Jump to content
aberdeen-music
Sign in to follow this  
bladeola

Some Mic help?

Recommended Posts

Perhaps some of the live sound engineers here can help.

Ok, I own and use two mic's at the moment. I have a Standard Sm58 as my back up and my main is a Beta 58. I love Shure and don't need anyone going on about Sennheiser thankyou very much...my mind is made up on Shure :)

Anyway, I got the Beta about 6 months ago as reading reviews etc it pretty much got the thumbs up everytime and most said it was just like the normal 58 but about 3db loudr and didnt need as much playing with EQ wise. I have been delighted with it.

However, on our last wee jaunt down south we played Cheltenham and when we were soundchecking Dan was wayyyy louder and was using the clubs standard 58. The sound guy couldn't understand it then what we did was switched to my old standard 58 and the level was right up where it should be. The Beta was still putting out a signal and hasn't taken any knocks or anything. The sound guy was a nice guy and we chatted and he said that sometimes certain mics just dont go with certain PA's. He said it's unexplainable and there seems to be no rhyme nor reason to it. Id used teh Beta in Brighton the night before and it was fine.

Anyone got any ideas?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Perhaps some of the live sound engineers here can help.

Ok, I own and use two mic's at the moment. I have a Standard Sm58 as my back up and my main is a Beta 58. I love Shure and don't need anyone going on about Sennheiser thankyou very much...my mind is made up on Shure :)

Anyway, I got the Beta about 6 months ago as reading reviews etc it pretty much got the thumbs up everytime and most said it was just like the normal 58 but about 3db loudr and didnt need as much playing with EQ wise. I have been delighted with it.

However, on our last wee jaunt down south we played Cheltenham and when we were soundchecking Dan was wayyyy louder and was using the clubs standard 58. The sound guy couldn't understand it then what we did was switched to my old standard 58 and the level was right up where it should be. The Beta was still putting out a signal and hasn't taken any knocks or anything. The sound guy was a nice guy and we chatted and he said that sometimes certain mics just dont go with certain PA's. He said it's unexplainable and there seems to be no rhyme nor reason to it. Id used teh Beta in Brighton the night before and it was fine.

Anyone got any ideas?

An intermittent fault on either pin 2 or 3 of the mic cable seems the most likely cause from the info you've given. The Beta would still put out signal, just 6 dB less, my article here will hopefully be clear enough for you to understand why.

It's not uncommon for intermittent faults to manifest themselves then disappear for hours, days, even weeks.

Have you had any problems with the Beta subsequently? If you haven't, it looks like it was just a dodgy mic cable.

As for certain mics not going with certain PA's, no idea what he's on about there, I've checked the specs on both mics and their impedance is pretty much the same, so an impedance mis-match is ruled out. The only time I've ever had compatibility problems with mics was a desk not having enough oomph in it's phantom power to supply the swathes of BBC condensers it was trying to power.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The chances are it is leads...alot of these places have terrible leads it seems. Where should I take my mics then as I'd like them both checked out?

Thanks for the info as well!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The chances are it is leads...alot of these places have terrible leads it seems. Where should I take my mics then as I'd like them both checked out?

Thanks for the info as well!

Yeah, the leads take a lot of abuse in most places and normally you'll get the same few cables used again and again for vocals because they're the only ones long enough to reach the front of the stage, so they get much more abuse than the rest.

You should maybe take your own cable to plug into theirs, tape the end of both down with a bit of gaffer tape and the only bit that moves is yours, so in theory even if their mic lead is dodgy, it should keep working properly because it's not being moved.

I've no idea where you could get them checked but I know how I'd test their signal levels using just a mixer, a constant noise source (e.g. pink/white noise) and a hi-fi/small pa.

I've just had a thought, it could have been engineer error, maybe there was shit loads of compression on the channel, which he didn't notice until you'd changed mics, and he decided to keep quiet.Not that I've ever done that :dunce:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah, the leads take a lot of abuse in most places and normally you'll get the same few cables used again and again for vocals because they're the only ones long enough to reach the front of the stage, so they get much more abuse than the rest.

You should maybe take your own cable to plug into theirs, tape the end of both down with a bit of gaffer tape and the only bit that moves is yours, so in theory even if their mic lead is dodgy, it should keep working properly because it's not being moved.

I've no idea where you could get them checked but I know how I'd test their signal levels using just a mixer, a constant noise source (e.g. pink/white noise) and a hi-fi/small pa.

I've just had a thought, it could have been engineer error, maybe there was shit loads of compression on the channel, which he didn't notice until you'd changed mics, and he decided to keep quiet.Not that I've ever done that :dunce:

haha, possibly huh? I dunno, I might go into atmosphere as they are always helpful in there. Yeah I used to take my own cable with me but i just tended to break them.

