What this scene needs

[Alan Cynic]

Lach has changed agent and finished the new album yesterday

Changing agent was a good move...the last one had him supporting Roland Gift on tour!!

(Mind you I videoed the Music hall one for Lach, and his treatment of the hecklers was fab:laughing: )

Back to the discussion...I just started playing live 4 years ago, and received loads of encouragement from many local bands/solo artists...from different genres, and from promoters. There are heaps of good people out there....even Maxi heckled in an encouraging fashion!

[rune]

See, this is exactly what's wrong. What's wrong with helping someone out randomly? What's wrong with a random act of kindness towards another band? What's wrong with generally doing a bit to improve things for everyone? Hell, why should "like" or "dislike" even come into it? I'd help out someone I disliked if they needed help and I could help them - to not consider helping them would be sheer selfishness.

Let's be honest, the vast majority of people making music aren't making it for themselves. There may be exceptions here and there, but it's essentially a vanity project in a lot of cases - as is most art.

Stripey - you're not relying on anyone though, are you? It's one thing to do your own thing when you rely on absolutely no-one, but another thing to rely on others while only being out for yourself.

As for what industry? Your record shops, your music venues, your equipment shops, it's all part of the same industry. To not support it is asking for it to die, ultimately.

Exactly, the aberdeen scene seems like another example of human greed. Yet another reason why this planet doesn't look after itself the way it should. All these number one fuckers dont realise that working together makes things better. What ever happened to team work and understanding?

[Flash@TMB]

Why does it need direction? Cause at the minute, it represents one big mess, all these people, who have barely achieved fuck all in the grand scheme of things, only doing what's best for them. Of course, some people are very content with doing fuck all..which is fair enough. I dare say though, that there's a lot of people claiming to be happy with their lot when they blatantly aren't. As I said, it's no coincidence that the people with the most amount of security in themselves are the ones that are keen to do something for everyone.

I can think of two fairly prominent people on here who have made repeated noises about everyone working together in some form or another. Yet it's been consistently ignored by people for whatever reason. Why? Because people are more interested in their own little part of the 'industry'. They don't give a flying fuck about what goes on elsewhere, even if ten minutes of their time could help everyone.

The selfishness will kill off a great part of the music 'scene' here. Things aren't strong enough in Aberdeen for everyone to have their own agenda, especially as there's hardly big bucks supporting things.

As for direction, they should be directing themselves. It's not that bloody hard to cooperate for mutual benefit, is it? Yet there's very little evidence of it, sadly.

This time I must say I agree with you. It would be great if there was more co-operation and collusion.

[Jim Stax]

So, what do we need?

What difference could be made through any changes or developments?

How do we benefit the music community?

Things are changing, slightly, at a national level, should we be responsive or pre-emptive to this locally?

I'm asking as a means of underpinning something that is fairly vibrant but may benefit from a more defined infrastructure. It is recognised across the board in the cultural sector that there is no percieved 'infrastructure' and this impacts on the networking and development of said sector. However, in my experience in dealing with various cultural facilitators the music end of things ain't too shabby, by any standard.

The times acoming to sit round a table I feel...

[Stripey]

I think that people are misinterpreting Cloud's intentions.

Personally, I think what Cloud means by random acts of kindness is being approachable and friendly to your fellow musicans. This includes being happy to give/offer advice when it is asked for. It is not arrogance that spurs people into being kind, but trying to build a sense of community. The chain is only as strong as it's weakest link and all that.

Is it just me or are some people on here bit narcissistic? Just because you aren't willing to help people as you perceive music as a competition doesn't mean that others aren't happy to help without having some sort of alterior motive. No, it's not naiveity, I call it professionalism.

As an artist, what's narcissistic about making your own projects your primary concern? That's what art *is*. I think a lot of people in bands here don't perceive themselves as artists anyway, but rather as performers.

