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GraemeC

Guns...

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A few years ago there was an incident where a fucking nutter killed people with legally owned and some illegal firearms...the reaction by HM government was to ban the ownership of handguns. Now I know a lot of people didn't understand why private citizens needed to own handguns but the fact was that little or no crimes were ever committed with legal weapons but they were banned anyway, this of course was the easy option as it cost nothing to ban them and it kept the general public happy....

So here we are several years down the line and guess what...gun crime is 100 times worse, so what is the governments next big idea to reduce gun crime? banning replica guns!!! what in the name of fuck will that do? getting tough on street gangs!!! what the fuck will that do?

Whats needed is a huge investment in manpower and technology so customs can stop the guns (and drugs) coming into the country in the first place. In fact if they just stopped the drugs there would be no money to buy guns and little point in owning them...

Thats my opinion...whats yours?

G...

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A few years ago there was an incident where a fucking nutter killed people with legally owned and some illegal firearms...the reaction by HM government was to ban the ownership of handguns. Now I know a lot of people didn't understand why private citizens needed to own handguns but the fact was that little or no crimes were ever committed with legal weapons but they were banned anyway, this of course was the easy option as it cost nothing to ban them and it kept the general public happy....

So here we are several years down the line and guess what...gun crime is 100 times worse, so what is the governments next big idea to reduce gun crime? banning replica guns!!! what in the name of fuck will that do? getting tough on street gangs!!! what the fuck will that do?

Whats needed is a huge investment in manpower and technology so customs can stop the guns (and drugs) coming into the country in the first place. In fact if they just stopped the drugs there would be no money to buy guns and little point in owning them...

Thats my opinion...whats yours?

G...

If gun crime has got so bad, then some people will have cottoned onto the fact that threatening someone with a replica gun has the same desired effect but doesn't carry the same penalties.

I see no need for guns other than self-defence (and I see even less need for replica guns), but I don't think I'd like a country where only the military and police had them either.

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Switzerland has the greatest percentage of privately owned firearms (mostly full auto assault weapons) and the lowest level of violent crime in the world...what does that tell you?

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If gun crime has got so bad, then some people will have cottoned onto the fact that threatening someone with a replica gun has the same desired effect but doesn't carry the same penalties.

the penalty I believe is just the same...but the police should just shoot armed criminals, real guns or not.

but I don't think I'd like a country where only the military and police had them either.

Well you are in one.

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Switzerland has the greatest percentage of privately owned firearms (mostly full auto assault weapons) and the lowest level of violent crime in the world...what does that tell you?

Nothing, other than your average Swiss is not as disenfranchised and hedonistic as your average Yank or "Great" Brit and is better educated and much more rational.

The sad fact is that for all our advances in technologies, medicine and all our arts and the wonderful things we do right - humans are basically savage and destructive.

Whether it's a plummy-voiced, Oxbridge-educated toff engineering a hostile takeover of some company or driving the price of vital commodities up...

...or two kids in Mosside shooting the shite out of each other, the effect is the same -man's complete disregard for his brother.

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Whats needed is a huge investment in manpower and technology so customs can stop the guns (and drugs) coming into the country in the first place. In fact if they just stopped the drugs there would be no money to buy guns and little point in owning them...

Thats my opinion...whats yours?

G...

Problem is, HMRC's attitude needs to change regarding imports before anything else can happen. There's plenty of websites out there outlining some of the abuses done by Customs in this country, particularly at channel ports. There's supposed to be no formal customs control between EU countries, yet the blue lane in airports is often manned by someone (even though the blue lane is supposed to be a bypass through customs, not just a lane for people arriving from within the EU). Even two weeks ago, I got briefly questioned by customs about where I'd been on a daytrip when arriving in Dover - so really, their whole attitude is wrong.

For anything to change, they'd have to stop picking on easy targets.

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I cannot believe that people would argue that having guns is a good thing. Why legalise something that can do harm on someone else? Why not legalise drugs? Isn't a question of human rights and the fact that we should be able to control what goes in our bodies? People are always going to get a hold of drugs if they want them, that much is true, we see it every day. But if you were to legalise drugs you would eliminate a black market and take the money out of it anyway and the government would have a quality control to help reduce the number of drug related deaths. And even if they don't have a quality control, its that persons choice to be putting the substance into their bodies in the first place. They know and are willing to run the risk so i say let them. They are going to do it anyway are they not?

Ciaran

x

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doesn't the term replica guns include guns which can be reactivated to fire live ammo? which is where a large portion of the illegal firearms are coming from. seems fairly sensible to me. what justification is there for someone owning a 'replica' ak47?

as for the general ban on handguns. brilliant idea, no problem with it whatsoever. it's a shame it penalised those who had a genuine interest in the sport side of shooting but i think overall it's for the best.

