Marsh Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 'Twas a joke, dude! I got what you were saying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonie Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 the manics for me just come across as uppity and self-righteous. at least zacks delivery gives the impression that he really is fuelled by his passion about the subject matter, without just sounding like someone who's got a bricker because he knows more than you! /x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingin' Ryan Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Just because he knows what he's talking about doesn't mean that he always gets his point across. Good tunes though.I think the style of music limits his ability to stretch out long and poetic lines. I've always been most impressed with his choice of subject matter, other than The Manics, there aren't many other bands of that era who've covered such a span of issues and references.the manics for me just come across as uppity and self-righteous. at least zacks delivery gives the impression that he really is fuelled by his passion about the subject matter, without just sounding like someone who's got a bricker because he knows more than you! /xThat's a lot more to do with the delivery of the words though, Zack's delivery is almost always aggresive as that's the kind of music he's making, whereas The Manic's stuff ranges from very direct and up-front vocals like Faster and Masses Against the Classes to more gracefully sung lyrics like on This Is Yesterday and Black Dog On My Shoulder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonie Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 yeah, i guess so. i don't mind the manics that much but i absolutely love zack's passion and, as they say, his flow is tight! /x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 That's a beauty, that one. It really is. tell me why then at a ratm bootleg i heard after people didnt take their message seriously by jumping about and being idiots, zach then said "if you want to do this shit then we will just walk offstage and not perform because that is not what we are about"Then again you might be totally clueless about what ratm shows are like, this clearly shows a divide between the band and the fan base Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 that zack was the political force in rage is a common misconception. tom morello was (and still is) every bit as politically minded as zack. /xStrange one there really, sure tom helped the cause, but zach did the talking in all ratm dvds when their was a message to put across, if what you're saying is true though then why didnt tom have input? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 I wouldn't say he was a particularly impressive political lyricist. Give me a few examples of who are then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 This is the great tragedy of Rage Against the Machine, that they will forever be remembered for that line and associated with typical teen rebellion, when infact Zack is up there with the great political lyricists, IMO. He's one of the few politically vocal musicians who knows exactly what he's talking about as opposed to just mouthing off meaningless statements like "Fuck Bush and Fuck the system".good post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen B Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Give me a few examples of who are thenHe already did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsh Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 after people didnt take their message seriously by jumping about and being idiots, zach then said "if you want to do this shit then we will just walk offstage and not perform because that is not what we are about"That's comedy gold! Did They do a survey of the entire crowd and ask them: "Are you taking our message seriously?" "NO""You mean you've come to a rock gig to JUMP ABOUT????"Infidels!"Then again you might be totally clueless about what ratm shows are like, this clearly shows a divide between the band and the fan baseI've seen them playing live. I, along with thousands of others went mental the entire gig.The way you're talking I don't think you're old enough to have attended a Rage gig.zach did the talking in all ratm dvds when their was a message to put across Zack probably did all the talking in their (sic) DVDs as he was, gasp - the frontman of the band. Funny that - the frontman doing all the talking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonie Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Zack probably did all the talking in their (sic) DVDs as he was, gasp - the frontman of the band. Funny that - the frontman doing all the talking.exactly. just because tom doesn't speak on a few DVDs the band released, that means absolutely nothing. after all, weren't you the one who implied that zack wasn't happy about commercial releases and was more interested in political action? or, in fact, have you just been talking baws this whole time? /x 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 That's comedy gold! Did They do a survey of the entire crowd and ask them: "Are you taking our message seriously?" "NO""You mean you've come to a rock gig to JUMP ABOUT????"Infidels!"your sarcasm totally misses the point, i based my comments on fact, your based your comment on idiocy I've seen them playing live. I' date=' along with thousands of others went mental the entire gig.The way you're talking I don't think you're old enough to have attended a Rage gig.