Building a sense of community? Honestly, some of you people sound like you've been watching too much byker grove or something. It's the real world, not a youth club or a community project. Go and work for the Foyer if you're such a bleeding heart. Nobody I know of perceives music as a competition, but nobody deserves automatically to be given the benefit of someone elses hard earned knowledge just because they happen to live in the same area.

[Flash@TMB]

You should be

I do recall a time many many many moons ago when it was a bit shit... Can't put any dates to it but it may have had something to do with dance music being the new black at the time. That said the clubs, pelican and the like, were rammed with fab dj's and huggy people...

UGH! Sound's like 1991 to me.

I'll make a stab at the some dates... here goes...

The Slide

-----------

The first bad thing I can remember was when the Blue Lamp shut it's upstairs discos. But the real decline started when The Venue shut (think that was 1989). Then Caesers Palace shut (think that was 1992). At that point alt.rock was consigned to Monday and Thursday nights at The Palace. Then The Satelite Bar relaunched as Rosies (and became more biker orientated), a couple of years later The Moorings also underwent a bad refurb. The final nail was around June 1996 when the Palace stopped doing the Thursday night and the Sloe Club became a fucking shop

The Recovery

----------------

From then on things started to improve. The Palace started doing alt.rock upstairs on Friday nights. Later on they started playing alt.rock downstairs again on the Friday which was a massive boost. Around this time th original Drakes opened. Then Kef came along at some point. There was also the birth of Fudge and AUBL.

In 2002 things took a big leap forward with he new Drakes opening, Drummonds being bought by Eric, The Moorings taken over by yours truely, and Moshulu starting to do Caged on a Thursday. then in 2003 you had the Moshulu/HJBs management buy out.

Sorry if I screwed up any of that, or missed anything out, but it was my best effort at local history LOL. Please take into account that I was pissed and stoned through most of it. Except when I was tripping on acid...

[TR!ΔNGL€ T€€TH]

Honestly, some of you people sound like you've been watching too much byker grove or something.

Is Byker Grove still on? Last time I saw it PJ and Duncan were in it...

[we make you music]

everyone should listen to this (wo)man

*man/boy

In the words of a not very wise man "I'd love it if this were a dictatorship, as long as I'm the dictator"

Talking about supporting your musical community everyone who loves punk should come down to the 1st ever GFN? club night @ the tunnels on 7th may. My band are playing our first ever gig...special or what?!!

Cheers,

Jamie

[HeinzHines]

Nobody deserves automatically to be given the benefit of someone elses hard earned knowledge just because they happen to live in the same area.

Truth, people working together is a good thing, but X band/artist who works hard for years touring, being skint, learning the trade and building up contacts, shouldn't be made to feel guilty for not instantly helping someone because of geographical closeness.

[FatHand]

I don't have a problem with helping people out in any way I can whether it is a bit of knowledge that I have or playing some music with them. This is always assuming I have enough time and as long as they appreciate it!! I would never turn down someone who asks in the right way for a bit of help. There is a large amount of Karma involved in the way I treat being a musician. As a result of living like this, I find that I can get things organised quickly if and when needed. It doesn't hurt to be nice to people and it passes on the idea to other people.

Back to a point about community that was brought up earlier, I feel that there are many ways to see projects that are aimed at a community. Stripey's view of this as a youth club style idea is a bit condescending; although there is a place for this. Lately I have chosen to define the community that I am involved in as the creative arts community. This is a vast group of people ranging from musicians to street performers, artists to digital designers all with an entire spectrums of ability. Using this definition of community, any project based within it has the potential to have great depth. Creating and encouraging a coherent and organised community of artist that can work with one another and draw upon one another's talents is what makes a scene exciting and vibrant.

I don't understand the disdain that exists from certain people for the cementing this type of environment in the physical world when they happily take part in them over the internet. Collaboration between digital musician is a new and exiting scene, excellent; but for many people it is important for them meet and play together. I, for one, increase my knowledge and understanding of music this way. I am hoping to increase my knowledge and understanding of other art forms in the same way, by getting involved with them and involving them in what I do.

