ATTN: Jammers and other users of house backline

[Flash@TMB]

While we're on the subject... does anyone have any preferences on delay pedals. One of the common reasons that people drag in nasty tranny amps is that they come loaded with FX. If we had a couple of delay pedals onstage then that might prevent a needless hernia or two.

Mark reckons Line 6 pedals, but those words make me vomit, and I'm struggling to come to terms with his recommendation. I just keep thinking about horrible fizzy Line 6 fake distortion *SHUDDER*. I grasp the fact that they (may) make perfectly good FX, but are there any other options?

We're talking dedicated delay pedal here, or even something with multi FX, just so long as there's no fake distortion option. Unless it comes with earplugs and some morphine.

[Alkaline]

While we're on the subject... does anyone have any preferences on delay pedals. One of the common reasons that people drag in nasty tranny amps is that they come loaded with FX. If we had a couple of delay pedals onstage then that might prevent a needless hernia or two.

Mark reckons Line 6 pedals, but those words make me vomit, and I'm struggling to come to terms with his recommendation. I just keep thinking about horrible fizzy Line 6 fake distortion *SHUDDER*. I grasp the fact that they (may) make perfectly good FX, but are there any other options?

We're talking dedicated delay pedal here, or even something with multi FX, just so long as there's no fake distortion option. Unless it comes with earplugs and some morphine.

The Line6 DL4 is a very good delay pedal actually. But i think a Boss-dd3 would be a good idea or an Akai Headrush.

[stuartmaxwell]

*welllll*

the hiwatt is probably a good move, although it looks like one of the more recent hiwatt models, which as you will probably know are not built by the same people that used to make the famous old ones, at one point they were being made at the matamp factory near huddersfield. im sur eit would work fine although....

i think flash will have a raging hard-on when he hears the matamp this weekend, and i can envisage a custom order being placed for a gt 100. i think that the GT 100 would go beautifully with the ENGL. MATAMP simply make some of the best amplifiers out there

as for back up/bass/guitar amp solution...

i noticed that there are always old sound city heads kicking around on the cheap if you needed a back up that can gather dust, you can slam em for 300, throw anything through them and they just keep going. they are a great valve amp, and if serviced, will sound as good as any of the higher priced amps out there.

versatility wise, i would have chosen a different bass driver, as the tech 21 triamp has three programmable tube drives. tis a very good pedal indeed and you can get awesome tone and power, without any comprimise. the mesa pedal is a great pedal, but mesa generally has one kind of sound. but im sure with your pa/desk etc you would have no problem adjusting to what is needed

the line 6 delay pedal is actually *shock* a decent pedal, if slightly confusing for people who will be jumping on stage and jumpuing off again. major prob though is that they are prone to breaking. but you can get some sweet guitar delay out of them if used correctly, and the fx loop is a must

[Longhorn]

I dunno - the line 6 delay is probably too complicated - there is a lot to tweak.

I'd reckon it might be too much for someone new to show up and learn, especially since there isn't much soundcheck.

Also - they just flat out DO NOT work in the FX loop of any amp I've tried (Couple of Marshall, ENGL, Mesa, Matamp, Peavey)

The DD-3 is good - very easy to use, but a bit of a pain to get the timing right.

I'd recommend something with a tap tempo. The T-Rex Replica delay is a great unit, but is pricey (about 200). I'm saving up for one to replace my boss dd-2 which is an old analog pedal, but the lack of tap tempo is killing me on it. I sold my DL4 cos it sounded bad.

You need to get the delay all set up in the loop too - sound best then.

As for your blown Marshall head.... how come you're sending it back to Marshall? Is it a warranty repair? Surely there is a local amp tech who can fix it, or some kind of Marshall approved tech. A blown tranny isn't actually too big a job. Expensive part though.

Running the amp with no load is a big no-no. You've probably got less than a minute before something blows. Even having it on standby won't stop it.

The Powerbrake should work as a dummy load though.

As for FX pedals into clean sounds, Flash is right - sounds awful. ZOOM stuff is the worst. Last time deadenstereo were up another band were plugging in the big Boss ME-6's or whatever and they still sounded shit. Folks don't realise that the boss distortion and overdrive pedals are meant to compliment a certain amount of power amp compression and drive in a cranked valve amp.

Yeah - do you run the speaker cables all the way out to the sound-desk, then back to the stage?

[MTA]

Yes the speaker cables are run to the desk, Using Thick high quality PA speaker cable. there is no loss with this cable.

[Longhorn]

Yes the speaker cables are run to the desk, Using Thick high quality PA speaker cable. there is no loss with this cable.

Cool - I wish I had the guitarists' volume controls in front of me at the venue I mix at. Fucking guitarists! I haven't had to resort to threats of violence yet, but I've been close!

That's why my amp runs at anything between 1W and 28W. Valve power switching is the way forward.

[Hog]

That mesa pedal is probaly the best distortion you can get without using a decent amp distortion, good choice!.

[Flash@TMB]

the hiwatt is probably a good move, although it looks like one of the more recent hiwatt models, which as you will probably know are not built by the same people that used to make the famous old ones, at one point they were being made at the matamp factory near huddersfield. im sur eit would work fine although....

