain bone mineral density in the long term. Either way, the suggestion most vegans are falling down and snapping in half is inconclusive.

Calcium-balance is critical in rapidly growing children and teenagers, so I would be concerned about ill-informed or poorly-planned veganism in teenagers affecting bone development. Similarily, bone mass and calcium balance is critical in post-menopausal women - So I'd also be worried about vegetarian and vegan diets in the elderly.

To be honest, for the target age of this website I'd be more concerned with Vitamin D levels up here in Aberdeen. No point in worrying about RDA's if your body can't cope with taking up and processing all that calcium.

[nullmouse]

I think if you just go vegan and don't think about it properly, you're gonna end up in trouble. That doesn't mean its impossible, or even hard, you just need to know about food a bit more.

I agree with this too, it holds true for any diet you choose to maintain. Would be interesting to hear how many omnivores reach their 5-a-day target on fruit and veg, for example.

[Chris]

Would be interesting to hear how many omnivores reach their 5-a-day target on fruit and veg, for example.

I know I only manage 3 or 4 (starchy veg like potatoes don't count apparently) although one of those is the veg I have with my dinner, which I usually pile high on the plate.

It's the same for all those recommendations. How many people drink 8 glasses of water a day (ok, I manage this one)? Or eat 2 portions of oily fish a week?

I doubt many people eat and drink according to all the recommendations, but as long as you get close and hit a couple of them you'll probably be alright.

[Stripey]

Irresponsible Vegans, maybe.

BBC NEWS | World | Americas | Vegans jailed over death of baby

"The baby died six weeks after birth after being fed a diet largely made up of soy milk and organic apple juice."

[Alkaline]

Would be interesting to hear how many omnivores reach their 5-a-day target on fruit and veg, for example.

The only reason vegetarians manage that is because they don't eat anything else really so thats a bit of a non-starter in my opinion.

I prefer a varied diet as opposed to a specific diet. I'm one of the healthiest people you'll meet (not in a physical fitness way, though i'm not unfit, more in a general well-being way). I'm very rarely sick and if i am what normally lays other people down for a few days barely affects me over one.

I eat things because i like them, food is an enjoyable aspect of life for me and flavour and taste is very important to me as well. I've tried various diets over the years including vegetarianism and fad diets like Atkins etc and i can honestly say i always feel better when i eat the things i would normally eat.

It is very much a horses for courses scenario, but some people are fucking ridiculous about watching what they eat.

[nullmouse]

I know I only manage 3 or 4 (starchy veg like potatoes don't count apparently) although one of those is the veg I have with my dinner, which I usually pile high on the plate.

It's the same for all those recommendations. How many people drink 8 glasses of water a day (ok, I manage this one)? Or eat 2 portions of oily fish a week?

I doubt many people eat and drink according to all the recommendations, but as long as you get close and hit a couple of them you'll probably be alright.

Part of the problem with all these recommendations is that half of them seem to come from nowhere - The 8 glasses of water a day is a classic one which to most people makes sense, especially considering the collective myths and half-truths surrounding sugary drinks and hot beverages. The truth of the matter is there's no basis for that recommendation - Urban Legends Reference Pages: Eight Glasses

[nullmouse]

The only reason vegetarians manage that is because they don't eat anything else really so thats a bit of a non-starter in my opinion.

I think it's a fair point - A lot of people are up in arms about vegetarians and vegans missing out on essential meat and animal byproducts, but most omnivores hardly maintain a healthy diet themselves due to not getting enough of what vegans and vegetarians do.

[kirkt]

Who eats that shit anyway apart from kids and fat people? I would have thought any "decent vegetarian" as you put it would be enlightened enough about their diet not to eat such filth in the first place.

I'm a vegetarian, but not for health reasons and I do eat that junk. And I'm no where near fat either and I know other vegetarians with similar poor diets...

[AttackTimCozine]

I'm unsure as to why vegetarians/vegans would have a problem with Milk anyway. It seems a fairly pointless endeavor.

The farming of cattle to keep them producing milk can be likened to rape. (Agree or disagree with this statement, dairy farming on a mass scale is quite evil)

[Stripey]

The farming of cattle to keep them producing milk can be likened to rape.

Hahahahah oh PLEASE. Is it rape when I pick chillies from my plants which only exist because I planted the seeds and nurtured them to fruition?

[Old Gold]

I agree. As much as I dislike battery farming, saying it's 'likened to rape' is 100% Peta shock tactic bullshit.

[Camie]

The farming of cattle to keep them producing milk can be likened to rape. (Agree or disagree with this statement, dairy farming on a mass scale is quite evil)

Don't cows need to get milked though, as they can get unwell if they are not milked for long periods of time?

[Stripey]

Animal husbandry has been around for a long time, it's a symbiotic relationship and there is absolutely nothing un-natural about it. I don't approve of intensive farming which is detrimental to the animals quality of life, obviously.