I think that this is an interesting way forward. Although this is complex and vast, I am leading by example. I'm not just talking about doing this. I have already started. It is a complete experiment but if it is even half as successful as I hope and imagine it will definitely be the way I treat my art in the future.

Colin

[Dan G]

What ever happened to understanding?

I often think that myself, after reading any single one of your posts.

[Cloud]

So, what do we need?

Well, in my opinion, the only way forward is for the leading lights of Aberdeen to sit down together on a regular basis. I would suggest that once that's achieved, then progress could be made on aquiring funding for someone to work on behalf of music related businesses/things/etc.

I admit, my previous hardline stance towards public funding has started to mellow a bit - now, if it's for the common good and the services provided are free of charge at the point of use, then even I can't see a problem with it.

What difference could be made through any changes or developments?

Depends how comprehensive the developments are. Even if it's simply the formation of a regular (say monthly) talking shop, then it's still a step forward from the current situation. Either way, there's bound to be some sort of difference in attitudes, especially as once people get talking, new opportunities and developments are bound to arise.

How do we benefit the music community?

By agreeing to leave the personal problems at the door. Only then can people really cooperate for the common good - after all, it is in everyone's benefit to cooperate, surely?

Things are changing, slightly, at a national level, should we be responsive or pre-emptive to this locally?

I may be way off with this, but I feel that Aberdeen is possibly already responsive towards any changes. The fact that most of the industry here is independent shines through a lot of the time, especially as changes are usually made swiftly if they need to be made.

I'm asking as a means of underpinning something that is fairly vibrant but may benefit from a more defined infrastructure. It is recognised across the board in the cultural sector that there is no percieved 'infrastructure' and this impacts on the networking and development of said sector. However, in my experience in dealing with various cultural facilitators the music end of things ain't too shabby, by any standard.

The times acoming to sit round a table I feel...

I think there's definitely a will to sit round a table - when you think about it, you only really need to secure the agreement of about 10 or so people in order to establish something credible and worthwhile. Either way, it would be significantly worthwhile if even three venue owners, three outside promoters and three "others" could agree to talk on a regular basis - simply because it provides a base for future development.

[Stripey]

The thing is Cloud, you live in Essex.

[Guest Kilgore Trout]

Recently I've been rather troubled. I've had to watch this whole scene going down the plughole from the outside (I always thought I'd be involved somehow) and it's been a real shame. What happened? There's no camaraderie, no real wars, no interest. There's just no soul left in our little scene at all. The Fudge Awards suck, aberdeen-music is a lifeless bulky mess and RFR are... em, Cloud, are you there? Ah, you've been strung up by your bollock hair. Well good luck with that.

Anyway, it's just not like it was is it? And worse, it's just not as good.

So what to do? What to do? Well I've had a little idea and I just wanted to run it past you guys to see what you think. I was thinking that the problem with these forums is that really, it's very hard to tell who is on the scene and who is not. What bands are there in Aberdeen today? I certainly don't know. I mean, back in my day it was all bands like Nero and Quik and Black Atom. Where are the equivalent bands now?

Exactly.

I know there are a few places where we can find little incomplete lists of Aberdeen bands, but these are few and far between and pretty useless. Sometimes I see a few bands on a list and don't even know if they're local or not and that's pretty silly.

What we need is a big list of all the bands in Aberdeen all in one place. A sort of ultimate band list if you will. We could call it "The Ultimate Aberdeen Band List" or UABL for short. I think it's a cracking idea and can't believe no one's thought of it sooner. In that effort I have already purchased the url. Who wants to help me run the list? Together we will decide who is in a real Aberdeen band and who isn't. (I'm not counting the xcerts)

Shit, this is cool. I've even got a motto already:

One list to rule them all, one list to find them, one list to bring them all and for the whole scene bind them.

