Guest bluesxman Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 I love the gripes on here about Moshulu as a gig venue. People are moaning about the t-shirts that the barstaff are wearing, the pillars that support the roof, the safety barriers that are there for a reason intrinsically hidden in their name and the fact that they can't get a decent view of the band if it's busy. If more people were moaning about the barstaff then I'd maybe see that being more realistic and if people can suggest any way of getting past the 14+ gig restriction to an 18+ clubnight without ushering everyone out to Bassment/another pub/home to the parents or wherever then I'd be intrigued to hear that as well.Forgive me if I'm wrong but seeing as I'm not exactly an overly-tall guy are people just really late getting there or too polite to try and move if they can't see the stage or something? I've never had a problem getting a spot with at least a view whether the gig's sold out or otherwise so what's people's problem with seeing the stage? Sheer laziness or something I'm not picking up on?Too polite to shove in front of someone else, so possibly spoiling their view? Trying to avoid the idiots jumping about/spilling drink everywhere towards the front? The only places guaranteed to give a good view in Moshulu are in front of the stage and on some, not all, of the steps on the right facing the stage. Unless you have a piss bag or don't drink all night, trying to maintain a spot at either from early doors until the end is nigh on impossible unless you want to try and reclaim your spot which let's face it is tricky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jalepeano death Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 Whatever you drink in there, i want some. Oh, and the Aerosmith t-shirt wearing bar staff need to think what gig they're at when they put on their clothes. Are you a Nazi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psydoll Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 Too polite to shove in front of someone else, so possibly spoiling their view? Trying to avoid the idiots jumping about/spilling drink everywhere towards the front? The only places guaranteed to give a good view in Moshulu are in front of the stage and on some, not all, of the steps on the right facing the stage. Unless you have a piss bag or don't drink all night, trying to maintain a spot at either from early doors until the end is nigh on impossible unless you want to try and reclaim your spot which let's face it is tricky.No one's asking anyone to shove in front of people to get a better view or to head down the front. I've seen perfectly well from just behind the sound desk, at the back of the dancefloor, at the front, on the steps. I just refuse to believe if you're that bothered about it you won't just move round the venue until you can see from somewhere ?( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afro Droid Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 I love the gripes on here about Moshulu as a gig venue. People are moaning about the t-shirts that the barstaff are wearing, the pillars that support the roof, the safety barriers that are there for a reason intrinsically hidden in their name and the fact that they can't get a decent view of the band if it's busy.Moon on a stick...I did think that complaining about a load-bearing roof was a bit much, would you rather not have any of the gigs (that wouldn't have come to Aberdeen otherwise) because the venue isn't 100% perfect?I voted for the Moorings, because I go there all the time for drink and gigs, I hardly ever go to the Tunnels unless we're playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluesxman Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 No one's asking anyone to shove in front of people to get a better view or to head down the front. I've seen perfectly well from just behind the sound desk, at the back of the dancefloor, at the front, on the steps. I just refuse to believe if you're that bothered about it you won't just move round the venue until you can see from somewhere ?(Hey, if you are happy with the place great, I just expressed my view which seems to be shared with other folk, your status as a house DJ possibly lends you more bias. I'm not going to take some militant stance against going to gigs there, I just find it less user friendly than other venues and so have a natural preference for them.My last experience was at CSS, half the stairs were out of bounds unless you fancied playing Russian Roulette with the toilet water from above, the only vantage point on that side meant most of the stage being obscured, I moved over the other side and had to deal with idiots whose idea of dancing seemed to involve spinning around across a 3 metre radius, I then moved right to the back of the dance floor to find that I could only see a line of heads due to the low stage/short Brazilians combo. There did seem to be a large proportion of dickheads there that night, my favourite moment witnessed was one of the aforementioned idiot dancers who left a full pint of lager in the middle of the dance floor then got really annoyed at some guy returning from the toilet who kicked it over.Although the Lemon Tree shares the pillar problem that obviously can't be changed, the stage seems to offer a better view no matter where you have to stand. The Tunnels also seems better for a view despite having a relatively low stage, is Moshulu's stage unusually low? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psydoll Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 Hey, if you are happy with the place great, I just expressed my view which seems to be shared with other folk, your status as a house DJ possibly lends you more bias. I'm not going to take some militant stance against going to gigs there, I just find it less user friendly than other venues and so have a natural preference for them.My last experience was at CSS, half the stairs were out of bounds unless you fancied playing Russian Roulette with the toilet water from above, the only vantage point on that side meant most of the stage being obscured, I moved over the other side and had to deal with idiots whose idea of dancing seemed to involve spinning around across a 3 metre radius, I then moved right to the back of the dance floor to find that I could only see a line of heads due to the low stage/short Brazilians combo. There did seem to be a large proportion of dickheads there that night, my favourite moment witnessed was one of the aforementioned idiot dancers who left a full pint of lager in the middle of the dance floor then got really annoyed at some guy returning from the toilet who kicked it over.Although the Lemon Tree shares the pillar problem that obviously can't be changed, the stage seems to offer a better view no matter where you have to stand. The Tunnels also seems better for a view despite having a relatively low stage, is Moshulu's stage unusually low?I don't think it's necessarily bias, I seem to recall having a similar defense of Lemon Tree in another thread ages ago when people were voicing the same sort of gripes. I guess it just seems like people moan about not getting decent acts and then moan about seemingly everything they can at the venues whenever someone they do think is decent gets booked and that makes me grumpy Is there a venue in Aberdeen that can have a sellout gig and not have any 'customers being able to see' issues? Music Hall?[i'll agree with you on the numpty proportion of the crowd at CSS also] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 Is there a venue in Aberdeen that can have a sellout gig and not have any 'customers being able to see' issues? Music Hall?Nah, the music hall's got a shit view from the bar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluesxman Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 I don't think it's necessarily bias, I seem to recall having a similar defense of Lemon Tree in another thread ages ago when people were voicing the same sort of gripes. I guess it just seems like people moan about not getting decent acts and then moan about seemingly everything they can at the venues whenever someone they do think is decent gets booked and that makes me grumpy Is there a venue in Aberdeen that can have a sellout gig and not have any 'customers being able to see' issues? Music Hall?[i'll agree with you on the numpty proportion of the crowd at CSS also]Music Hall and AECC are probably the main 2, but even those are both relative to height - my girlfriend is barely over 5 foot and so is resigned to a lifetime of seeing the back of someone's head at gigs no matter what venue. Not much that can be done about that though!Choice of venue doesn't have any bearing on my decision to attend gigs at all, if I want to see a band I'm there and bar staff stuff doesn't really come into it for me, that usually comes down to number of bar staff vs. crowd numbers and can't say I've ever had issues at any venue where I thought the bar staff were not serving in some kind of logical manner.I've never been to The Moorings to see a gig but we are playing there in the New Year so I look forward to watching the other bands and see what it's like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash@TMB Posted December 20, 2006 Report Share Posted December 20, 2006 I love this thread because it's the closest one to my heart It is REALLY difficult to find a bulding/room that is well suited to being a venue. For starters you really want something approximating a cuboid shape, with the long walls curved into the ceiling. Searching on Google will cough up a list of the 'golden dimensions for audio' - the perfect room. The ceiling in the perfect room is higher than a regular room. Virtually nobody accidentally builds rooms to this spec, unless they are building an auditorium from scratch. The floor should be flat. Excuse me......I'm typing this on a laptop with 3KGs of parrot on my left shoulder, it feels like my neck is going to snap, anyway...Nothing should obstruct the view of the stage. The stage itself is another reason why you need a high ceiling, so that the performers can be elevated to head height. The stage is not counted as part of the room, so the perfect venue needs to be the length of golden room PLUS stage depth. That's quite long LOL! It's virtually impossible to achieve an unobstructed view with a supporting ceiling unless someone factored a shitload of structural steel into the building... unlikely unless it was originally intended to be a venue.Capacity is a double edged sword. Less than 200 it's too suashed but more than 600 and some