If I went into Captain Toms, would someone there be able to tell the mics were working ok by looing at the signal?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
haha, possibly huh? I dunno, I might go into atmosphere as they are always helpful in there. Yeah I used to take my own cable with me but i just tended to break them.

And you wonder why the venues have mic cable problems

If I went into Captain Toms, would someone there be able to tell the mics were working ok by looing at the signal?

Should do.

Try this:

Position the mic close to a speaker, use something to measure the distance because you need to put the other mic in exactly the same position.

Play some sort of constant noise through the speakers, preferably pink noise but some held notes on a keyboard covering a fairly wide frequency range should do it.

Adjust the gain on the mic so the meter is at 0db on the pfl.

Put the other mic on in exactly the same position, don't touch anything else, it should be the same, or near enough (maybe you will see the 3dB difference in the Beta, maybe not, most meters at round about 0 dB measure +/- 3 dB but they're usually not calibrated very precisely ).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And you wonder why the venues have mic cable problems

Should do.

Try this:

Position the mic close to a speaker, use something to measure the distance because you need to put the other mic in exactly the same position.

Play some sort of constant noise through the speakers, preferably pink noise but some held notes on a keyboard covering a fairly wide frequency range should do it.

Adjust the gain on the mic so the meter is at 0db on the pfl.

Put the other mic on in exactly the same position, don't touch anything else, it should be the same, or near enough (maybe you will see the 3dB difference in the Beta, maybe not, most meters at round about 0 dB measure +/- 3 dB but they're usually not calibrated very precisely ).

Cool...sounds good...I shall give that a go this evening.

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The sound guy was a nice guy and we chatted and he said that sometimes certain mics just dont go with certain PA's. He said it's unexplainable and there seems to be no rhyme nor reason to it.

For example; a microphone with a lot of presence going through a system with a deficient high end will sound better than a duller sounding microphone, however, in a properly tuned system, the duller microphone may shine as the mic with a lot of presence appears to be very harsh/piercing.

Hardly unexplainable, but usually unexpected, especially when the cheaper mic sounds better because its making up for a deficiency in the (usually cheap) sound system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you like those Shure mics you should invest in an SM7 for your studio work....these have got really popular with LOUD vocalists in the past few years for studio vocals as they have the definition and clarity needed for recording, plus the benefits of having a mic you can hold in your hand while you record, ie...you can act like you do on stage rather than trying to work up a convincing performance standing behind a pop shield and music stand singing into a mic that looks like its made for recording opera ;) Dunno if it would be any cope live however...

SM7.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't pretend to be any form of expert but to me it sounds like the most likely cause of your problems were probably either the microphone cable or the sound engineer. Just becuase the sound engineer was a nice guy doesn't mean he didn't make a mistake.

I've done stupid things before like turn up a fader, wonder why the instrument doesn't become any louder but I start to get feedback. I then realise it is the wrong channel.

I find it unlikely that any damage has been caused to your microphones through this also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you like those Shure mics you should invest in an SM7 for your studio work....these have got really popular with LOUD vocalists in the past few years for studio vocals as they have the definition and clarity needed for recording, plus the benefits of having a mic you can hold in your hand while you record, ie...you can act like you do on stage rather than trying to work up a convincing performance standing behind a pop shield and music stand singing into a mic that looks like its made for recording opera ;) Dunno if it would be any cope live however...

SM7.jpg

Good choice!

I know that James Hetfield used one without the pop-sheild for St Anger (yes, some might cringe). Devin Townsend also uses one. Im sure Keilan once said that its actually a broadcaster mike!

Slightly digressing but I also heard that it does no harm to boost the treble a bit for metal vocals. Anyway, I will shut up now and get back to taking photos:up:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Im sure Keilan once said that its actually a broadcaster mike!

Shure SM7B Microphone:

"Extremely popular radio and TV mic that features excellent shielding against electromagnetic hum. Includes a mounting bracket for precise control of mic position. Cardioid, Dynamic."

It appears that he was right :) Not sure if St Anger is the best promotion for it though :moody:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seen them in use on a few studio videos. Wouldn't mind one as an addition to my 'studio'. Seem to be used for male vocals that have a bit of edge.

I say 'studio' as I am having major problems with computers currently and any recording has ceased to function for the moment.

On boosting treble. I generally found that most melody instruments (such as voice and lead guitar) benefit from a boost in the upper mids type section (similar to what the frequency response of the SM7 does naturally). Every instrument is to some extent, personal and will be slightly differnet. I also found that rolling off the highest frequencies to generally be a good idea as most cheap stereo systems will sound pants in those ranges.

You generally also want to hi pass everything (within reason) apart from kick drum and bass.

The idea is to boost the peak frequency range of the instrument, help it cut through the mix and/or make it sound nicer. You don't always want to help some instruments cut through the mix and some instruments sound awful in those ranges so this is hardly scientific.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...