Don't tell me you won't get laid working on this. It's a fucking ace idea.

hey bob, mo' fucking wellcome back to the Aberdeen talk about music webspace. glad you're here dude- please continue to post, we need you. we really miss yer contributions to reasoned debate within yer blinkered musical spectrum.

however please dont return with yer pish "punk"/"pop" band, it was gash- yer internet message board output is fuckin' waay more more groovy than the band you were in. please keep hitting the coke hard and showing up all round Aberdeen looking cool and oh so ever chemically bloated, like, as if you were in an mtv2 vid.

dont come back in a band ( either new or re-hashed) , we've moved on- leave the good old days where they belong- in the past where noone gives a fuck about them.

p.s is yer mate Kai out of craigy? i seen him by the spar the other day?

in summary:

keep posting on here: yer the life an soul.

dont play music : it's shit, and makes us all feel sicky wicky.

peace bro'

[Old Gold]

Bloody hell, that looks like the finest way of making boring, sterile music I've ever laid eyes upon!

Just... bloody hell.

[Guest Kilgore Trout]

Yeah, I also hated that place Drake's. Fucking den of depravity should have closed long before it did. As for that baldy git that owned it... As soon as he sensed it wasn't going to make him his Simon Cowel millions he ran for the hills...

I believe he is now walled up in a bedsit making self indulgent/important computer music that will absolutely change the way we all view the world, for the better! Exciting times ahead...

actually dude the other day i got a text from my good friend sheriff Burnell who presents that well known programme on the free view about "real Americans with guns not stopping for other real Americans with guns dressed as law enforcement", sure the guys hair is inexplicable but he had a top tip on the whereabouts of that arch villian "gymmdrrakezz"- this might be horseshit but some say he's bankrolling the shopping channels bid to provide everyone on the planet with a mind my weapon bulletproof hoody.

other news items include:

gymdrakes is-

knitting a large foetus made of collected chewing gum.

biting the heads off cricket bats.

talking Robert Plant out of dueting with Marrilion.

changing lightbulbs on jupiter's third ringy wingy.

trapped in time, a bit like Bruce Cambell.

ringing. tinnitus style.

reading this thread in a wetsuit.

and most convincingly,

raking it in off staccato set royalties.

oh jesus, i'm tired out.

[Guest Bob]

hey bob, mo' fucking wellcome back to the Aberdeen talk about music webspace. glad you're here dude- please continue to post, we need you. we really miss yer contributions to reasoned debate within yer blinkered musical spectrum.

however please dont return with yer pish "punk"/"pop" band, it was gash- yer internet message board output is fuckin' waay more more groovy than the band you were in. please keep hitting the coke hard and showing up all round Aberdeen looking cool and oh so ever chemically bloated, like, as if you were in an mtv2 vid.

Thank you. I appreciate your views - it's always nice to hear from the people that care the least that care the most.

If and when I come back it won't be to show you how it's done, but I do hope you study the freebie with the same enthusiasm as you've studied my social life. If you could learn from my charm and charisma you'd probably be less bitter too.

Pussy has that effect on a man.

P.S. Have we met?

P.P.S. Kai is doing well. We're very happy together.

Point of Origin reunion anyone? Bring On The Sluts. Haha.

[Guest Kilgore Trout]

Thank you. I appreciate your views - it's always nice to hear from the people that care the least that care the most.

If and when I come back it won't be to show you how it's done, but I do hope you study the freebie with the same enthusiasm as you've studied my social life. If you could learn from my charm and charisma you'd probably be less bitter too.

Pussy has that effect on a man.

P.S. Have we met?

P.P.S. Kai is doing well. We're very happy together.

Point of Origin reunion anyone? Bring On The Sluts. Haha.

in summary

peaceout.

etc.

dude. i couldnt give a fuck about ya. yer band were okay tho' u needed a bit of work and needed to calm down the fuck on the "kings of aberdeen 'tude" but ye were listenable. as to kai- he's been in the paper so i'm bound to recognise im in g dawgs. as tae u, that was a guess.......good luck though.....

get it sorted out mr middle class.

seriously dude, well done- if u get the Point back together thats great, they were one of the few bands around here with attitude- so aye good luck.

p.s using "pussy" in a sentence makes ya sound like a virgin.