Not sure who assembles them now, but they still use the same point-to-point design with no IC, so should be very reliable and easy to maintain. Interestingly Andy from Musical Vision has very kindly loaned us a head in the interim, and it's a Harry Joyce. Harry Joyce used to be one of the assmeblers at Hiwatt, then left to make his own heads (I think) in 1989, but he died (I think) back in 2001 or 2002. The Harry Joyce heads were also wired point-to-point, and Andy used to bring this one along to the jam back before the refurb. It sounds amazing. I'm just hoping our Hiwatt sounds half as good!

i think flash will have a raging hard-on when he hears the matamp this weekend, and i can envisage a custom order being placed for a gt 100. i think that the GT 100 would go beautifully with the ENGL. MATAMP simply make some of the best amplifiers out there

Yes I'm getting hard just thinking about it LOL. The only regret I have with the ENGL is that we didn't go for a simpler model with less features, as amps with fewer features always seem to sound better. Having said that I guess the versitality is a good thing for a house amp.

as for back up/bass/guitar amp solution...

versatility wise, i would have chosen a different bass driver, as the tech 21 triamp has three programmable tube drives. tis a very good pedal indeed and you can get awesome tone and power, without any comprimise. the mesa pedal is a great pedal, but mesa generally has one kind of sound. but im sure with your pa/desk etc you would have no problem adjusting to what is needed

Oops I didn't explain the Mesa thing properly. The Mesa preamp is to provide drive to the Hiwatt, because the Hiwatt is really just a clean amp. This is for when the Hiwatt is used as a guitar amp. As a backup bass amp we probably wouldn't apply a preamp driver. But you raise and intersting point because a backup bass preamp wouldn;t be a bad thing. Can the Mesa pedal do both? I'll also have a look at this Tech 21 Triamp. Sansamp is also an option but only sounds good on it's own, it sucked the life out of our Ampeg!

[Flash@TMB]

I dunno - the line 6 delay is probably too complicated - there is a lot to tweak.

I'd reckon it might be too much for someone new to show up and learn, especially since there isn't much soundcheck.

Also - they just flat out DO NOT work in the FX loop of any amp I've tried (Couple of Marshall, ENGL, Mesa, Matamp, Peavey)

The DD-3 is good - very easy to use, but a bit of a pain to get the timing right.

I'd recommend something with a tap tempo. The T-Rex Replica delay is a great unit, but is pricey (about 200). I'm saving up for one to replace my boss dd-2 which is an old analog pedal, but the lack of tap tempo is killing me on it. I sold my DL4 cos it sounded bad.

You need to get the delay all set up in the loop too - sound best then.

Thanks that's very good info. We'll take a look at that T-Rex pedal. Does it only do delay or does it do reverb too? Would be nice to get something that can handle both.

As for your blown Marshall head.... how come you're sending it back to Marshall? Is it a warranty repair? Surely there is a local amp tech who can fix it, or some kind of Marshall approved tech. A blown tranny isn't actually too big a job. Expensive part though.

Running the amp with no load is a big no-no. You've probably got less than a minute before something blows. Even having it on standby won't stop it.

The Powerbrake should work as a dummy load though.

It was the lead out of the amp that was disconnected, so pre-Powerbrake Guess this is the cause then.

Mark took the head to R&B and it was them that suggested sending it off. We should probably have gotten Andy to check it out first. He's also telling me that they plan to get a valve bias kit in-house soon, so for future failures Musical Vision will probably be our first port of call.

[Longhorn]

The T-Rex only has one sound at a time. You can set it for reverb if you put the time down low enough but you can't have both without twisting some knobs

I've always found reverb to be a waste of time for live playing, since generally you are in a large room anyway. Just get Mark to stick some on at the desk if needs be.

Matamp actually have the license to make Harry Joyce heads - they are doing their own versions of them now I think. All hand made and so on. You could get custom "Moorings Bar" ones with a pirate on them.

My amp ha a bull's head on the front, and when I step on the overdrive it's eyes light up red! ha ha. I need to look into a wee smoke machine for the nostrils.

The thing I've found with house amps is that ones with a one button footswitch are best. People get too confused, and keep stepping on the channel 1 switch to try and turn the distortion on. I lent a Marshall with a 3 button switch to a girl at a gig and she just kept stepping on all the wrong switches - it was feeding back and howling and she started crying.

Interesting (and slightly related) note - in Saudi Arabia women aren't allowed to drive cars.

But it would be very controversial to suggest a link there, wouldn't it?

[MTA]

Well the Marshall is back, I picking it up tomorrow, soon to be 3 amps to play with

[Flash@TMB]

Well the Marshall is back, I picking it up tomorrow, soon to be 3 amps to play with

Hah hah Mark... but really that's not funny. Have you ben smoking something?

Either that or I've just awoken from a 2 year coma? Whose the Prime Minister now? It better not be Phillip Schofiled

[Old Gold]

I wouldn't provide a delay pedal at all, as it will encourage fuck ups.

Surely the majority of guitarists that really need a delay pedal will have one in their bag. Nothing worse for the rest of the band than someone buggering about with a brand new effect (s)he's never laid in the middle of set. It's up there with a drummer who's let loose on a double bass pedal with no prior experience.