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Guest DustyDeviada

"Switzerland has the greatest percentage of privately owned firearms (mostly full auto assault weapons) and the lowest level of violent crime in the world...what does that tell you?"

heston180.jpg

:rolleyes:

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doesn't the term replica guns include guns which can be reactivated to fire live ammo? which is where a large portion of the illegal firearms are coming from. seems fairly sensible to me. what justification is there for someone owning a 'replica' ak47?

as for the general ban on handguns. brilliant idea, no problem with it whatsoever. it's a shame it penalised those who had a genuine interest in the sport side of shooting but i think overall it's for the best.

How are guns a sport? I've never understood that. You don't exactly need to be fit to do it. If shooting is classed as a sport then I'm the world champion of sitting on my ass doing fuck all and I'm thinking of entering next years eating and sleeping national play-offs. The Competition is pretty fierce though... :)

Not having a go, understand what your saying, just something i never really understood, same with F1, is that a sport?

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Guest Tam o' Shantie
How are guns a sport? I've never understood that. You don't exactly need to be fit to do it. If shooting is classed as a sport then I'm the world champion of sitting on my ass doing fuck all and I'm thinking of entering next years eating and sleeping national play-offs. The Competition is pretty fierce though... :)

Not having a go, understand what your saying, just something i never really understood, same with F1, is that a sport?

What? Shooting is a sport. How could you argue against this? And are you having a fucking laugh about F1?

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How are guns a sport? I've never understood that. You don't exactly need to be fit to do it. If shooting is classed as a sport then I'm the world champion of sitting on my ass doing fuck all and I'm thinking of entering next years eating and sleeping national play-offs. The Competition is pretty fierce though... :)

Not having a go, understand what your saying, just something i never really understood, same with F1, is that a sport?

Go to a range and have a go at it, you'll find it's quite a demanding sport and there's a lot of skill involved.

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I cannot believe that people would argue that having guns is a good thing. Why legalise something that can do harm on someone else? Why not legalise drugs? Isn't a question of human rights and the fact that we should be able to control what goes in our bodies? People are always going to get a hold of drugs if they want them, that much is true, we see it every day. But if you were to legalise drugs you would eliminate a black market and take the money out of it anyway and the government would have a quality control to help reduce the number of drug related deaths. And even if they don't have a quality control, its that persons choice to be putting the substance into their bodies in the first place. They know and are willing to run the risk so i say let them. They are going to do it anyway are they not?

Ciaran

x

legalising drugs would be silly, it would just bring the price down and it would be seen as socially acceptable. dont think that because we know its bad for us that we wouldnt take/use it.

cigarettes anyone? alcohol?

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What? Shooting is a sport. How could you argue against this? And are you having a fucking laugh about F1?

Again, its not physical testing is it? And what do you mean? I never argued against it. I questioned the reasoning behind it. I didn't actually say that I didn't agree with it being classed as a sport, I just asked a question. My understanding of sports were that they were quite physical active things, not just skilled. Some of the tasks people carry out in the daily lifes are quite skilled but we don't make a sport out of everything. I'm not a big sports guy, like football, but never took an interest in most sports. I know I'm nieve in the subject, hence why i asked.

I totally disagree with guns and can't see how anyone can argue differently, but then again i was closer to the Dunblane dissaster than most so thats maybe why i have that opinion. Doesn't mean that anyone of us are right or wrong. I even said I wasn't having a go so that it wasn't misinterpreted. I'm not the only person with this opinion so i don't know why you get wound up enough to have to swear. I haven't made a point that would be 'controversial' or that thousands of people don't already share with me, like there are thousands that share your opinion. But it would appear that you have taken my thought to heart, which i apologise about, but doesn't stop me thinking the way i do.

Some people enjoy shooting, others enjoy other intestests, some people agree, some disagree, some like to disagree with statements that are neither agreeing or disagreeing with a topic but simply asking a question, some people sit on high horses, you know, variety, makes the world go round.

Ciaranx

Disclaimer: My statements in my post are not intended to offend anyone or anything. In the unlikely event that it does, I sincerly apologise in advance.

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I think you'll find f1 is physically testing...

The drivers have to be in tip top shape to withstand the G-force and the lose quite a few pounds during a race.

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legalising drugs would be silly, it would just bring the price down and it would be seen as socially acceptable. dont think that because we know its bad for us that we wouldnt take/use it.

cigarettes anyone? alcohol?