[/quote']Yet again your post is flawed, seems to me that you simply dont get what the band where about and that you would rather jump about than take in the message they try to put across, another point you dont need to have been present at a rage against the machine gig since their are numerous dvds, audio and visual bootlegs to know about rage against the machine Zack probably did all the talking in their (sic) DVDs as he was' date=' gasp - the frontman of the band. Funny that - the frontman doing all the talking.[/quote']Certainly didnt stop tom from talking aswell though did it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsh Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 your sarcasm totally misses the point, i based my comments on fact, your based your comment on idiocyOkay, let's get this knocked on the head if you're going to be smart:You originally said:after people didnt take their message seriously by jumping about and being idiotsHow the fuck can you FACTUALLY say that people weren't "taking their message seriously?" Is it not okay to take in what the band are saying while moshing? If you are shouting along to every word as if your life depends on it one would safely assume that you are "taking in the message." And you must be a right fucking laugh if you think people jumping constitutes being an idiot. At a rock gig? At a FUCKING RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE GIG? Zack knew just as well as anyone that folk came to their gigs for a mosh and a bounce. Morello positively encourages movement and safe moshing at gigs. So, no, in actual fact your post was not based on fact. You cannot factually say that the crowd were taking in the Rage "message" and they were being "idiots." And my post was not based on idiocy. I'll let you into a wee secret here - Rage's music makes people want to move / mosh / bounce / slam dance / whatever you want to call it. It doesn't make people want to stand and stroke their chin and think "hhhmmmm - good message they're conyeying there." Yet again your post is flawed, seems to me that you simply dont get what the band where about and that you would rather jump about than take in the message they try to put across, another point you dont need to have been present at a rage against the machine gig since their are numerous dvds, audio and visual bootlegs to know about rage against the machineOh, I get what the band were about. Seeing a picture on an album sleeve of a monk burning himself to death made me investiage the image further. Hearing all these refernces in the songs made me check out the meanings. The mailouts I got from Rage all contained useful information and knowledge. Che Guevarra was often used as a symbol by Rage and I got off my arse and actually investigated who this guy was because of that. All when I was still at school. So don't tell me I don't know what the band were about. It's not a case of "rather jumping about than taking in the message" - you go to a gig to jump about. Like I said of all bands Rage were a prime candidate of a band you'd see for a big slice of pit action. During the gig you'd shout along to every word and take it all in while jumping about - multi tasking you see. On the way out you'd get handed a flyer of good causes which you could check out if you were interested. You didn't have to sign a clasue that said "I will fully digest all the political issues and ideaologies presented to me" before you attended a Rage gig or bought one of their records. Like I said ages ago in this thread - loads of people love Rage for their monstorous riffs and bounceability factor. What's wrong with that? Personally i'm probably about 99% into the music and 1% into the politics and "message" I'm fully aware that "their" are plently of Rage DVDs and bootlegs available and you wouldn't have had to attend a show to understand anything. I would, however, love to see you at a politcally motivated gig caught in a mosh saying - "hold on, chaps - we're missing the message here."Certainly didnt stop tom from talking aswell though did itIndeed it never stopped him. Maybe they agreed that Zack would do all the talking so they wouldn't talk over each other. Maybe Tom was having a bad day and didn't want to be too outspoken. Maybe he had a sore throat and couldn't speak much. Maybe he was in silent protest. The fact is, you can't judge how politically motivated the guy is because his bandmate does all the talking. Anyway, i'm off to watch the Live at Grand Olympic DVD and observe the audience knocking seven shades of shit out of each other while Zack screams at them. He seems happy enough for that to happen in that DVD......