people are reduced to watching them on a screen.There are also some 'enviromental' issues. The place needs to be soundproofed otherwise it'll get closed down. Anywhere with windows is a virtual no-no.Wandering around town it's nearly impossible to find anywhere that meets this spec. The Forum comes closest, the layout inside there is ideal because you have the bar running along the back of the room and easy access to the bogs. So if this vote was on the room itself then The Forum would have objectively taken my vote.But that's only a small part of it. Some of the most prolific venues are considered to be among the best in the world, despite being badly flawed in terms of their rooms: CBGB's & King Tuts being just 2 examples. So it's not stricly necessary to have the room perfect in order to build a good venue.*DIDN'T I TYPE THIS SAME POST LAST YEAR?*IME only people who are practised listeners, such as musicians and sound engineers, will conciously be aware of the sound quality... unless it is VERY bad. Which is strange because you'd think this would be the most important thing. The performers are more likely to base judgement on the stage sound, than the sound out front. If an average punter thinks the sound is shite then it must be truely awful heh heh.Visibilty should be VERY important, yet there are some highly rated venues where large sections of the audience cannot see the band AT ALL (yet still count those areas towards their advertised capacity LOL).Then there's the rest of the stuff like lighting, standard of bands playing there, toilets, drinks, access to the bar, prices, plastic glasses or glass glasses, seating, blah, blah, blah. And different people will place different emphasis on the importance of these. The bar staffs t-shirts even.In Aberdeen we are currently spoiled for choice of high quality venues. I like to think we helped contribute towards raising the standard. Competition IS healthy. Less than 5 years ago there were just three gigging venues in this town with an installed rig - The Lemon Tree, Kef, and The Malt Mill. I can remember thinking, at the time, that Kef was amazing. Drakes, Drummonds, and The Moorings all installed PA pretty much the same week in 2002. Since then we've had Moshulu, The Tunnels, Cafe Musa, and others. And the number of places hosting gigs has been hugely expanded: http://www.aberdeen-music.com/index.php?page=venuedirTake it from me - having spent the past 5 years attempting to build my dream venue, under the constraints of my site and budget... it's REALLY not easy!!!!!!!!!!!!! Should have stuck to motorbikes LOL.It would be possible to construct an objective test and scoring system, but only an anal retentive would attempt to do so, and of course that's missing the point - this is about voting. Few people will vote even semi-objectively. Most people voting here are musicians, and will naturally tend to vote for wherever they play most often... because that will (obviously) be their favourite venue... and I don't mean that in a bad way. Everyone voting at the gigs will be at Fudge gigs, so The Moorings will pick up a totally disproportionate chunk of the vote heh heh... despite the only doing 1 gig week, and having a "stage like a box" etc.But - HEY - it's all just a bit of fun!There will also be people out there who prefer am L-shaped venue with a capacity of 45 and no PA where the singer shouts down a megaphone, where the glasses are made of polystyrene, the bar staff wear Jason Donovan t-shirts, and it's £10 to get in. But those cunts are just attention seekers so ignore them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Posted December 20, 2006 Report Share Posted December 20, 2006 The only regular Aerosmith T-shirt wearing member of staff at Moshulu will love this. I'm going to let you into a little secret. Shhh....When there are over 600 people in one room, 5/6 people on the bar, and 4 kegs run out at once, the fruit juices need refilled, there is a lack of glasses because everyone is just throwing theirs on the dancefloor, the bar is covered in spilled drinks because someone has no concept of 'grip' and needs cleaned, we've ran out of 20p coins in the til, have to ID people who are 15 but stupid enough to ask for a drink, then it might just take a little bit longer to be served. But the real secret here, and this one might surprise alot of people.... If you are clearly being an arse about having to wait, or just shout your order while we're serving someone else, wave money at us, whistle etc., it's going to take you a hell of a lot longer before anyone serves you. Be patient: we're having a much worse time than you are.If you need a drink so badly that you'll stand for 20 minutes and wait to be served, you're missing the gig anyway, so just go down and have a drink in the Bassment and come back up.Anyway, this is about Best Venue, not 'Best Barstaff', so I'll shut up and lodge my vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodyRATM Posted December 20, 2006 Report Share Posted December 20, 2006 i vote the moorings. and ive only ever played there once so far.ampeg + powerball = my guitar/bass heaven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougfast Posted December 20, 2006 Report Share Posted December 20, 2006 i hate gigs with saftey barriers. it spoils all the fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psydoll