Thats not my point though, are there less people now taking drugs because they are illegal? Is there less people taking drugs since the 'war on drugs' started in the U.S. and Britain? No, there are more people taking drugs at a younger age now thatn there was 20years ago. Because they are illegal doen't stop people taking them. Also, I find that, especially in the last 5 years, smoking is becoming socially UNACCEPTABLE, no smoking in public places and all. I'm a smoker (I don't take drugs) but i think this is a good thing because i DON'T like it and I don't like subjecting others to it. The same way that drugs can be legal AND socially unacceptable. But, regardless of that, we probably have the 2 more dangerous drugs! More people die from the result of drink and alcohol abuse than any other drug. It doesn't actually make sense. Go the oposite way and ban alcohol and drugs? You create another black market for more crime. It's our bodies, let us put what we want in it! :)

Ciaranx

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Again, its not physical testing is it?

It is physically testing, especially if you are out in the field shooting. Guns are heavy things, and a day of clay pigeon shooting for example will certainly test your stamina. There's nothing wrong with guns or drugs, it's society which creates people who get fucked up ideas about how to use or abuse them.

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I think you'll find f1 is physically testing...

The drivers have to be in tip top shape to withstand the G-force and the lose quite a few pounds during a race.

Fair enough, i was actually talking about shooting there, but like I said I'm nieve on the subject. There is obviously something good about F1 because people enjoy it and it doesn't really hurt anyone, except maybe the drivers, but thats their own risk. I'm not argueing against it.

Ciaranx

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It is physically testing, especially if you are out in the field shooting. Guns are heavy things, and a day of clay pigeon shooting for example will certainly test your stamina. There's nothing wrong with guns or drugs, it's society which creates people who get fucked up ideas about how to use or abuse them.

I don't think it is society, its the fact that we are humans with emotions and thoughts. I fail to see how society can create people unless we are a little further along with the cloning thing than i was lead to believe. Look at other societies, animals, they have homocides but I'm sure it wasn't because of something they saw on TV. Its natural for people to be violent/angry/unset/happy its just some are better at controlling it than others. It just makes sense to me to not have a very lethal weapon in the hands of people who can't control their emotions, and if that means no-one can have them, then so be it.

Ciaranx

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Guest Tam o' Shantie
Again, its not physical testing is it? And what do you mean? I never argued against it. I questioned the reasoning behind it. I didn't actually say that I didn't agree with it being classed as a sport, I just asked a question. My understanding of sports were that they were quite physical active things, not just skilled. Some of the tasks people carry out in the daily lifes are quite skilled but we don't make a sport out of everything. I'm not a big sports guy, like football, but never took an interest in most sports. I know I'm nieve in the subject, hence why i asked.

F1 driving is incredibly demanding on the body, it requires astonishing strength and stamina to keep control over a vehicle travelling that fast, and the resist the cornering force etc. The heat in the cockpit is seriously high and drivers sweat buckets too, they can lose kilos of weight over the course of a race. I've never raced anything faster than karts, but after doing two 45km races a few months ago I felt like I'd run a marathon the next morning! I'm not a fan of watching racing at all, but you have to appreciate that world class drivers are amongst the most physically fit in the world.

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Fair enough, i was actually talking about shooting there, but like I said I'm nieve on the subject. There is obviously something good about F1 because people enjoy it and it doesn't really hurt anyone, except maybe the drivers, but thats their own risk. I'm not argueing against it.

Ciaranx

Read this Tom!

P.S. I also don't really care that much about F1, hence why I don't watch/follow it so you post was a waste of both of our time.

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Read this Tom!

P.S. I also don't really care that much about F1, hence why I don't watch/follow it so you post was a waste of both of our time.

do you care about being wrong, though?

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Guest Tam o' Shantie

Clay shooting is fun and demanding on your upper body strength. I've never in my life wanted to shoot someone, but I have had a lot of fun using guns for sport. At the end of the day, Archery involves lethal ballistics, but nobody would ban a bow and arrow. Baseball bats in the wrong hands are pretty offensive weapons too. I don't think banning all guns is the answer. Does anybody actually regularly participate in shooting sports that could comment on this?

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Clay shooting is fun and demanding on your upper body strength. I've never in my life wanted to shoot someone, but I have had a lot of fun using guns for sport. At the end of the day, Archery involves lethal ballistics, but nobody would ban a bow and arrow. Baseball bats in the wrong hands are pretty offensive weapons too. I don't think banning all guns is the answer. Does anybody actually regularly participate in shooting sports that could comment on this?

Thats a fair enough point to make, but are you willing to take the risk of one of you family members getting SHOT?! Knives are offensive weapons, so are plates, so are necklaces, so are pens, anything is an offensive weapon in the wrong hands. That the point I made earlier, its going to happen no matter what because that is the nature of people, i just don't think its a good idea to take the chance in the first place. You might not want to shoot someone but who's to say that Jim down the road who has 2 kids and a wife, stable job and stable lifestyle doesn't one day wake up and decide he wants to shoot a class of school kids? Can you give me that guarantee? Guns were made to kill. No, not clay pigeons, people. that is their standard job if you will.

Ah screw it, give everyone a gun and watch the fun begin.

Ciaranx

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