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Okay, let's get this knocked on the head if you're going to be smart:You originally said:How the fuck can you FACTUALLY say that people weren't "taking their message seriously?" Is it not okay to take in what the band are saying while moshing? If you are shouting along to every word as if your life depends on it one would safely assume that you are "taking in the message." And you must be a right fucking laugh if you think people jumping constitutes being an idiot. At a rock gig? At a FUCKING RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE GIG? Zack knew just as well as anyone that folk came to their gigs for a mosh and a bounce. Morello positively encourages movement and safe moshing at gigs. So, no, in actual fact your post was not based on fact. You cannot factually say that the crowd were taking in the Rage "message" and they were being "idiots." And my post was not based on idiocy. I'll let you into a wee secret here - Rage's music makes people want to move / mosh / bounce / slam dance / whatever you want to call it. It doesn't make people want to stand and stroke their chin and think "hhhmmmm - good message they're conyeying there." Oh, I get what the band were about. Seeing a picture on an album sleeve of a monk burning himself to death made me investiage the image further. Hearing all these refernces in the songs made me check out the meanings. The mailouts I got from Rage all contained useful information and knowledge. Che Guevarra was often used as a symbol by Rage and I got off my arse and actually investigated who this guy was because of that. All when I was still at school. So don't tell me I don't know what the band were about. It's not a case of "rather jumping about than taking in the message" - you go to a gig to jump about. Like I said of all bands Rage were a prime candidate of a band you'd see for a big slice of pit action. During the gig you'd shout along to every word and take it all in while jumping about - multi tasking you see. On the way out you'd get handed a flyer of good causes which you could check out if you were interested. You didn't have to sign a clasue that said "I will fully digest all the political issues and ideaologies presented to me" before you attended a Rage gig or bought one of their records. Like I said ages ago in this thread - loads of people love Rage for their monstorous riffs and bounceability factor. What's wrong with that? Personally i'm probably about 99% into the music and 1% into the politics and "message" I'm fully aware that "their" are plently of Rage DVDs and bootlegs available and you wouldn't have had to attend a show to understand anything. I would, however, love to see you at a politcally motivated gig caught in a mosh saying - "hold on, chaps - we're missing the message here."Indeed it never stopped him. Maybe they agreed that Zack would do all the talking so they wouldn't talk over each other. Maybe Tom was having a bad day and didn't want to be too outspoken. Maybe he had a sore throat and couldn't speak much. Maybe he was in silent protest. The fact is, you can't judge how politically motivated the guy is because his bandmate does all the talking. Anyway, i'm off to watch the Live at Grand Olympic DVD and observe the audience knocking seven shades of shit out of each other while Zack screams at them. He seems happy enough for that to happen in that DVD.........Then tell me this, who are the winners with zacks animosity towards some of the fanbase with them not being able to understand what ratm are about and then him quiting? Also tell me this, who are the winners if the band stops playing and goes home because of zacks feelings?Are you then calling zack a liar? If you believe in what he does as a person then on the other hand say he is wrong, seems a bit hypocritical to me, it wasnt my words, it was his.I am using the zacks words to explain my argument simply because i am in agreement with him.If you got what the band where about then why didnt you state the facts i have mentioned?You go to a gig to jump about? Not the case since their are alot of different people who attend gigs, dont you realise that everyone is different? Sure i go to see sigur ros and jump about to that heh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluesxman Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 And for anyone wishing to discover/re-discover RATM's back catalogue all the studio albums are currently a fiver in FOPP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonie Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 i purchased battle of LA and renegades after reading this the other day. had both on MP3 and ex-flatmates had them but i fancied completing the collection! /x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsh Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 Then tell me this, who are the winners with zacks animosity towards some of the fanbase with them not being able to understand what ratm are about and then him quiting? Also tell me this, who are the winners if the band stops playing and goes home because of zacks feelings?Are you then calling zack a liar? If you believe in what he does as a person then on the other hand say he is wrong, seems a bit hypocritical to me, it wasnt my words, it was his.I am using the zacks words to explain my argument simply because i am in agreement with him.If you got what the band where about then why didnt you state the facts i have mentioned?You go to a gig to jump about? Not the case since their are alot of different people who attend gigs, dont you realise that everyone is different? Sure i go to see sigur ros and jump about to that hehI've said all I need to say. Stick to your Sigur Ros, junior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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