Posted December 20, 2006 Report Share Posted December 20, 2006 The only regular Aerosmith T-shirt wearing member of staff at Moshulu will love this.Lisa or G?Come to think of it I've never seen them both wearing them at the same time. Maybe they share one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fli$ Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 The only regular Aerosmith T-shirt wearing member of staff at Moshulu will love this. I'm going to let you into a little secret. Shhh....When there are over 600 people in one room, 5/6 people on the bar, and 4 kegs run out at once, the fruit juices need refilled, there is a lack of glasses because everyone is just throwing theirs on the dancefloor, the bar is covered in spilled drinks because someone has no concept of 'grip' and needs cleaned, we've ran out of 20p coins in the til, have to ID people who are 15 but stupid enough to ask for a drink, then it might just take a little bit longer to be served. But the real secret here, and this one might surprise alot of people.... If you are clearly being an arse about having to wait, or just shout your order while we're serving someone else, wave money at us, whistle etc., it's going to take you a hell of a lot longer before anyone serves you. Be patient: we're having a much worse time than you are.vote.Amen to that. I just don't understand though how the clothing of barstaff can ruin a gig for people. Or make it better for people. Christ, complaining about an Aerosmith t-shirt? Some people just like to have something to bitch about - for all the things that are and might be wrong with Moshulu, the t-shirts the staff wear are at the bottom of the barrel. And surely watching the bands you have paid money to see and enjoying the music is far more important than getting a jack and coke? If you don't want to wait 20 minutes for a drink, don't wait 20 minutes for a drink - nobody is forcing you to. At the end of the day if you don't buy alcohol it is the venue that is suffering and they themselves will give the staff shit for poor service. As Stuart said, we don't need you doing it for them. Pissing the bar staff off wont get you served any quicker. We'll most likely tell you to fuck off and ignore you until you go away! Lisa or G?Come to think of it I've never seen them both wearing them at the same time. Maybe they share one.hm, maybe their hatred for one another is just an act and they actually have sleepovers and clothes swaps!?This has been completely off topic.....apologies. And apologies for the rant. Anyway. I quite like the moorings, it has an awesome atmosphere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psydoll Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 This has been completely off topic.....apologies. And apologies for the rant. Anyway. I quite like the moorings, it has an awesome atmosphere.I'm pretty much a fan of all over the venues bar the mysterious 'other' above. I've got very fond memories of gigs at all of them over the years. Like Flash says we're kinda spoiled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fli$ Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 I'm pretty much a fan of all over the venues bar the mysterious 'other' above. I've got very fond memories of gigs at all of them over the years. Like Flash says we're kinda spoiled. That's a good point actually! I've had a really fun night at each of them. I haven't voted yet though, still can't decide on a favourite! x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 Lisa or G?Come to think of it I've never seen them both wearing them at the same time. Maybe they share one.I meant Lisa. It's only recently that I have memories of G wearing anything that isn't a Jack Daniels T-Shirt. I had an episode when he wore a red T-Shirt and blue jeans. My brain couldn't cope with Ian in red. I'm going to sing that to him, to the tune of the Chris De Burgh classic.Actually, I'm sure TurboMop has an Aerosmith top also.On topic, Moshulu would have my vote. Part bias, as I've had to be at almost every gig there this year. But mainly based on the Hot Chip gig. That was beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyScaryMark Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 For meDrummonds - usually fun, sound quality isn't very good and once was so loud that I could hear it perfectly while waiting for a bus, outside McDonalds in Union Street. Bands often complain about not being able to hear themselves. Probably sometimes the fault of the band for failing to do soundchecks properly but not always.The Lemon Tree - quite good but lacks the same level of atmosphere as elsewhere. PA is quite good but the quality of the sound engineer is highly variable.The Moorings Bar - unbeatabley sound quality, great house backline, really good atmosphere, reasonably priced drinks with a huge selection, always good banter. Gets my vote on this pol. Have to convince some friends to start going there more regularly (so I can go also).Moshulu - more similar to the lemontree in the setup of the gigs. Sound quality varies depending on the system used and the sound engineer, atmosphere can be really good or not that good depending on the crowd and the band. Drinks are well priced. Probably overall the best venue of it's size in Aberdeen for rock gigs, at