[Billy Shears]

STOPPPPP STOPPPPP STOPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!! FUCKIN HELL!!!

I have just sat from 1am to 1:35 an read this whole thread. An i have Laughed, Cired, sniggered, Screamed into my brown paper bag, pulled my fuckin hair out, banged my head against the Screen, heard a few valid points and then pulled my hair out again (mostly when i hit the (Pointless) 3 page personal slanging match between Spikey and the guy who took over the moorings (the names are all a blur an im not going back to check, cause i will just get annoyed again if i read some of it over again).

As much as i hate the word too, still....

Lets start with the OXFORD DEFINITION OF "Scene"

scene

• noun 1 the place where a real or fictional incident occurs or occurred. 2 a view or landscape as seen by a spectator. 3 an incident or representation of an incident of a specified nature: scenes of violence. 4 a sequence of continuous action in a play, film, opera, etc. 5 the scenery used in a play or opera. 6 a public display of emotion or anger. 7 a specified area of activity or interest: the literary scene.

Right - I think we are talking about number 7, unless i am proven wrong... (although, going by the last 14 pages, i think some1 will actually try and prove me wrong on even that - just for the Hell of it).

Ok, so "A specified area of activity or interest." which in our case is:

"The Aberdeen Music Scene," - Right?!

Ok, well, to be honest, where does some1 start. There is a million & 1 things going on in my head after reading all that 14 pages an i am just going to start typing so if it this thread is all over the place, then fuck it, i dont care....

Firstly, and most importantly, from what i can see there are a decent amount of gigs/event going on, the main ones being:

• 
  AECC
  The Tunnels
  The Lemon Tree
  Drummonds
  The Moorings
  Kef

With most holding stuff every night and they all have lists for their upcomin events either on Websites and In House and there is even the EE which list up coming gigs/events most days. So i dunno why people moan about that. Information is everywhere!!

Next....

This city does have a moan culture about it. Simple. The people are in general miserable and the comment about outsiders etc is bang on. You can see it in the forums, the streets, the football stands, the paper (i actually loathe the EE). Cause there is fuck all else to do here it seems and it comes out in our music too. We do not produce anything prominent in the music department because we are stuck up in the North East of scotland and we have no other cultures/influences from anywhere around the world in general (apart from Chinese & Indian food - oh but if we are feeling a bit randy and "exciting" we could goto carmines the itallian by the theatre, or round the corner to "That Turkish Place" that every1 goes by but has never actually been in). In general, everybody here is just stuck in their Oil related job doing the same old things, gettin on the damned property ladder and going to the same old places that are going on week to week. There is hardly any motivation from people around here to goto gigs or to find new bands and be excited by them. They wait till they hear it on the radio, which ever "1" it may be, (did you see what i tried to do there, lol) and they buy the album and they wait for an Arena Tour of this band and they go and see them @ the AECC. Because they are plastered all over the media and radio an "are cool". It's the same at T-in-the-Park. they go because they think its the cool thing to do. you see it every year of all the people who think they are into their music, and they think they are cool as fuck and THEY think they are a bit of a scencester (i will get onto that word later, if i remember) cause they are sittin in a tent smoking half a spliff gettin stoned and they are there to see The Killers & The Arctic Monkeys (Both bands i do like btw - but im talking about commercial-ness & just going to see the mentioned bands only) but then when they go back to aberdeen, you will see them goto places like Babalon (sp?) or Tiger Tiger etc. Now im not saying this goes for every1 now out there, before u jump down my throat, but u know what i mean!