[jon]

So, to clarify, is the Marshall fixed? I won't bring my JCM900 if it is.

If The Moorings was a lady, I'd text it drunkenly on a Friday night when my girlfriend wasn't looking.

x

[MTA]

So, to clarify, is the Marshall fixed? I won't bring my JCM900 if it is.

If The Moorings was a lady, I'd text it drunkenly on a Friday night when my girlfriend wasn't looking.

x

Yes it is fixed, I will have it in the morning,

[jon]

Marvellous! Is the footswitch ok, or is it worth bringing one?

[Flash@TMB]

Marvellous! Is the footswitch ok, or is it worth bringing one?

We have a working footswitch.

[PaulDW]

The only thing I would say is that the newest range in Line 6 Amps such as the Flextone III or Vetta II are not in the same bracket as the PODS and previous versions. I have played alongside pros here and in the States that use a flextone 3... With a very cool full sounding tone indeed.

I am not saying that a full valve amp doesn't sound better, because of course they do, (the Engl at the Moorings is probably one of the best sounding heads Ive ever played) but the new Line 6 gear is easy for some guitarists to set up for all their songs patch wise, and somewhat more affordable an option too... And doesn't deserve the same Line 6 stigma as previous models and amps IMO.

I have the DL4 and it is an excellent pedal now that I have had months to sit and work out how to get the best from it... A DD-3 or DD-6 I believe would be a better option in terms of being flexible and easy to use for jammers and first time users as part of a gig set up.

[HairyScaryMark]

I own a Line 6 DL4. No longer use it but I think it would be worth concidering for the moorings bar, providing the users aren't idiots (or just not technically minded people, in which case they probably shouldn't be using delay pedals at all).

The main thing against it would be the users ability to understand how to use it. There is 2 knobs which do differnet things depending on the delay type. There is bit of card (or maybe a sticker, i can't remember) that comes with it which explains what each of them do).

The plus sides are. You can programme up to 3 delay types at once recallable from 3 footswitched and there is a 4th pernamnet 'tap delay' footswitch.

It also has a 28 second loop function. If someone goes onto this function by mistake, it would confused them, bigtime.

It also digtally clips if the input level is too great and the delay is switched on (quite likely to happen if someone puts a distortion pedal infront of it). It most likely wouldn't be suited for an effects loop as the percentage of the signal going back into an effects loop often isn't 100%

It also has 'true' bypass and will allow audio signals to pass through it, reguardless of whether or not it is switched on.

The large range of delay types is an advantage providing the user understands how to use them.

...........

On another note: distortion pedal going into a valve amp on the clean setting is the tone of choice for many rock guitar players including Jimi Hendrix and Zakk Wylde.

[Flash@TMB]

the HiWatt and Mesa are here, and they both sound amazing

[Alkaline]

the HiWatt and Mesa are here, and they both sound amazing

How much did you pay for the Mesa and where did u get it from?

[Flash@TMB]

How much did you pay for the Mesa and where did u get it from?

The Mesa was S/H, new ones are only available special order now, and given that it's made out of steel and uses valves S/H wasn't a big issue. Not willing to go into exact prices but it wasn't cheap.

The Hiwatt is new though, and by God the build quality is good, possibly even surpasses that of the Engl. Suspect it's made at the Matamp factory, had a big 'Made in England' Union Jack label hanging off it. Very heavy amp for it's physical size. Abolsutely delighted with it.

[HairyScaryMark]

If I play The Moorings Bar (which I hope I do within the next few months or so). I might use the HiWatt + mesa pedal combination, by choice over the other amps. The other amps are good but this sounds more up my ally way. Never played one though. Have a fairly extensive range of tones available from the house backline now. Don't know of any other venues (big or small) offering gear of this quality available free of charge. Quite exceptional.

Concidering I now only play guitar in about 1/2 of my bands songs it probably wouldn't be worth me bringing my own amp setup if I can use one of these bad boys. I probably am going to end up bringing along one or two keyboards + a laptop anyway which is more carrying than I would like. Also preferably have a spair laptop to avoid big time embaressment if it fails.

Does the HiWatt have built in Reverb. Is it a monster like I assume it would be on the ENGL or is it a bit more subtle like on Marshall?

[HateEvent]

The ENGL Powerball is one of the best pieces of equipment to happen to musicians ever ever

I might have to give the V-Twin a shot at some point though

[Flash@TMB]

Does the HiWatt have built in Reverb. Is it a monster like I assume it would be on the ENGL or is it a bit more subtle like on Marshall?

The Hiwatt has no built in FX at all, not even distortion! It's more like a HiFi separates type approach. What you get is incredible warm tone and the associated valve harmonics, but nothing else. The reason it can deliver this tone is lack of electronics (which suck tone out). There's no circuit board for instance. Everything is point to point wired. All you get is:

Normal volume.

Brilliant volume.

Master Volume.

Bass.

Mid.

Treble.

Hence why we have it hooked up to the Mesa pedal. So if you need reverb then you'd have to bring your own, or have it added from the desk.