least.The Tunnels - fairly bad sound which is always far too loud. Partially the fault of the bands for having their backline too loud, partially the fault of the person who purchased the mackie PA, partilaly the fault of the sound engineer (depending on which one it is as not all are bad). Drinks are also more expensive than I would like. I do however like them for putting on the shere number and range of gigs that they do.OtherThe Forum - really good if you can fill that place, too big for local bands but if you can get 1000 people or so it would be amazing (or less if the gig is suitable for sitting round tables). House PA is stupidly big and not brilliant. Better buying a higher quality and smaller system for the same money. Venue is quite well laid out for big gigs anyway.Kef - never been to a 'proper' gig there. only the jazz on Thursday night which it is ideal for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MDP Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 The Tunnels - , partilaly the fault of the sound engineer (depending on which one it is as not all are bad). jenni is the only permanant sound engineer in the tunnels.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyScaryMark Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 I've only been to the Tunnels twice. The first time I went there was a woman on sound (shortly after it opened) and it was awful. She maybe has improved since then.I feel qualified to comment on sound quality. I own a home recording studio. I have about 4 years of live sound engineering experience in a church through a turbosound live PA. I am also a career musician.Poor sound quality is capable of ruining gigs but generally doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jalepeano death Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 . Sound quality varies depending on the system used and the sound engineer.If you add " and the band " that would be perfectly true.The tunnels does struggle with that rig, however it is still miles better than most similiarly sized venues elsewhere.I wish punters cared more about sound but there are loads of other things that make a venue greatFor some people as long as they get to throw their pints arround, fuck about on the stage and sing football songs at the band they seem to be happy. Oh, and if the Bar staff are wearing nice tees that are all coordinated in case they were to crash into a horrible fashion tradgedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartmaxwell Posted December 22, 2006 Report Share Posted December 22, 2006 the tunnels sound has been awesome at times, more likely when the bands bring their own engineers with them and fine tune and tweak at soundcheck. it takes time, but with a room like that it is essential!.when there are local gigs on they sound pap because of many reasons- bands think "loud" means turn the volume up really high (particularly bad if they own pish gear). if you have any of your eqs at 10 you *may* run into problems- a lot of musicians round here do not take the time out to hone their live sound + tones- local bands (even when living 5 mins away) still manage to turn up late and have no soundcheck, or do turn up on time but get no soundcheck due to someone somewhere cocking up/setting up and breaking downand as a result it is a mammoth task to get a decent eq through a pa in a room shaped like that, and with a stage like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
french_disko Posted December 22, 2006 Report Share Posted December 22, 2006 Are you a Nazi?yeah, I am - because obviously making a tongue in cheek comment about coporate American rawk band t-shirts is comparable to the annexing of Poland, killing gypsies and homosexuals, occupying France and killing 7 million Jews in gas chambers.YES, THEY'RE EXACTLY THE SAME FUCKING THING. Get a sense of perspective you ignorant, stupid little man.Thanks to the other comments from the Moshulu bar staff / DJs / hangers-on - i'm glad you've taken you're customers comments to hearts and are acting on their suggestions / gripes*. * Im being sarcastic again here in case anyone misses the signposting yet again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinzHines Posted December 22, 2006 Report Share Posted December 22, 2006 jesus, now i think about it....you ARE a nazi.LOLZER ROFLLLFLSS¬!!!!14LYF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fli$ Posted December 22, 2006 Report Share Posted December 22, 2006 Thanks to the other comments from the Moshulu bar staff / DJs / hangers-on - i'm glad you've taken you're customers comments to hearts and are acting on their suggestions / gripes*. * Im being sarcastic again here in case anyone misses the signposting yet again.You are welcome. And don't worry, the next time I am getting dressed before work I will think about you and what you will like me to wear. Then I will phone everyone else just to make sure they are also complying and that we all co-ordinate. Heaven forbid we all wear a t-shirt of a band that a lot of people like. So damn corporate. I'll even make sure the DJ's and "hangers on" don't wear t-shirts that may offend you. Don't want to spoil your night or anything.**Also being sarcastic in case anyone missed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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