ENGLISH smoking ban starts july

[pogofish]

Bill Hicks, there's a cunt than can talk about smoking...oh, except he can't coz he died...of cancer.

He had pancreatic cancer BTW. Quite unrelated to Smoking.

As for the ban - Still utterly unconvinced & as far as "workers health" goes, that means absolutely FA as far as the anti-smoking lobby are concerned. They were only interested in it as an excuse to hang their particular prejudice-on.

Also remember that the invitation-only consultations on drinking restrictions started sometime last year in Hollyrood. That clock is now ticking thanks to this ban.

Oh, fag sales are up & personally I've not had such a choice of regular lock-ins before.

[Chris]

Incidentally today is national no smoking day. Which has fucked me off, as I planned to give up today but I don't want to do it on no smoking day (having purposefully ignored it every other year). So I have left one solitary cigarette in my pack for the walk home after work then I'm done.

[Flash@TMB]

Still utterly unconvinced & as far as "workers health" goes

I've got a gadget at home for measuring peak airflow through the lungs in litres per minute. Got it prescribed by my GP 2 years ago when I was having trouble with my chest. The problem started within a few months of taking over the bar. I was experiencing shortness of breath, wheezyness, and coughing up stuff. Figured it was probably due to passive smoking. It was affecting me enough to have 3 powerful smoke removers installed, afterwards hardly any smoke was actually visible to the naked eye, but the symptoms persisted.

At the time of the ban my peak flow was 450 litres per minute. Now (I just checked) it's a healthy 610 litres per minute. That's a 36% increase. The symptoms are mostly gone.

I'm convinced.

[betamax]

I only ever see neds smoking these days which is good cos they will go infertile and therefor be able to breed less. They should be given free fags in fact. 40 Bensons a day at least.

The only bad thing about the smoking ban is that the smell of stale smoke previously masked the smell of putrid beer farts, B.O. and general toilet pongs eminating from the bogs. Clubs seem worst affected. By 1 am it fucking stinks in some places.

[pogofish]

The problem started within a few months of taking over the bar. I was experiencing shortness of breath, wheezyness, and coughing up stuff.

In your/Moorings case, it was probably a good thing. However, there were plenty of places where a more equitable compromise could have been found - However any attempt to find one was railroaded-out at the earliest opportunity.

Were those smoke-removers recirculating or fresh-air?

[Guest DustyDeviada]

However, there were plenty of places where a more equitable compromise could have been found

Please enlighten us as to what this compromise might have been.

[pogofish]

The only bad thing about the smoking ban is that the smell of stale smoke previously masked the smell of putrid beer farts, B.O. and general toilet pongs eminating from the bogs. Clubs seem worst affected. By 1 am it fucking stinks in some places.

That is preferable to those bloody-awful perfume squirters that so many places are now putting-in to try & mask them. I can have a pretty bad reaction to many of the awful chemically scents they use.

Oh, smoke machines - bloody throat-burning smoke machines:

Good for the lights but gimmie Fag smoke anyday!

Flash?

Oh & incense, who mentioned incense? I was in a pub in Edinburgh at the weekend where they had a whole hippy-altar's worth of the stuff smouldering away!

[pogofish]

Please enlighten us as to what this compromise might have been.

Plenty of places where there is room for a seperate ventilated smoking area & provision to licence smoking places. No question there should be proper provision for those who don't want to be bothered by smoke.

Easy, if you are not ideologically driven.

[jf9tp2wd40]

smoke machines have never bothered me before...

[Flash@TMB]

The only bad thing about the smoking ban is that the smell of stale smoke previously masked the smell of putrid beer farts, B.O. and general toilet pongs eminating from the bogs. Clubs seem worst affected. By 1 am it fucking stinks in some places.

We started burning incense last week. Was an improvement IMO.

[HairyScaryMark]

there were plenty of places where a more equitable compromise could have been found - However any attempt to find one was railroaded-out at the earliest opportunity.

Nonsense, the ban needed to be brought across the board as to not create competition between those where people can smoke and those where they could not. Publicans did not want a partial ban for this very reason.

The ban has been a complete success and will be extended elsewhere as everyone realises it.

I have Swiss relatives, they sounded sceptical that a smoking ban could/would be introduced in Switzerland as many cigerette companies are based there with huge lobbying power.

Also spoke to Austrians on holiday who also thought it was unlikely as 'everyone' smokes in Austria.

[Guest DustyDeviada]

Plenty of places where there is room for a seperate ventilated smoking area & provision to licence smoking places. No question there should be proper provision for those who don't want to be bothered by smoke.

Easy, if you are not ideologically driven.