At the end of the day, DIFFERENT PEOPLE LIKE DIFFERENT MUSIC and there are different places for each type of music. People find each other and hang out with, in their weekend haunts such as (as a general example):

• 
  Exdous- Emo Kids
  Tunnels - Indie Lot
  Moshulu - Gothic/Alt

It is happening in its own community. As far as i am aware, "the best" bands from Aberdeen (off the top of my head) at the moment are (Going by myspace hits/plays etc) are The Needles, : ( , The Little Kicks, Edgar Prais, Eddison, Right Hand Left. (any1 feel free to add to that) With Little Kicks gettin a Radio 1 live session spot recently and from what i seen Edgar Prais having reviews and an upcoming Spot @ KoKo for Club NME London. So well done to them for that. But to be honest, there is a load of shit out there too, course there is but im sure its the exact same in every city in the WORLD, for every good band there is from a place, there are a hundred crap ones i'm sure!! I think the people in the tunnels are doing a top job for getting bands who are not Arena Esqe to come here and put them on with local bands and get excitement in that way. dont u think?? I know i goto a good few!

Right fuck it, this is aint got over probably half the things i wanted to say, but now i cant be arsed as i have fucked about for 2 and a half hours doing this amongst other things and i am fallin asleep, So fuck it, im off to bed.... So long story short.... Things are going well in general, despite the miserable ones who have had their time and not made it into rock n Roll stardom and who now live in their Flat "off George St" with their run of the mill job that gets them by from month tro month and who are still bitter cause things have moved on to different levels and they are now too old and out of touch to even know what is really going on anymore anyway. MUSIC/TRENDS/CRAZES moves on & changes. GET OVER IT!

And the OXFORD DEFINITION of "Scenester":

Sorry, this doesn't return any matches.

Funny That.....

Now can we close this Thread!??

[Michael MacLennan]

The thing is Cloud, you live in Essex.

God forgive me for saying this, but that's the funniest and therefore probably best comment of this entire thread. The closest I've ever seen to comic timing being channelled perfectly into a message board conversation. Goodness me, that was unexpected.

[Billy Shears]

Is Byker Grove still on? Last time I saw it PJ and Duncan were in it...

Honestly, that is the worst, most POINTLESS post ever!!? Get a Life (or a gig, whatever comes first i guess! wouldn't hold my breath too long for the gig mind u)

[Old Gold]

Honestly, that is the worst, most POINTLESS post ever!!? Get a Life (or a gig, whatever comes first i guess! wouldn't hold my breath too long for the gig mind u)

Oh, burn.

Edit: might I add, with your simplistic, OED assisted run down of the local music scene, you've made yourself look like a bit of a pompous arsehole. Not everyone aspires to be in a stadium band.

[Cloud]

Edit: might I add, with your simplistic, OED assisted run down of the local music scene, you've made yourself look like a bit of a pompous arsehole. Not everyone aspires to be in a stadium band.

No need to insult his opinions, regardless of what he's personally said.

I think the fact that too many people here aspire not to be in a stadium band is partially what's wrong with the place - if they can't aspire to sell out 80,000 tickets, what hope have they got of aspiring to sell 300 tickets?

[Old Gold]

No need to insult his opinions, regardless of what he's personally said.

I think the fact that too many people here aspire not to be in a stadium band is partially what's wrong with the place - if they can't aspire to sell out 80,000 tickets, what hope have they got of aspiring to sell 300 tickets?

You look at it from a business person's perspective and I look at it from that of a musician who sees the merit in playing to an intimate, appreciative audience. Of course some people aspire to playing Wembley, but many don't. Deal with it: that doesn't make them bad musicians.

[Billy Shears]

You look at it from a business person's perspective and I look at it from that of a musician who sees the merit in playing to an intimate, appreciative audience. Of course some people aspire to playing Wembley, but many don't. Deal with it: that doesn't make them bad musicians.

You are just making things up that arent even there for the sake of an argument...

1. Where do i say that everyband aspires to be stadium bands

2. An those who dont are crap musicians

Many dont, your right, but do you know much people who initially form bands, (who are not over 35 or tribute acts) and think, "Yeaaaaaa, lets become legends in our own town," WE are ace and we could pack out The Lemon Tree eventually, but we dont wanna be gettin no major record deal and have our music enjoyed all over the world no wayyyy Jossssseeeee!" ITS THE WHOLE DREAM... which leads me to..

"Anyone, who lives within their means, suffers a complete lack of imagination,"

Do you live "off George St" by any chance?