Ventilation doesn't work I'm afraid, check out this excerpt from when evidence was being given at the Scottish Parliament on the Bill. An MSP (a Tory, funnily enough), was putting forward the same argument as you and got badly pwned by the medical experts giving evidence. All ventilation does is take away the smoky smell, so you THINK you are breathing clean air, but it leaves behind the carcinogens, ie the stuff that causes cancer.

The Scottish Parliament - Health Committee Official Report

Of course there may be people out there who think that pogofish is more of an expert on these matters than Dr Helene Irvine, consultant in public medicine for Greater Glasgow NHS Board, but I'm not one of them.

In any case, as an ex-smoker the ban seems like an excellent way to meet women while outside having a fag.

Oh, and here's a study by some professor dude showing the impact that the ban has had on the health of bar staff, but again I'm sure that you know much more than him.

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/business/committees/health/papers-07/hep07-02.pdf (Page 9)

[pogofish]

Nonsense, the ban needed to be brought across the board as to not create competition between those where people can smoke and those where they could not. Publicans did not want a partial ban for this very reason.

And exactly how is that any different from the current situation between places with outoor space & legal clout to get permission for an outdoor smoking area & those without?

Or indeed for those places who have replaced smoke with fried food, which produces fumes that are at least as potentially dangerous as tobacco smoke?

[pogofish]

Ventilation doesn't work I'm afraid,

In any case, as an ex-smoker the ban seems like an excellent way to meet women while outside having a fag.

Again, the ventilation debate was railroaded-up a rather blind alley by concentrating on recirculating systems to the virtual exclusion of everything else.

Yes & just how many of them are non-smokers bumming a fag so they don't feel left out?

[Diesel]

As for the ban - Still utterly unconvinced & as far as "workers health" goes, that means absolutely FA as far as the anti-smoking lobby are concerned. They were only interested in it as an excuse to hang their particular prejudice-on.

Sez who? Source please?

[pogofish]

Of course there may be people out there who think that pogofish is more of an expert on these matters than Dr Helene Irvine, consultant in public medicine for Greater Glasgow NHS Board, but I'm not one of them.

The medical profession/NHS took a political stance on smoking a very long time ago, again often to the exclusion of many other compounding factors - maybe with some justification. This would tend to render any evidence a bit suspect IMO.

[Diesel]

Yes & just how many of them are non-smokers bumming a fag so they don't feel left out?

Left out of what?

[pogofish]

Sez who? Source please?

ASH - they went absolutely gleefull when Ireland got its ban & they realised the same angle could be used here.

[TR!ΔNGL€ T€€TH]

Left out of what?

The cool gang I would presume.

[Diesel]

The medical profession/NHS took a political stance on smoking a very long time ago, again often to the exclusion of many other compounding factors - maybe with some justification. This would tend to render any evidence a bit suspect IMO.

Well, you can take that up with them when you get that excrutiating pain down your left arm and severe shortness of breath

Most likely they'll say "fuck and an heal thyself, you sanctimonious, ill-informed cunt"

[pogofish]

Left out of what?

Dare I say it? Civilised & sociable company!

[Diesel]

Dare I say it? Civilised & sociable company!

[Guest DustyDeviada]

Again, the ventilation debate was railroaded-up a rather blind alley by concentrating on recirculating systems to the virtual exclusion of everything else.

Well, as per the link I already posted, according to Paul Ballard, consultant in Health Promotion for NHS Tayside:

I understand that there must be a tornado-strength ventilation system to remove the whole risk.

The Scottish Parliament - Health Committee Official Report

But please, feel free to post any similar links to evidence which backs up your agrguments, assuming of course that it doesn't come from Philip Morris, the Tobbaco Manufacturers Association or the Conservative & Unionist Party.

[pogofish]

Most likely they'll say "fuck and an heal thyself, you sanctimonious, ill-informed cunt"

Medics have twice taken me to the brink of death with their fuck-ups & I endured several years of severe pain due to a seriously incompetent misdiagnosis of another thing.

They ain't all that you know.

One thing tho, in the most recent check-out that followed them nearly killing me with the wrong anasthetic, they did confirm that there was absolutely no sign of any damage/changes that might be associated with smoking to my heart & lungs & I can still put in a hard physical workout several times a week. Think I might have a few years left!

[delboy]

nowt wrong with the smoking ban a lot of fuss over nothing. and i'm a smoker, no point getting all upset about it. i was fiercly against it until experiencing it for myself. smoke free pubs actually do create a better environment and the craic outside when puffing is usually really good. and us smokers don't smoke nearly as many on a night out on the sauce which creates (well for me anyway) much less of a hangover!!!