please restore my faith

[Moshulu Rob]

being unshakeably tight as a nun. could do it with eyes shut. strings breaking yet still pulling it off admirably minus dodgy bits etc etc

having a great sound for what they are doing (generally having great gear and knowing how to use it in different types of venue. i.e. pa/non pa/crap pa, big venue/small venue, high roofs etc etc) a great example of this are EYE from dundee, in all the times i have enjoyed them in different venues, i have never been able to fault their sound.

ability, being able to play without bum notes, mutes, dropped beats, off vocals etc etc goes without saying really. macrocosmica were a great example of this

tunes. having the tunes with the character/charisma to win people over/get them into the genre. i.e. punter saying "i hate post rcok/instrumental music, but xxxx were actually fucking excellent at it and i actually enjoyed that"

maybe its being picky having seen a lot of bands/acts in recent years/maybe its being a cynical bastard/maybe im simply bored of the aberdeen music scene/maybe i know absolutely fuck all etc etc

i never really used to look it like that until i started going/seeing to gigs in other cities and im sure there are lots of other things too, but surely this gets the gist of where i am coming from??!?

I've just watched the Edgar Prais do all this 4 nights running, as main support, playing sold out 400 capacity venues all around england.

I've seen them turn 400 people from standing chatting to their mates to watching intently and clapping and whistling after each song. I've seen them get mobbed by people after the show, and I've seen a Liverpudlian turn to his mate and say 'This isn't my kinda thing, but they're fucking good'

They may well not be your 'thing' Maxi, but there is no denying they are an awesome band, neither are they the only band in Aberdeen.

But then, saying that doesn't start a very good flame war does it?

[Neil]

It aint what you got, it's how you use it.

Indeed. A good workman never blames his tools.

[RF Scott]

I would say it because it's true.

I don't understand the next bit.

He's referring to the sound mix, rather than quality. Slip up of words maybe, but still pretty obvious what he is referring to.

Playing in different time signatures and using dynamics have nothing to do with being tight. Being tight is about playing as a cohesive unit. AC/DC are generally considered tight, no "weird" time signatures or subtle dynamics there.

A lot of mathcore/whatever bands rely on being tight, I think its a valid reference. Again, pretty obvious he was only using an example.

[soundian]

He's referring to the sound mix, rather than quality. Slip up of words maybe, but still pretty obvious what he is referring to.

Mixing a band who don't have their sounds sorted is a bit like trying to put multiple square pegs into multiple round holes. You can't separate mixing from source sound.

A lot of mathcore/whatever bands rely on being tight, I think its a valid reference. Again, pretty obvious he was only using an example.

I'll give you that one, although mentioning the time signatures and dynamics was what threw me.

[Jim Stax]

I've just watched the Edgar Prais do all this 4 nights running, as main support, playing sold out 400 capacity venues all around england.

I've seen them turn 400 people from standing chatting to their mates to watching intently and clapping and whistling after each song. I've seen them get mobbed by people after the show, and I've seen a Liverpudlian turn to his mate and say 'This isn't my kinda thing, but they're fucking good'

They may well not be your 'thing' Maxi, but there is no denying they are an awesome band, neither are they the only band in Aberdeen.

But then, saying that doesn't start a very good flame war does it?

Says it al really...

Are we not talking 'professionalim' on stage and as a band. Musical genre, personal taste or songs don't come into it...

[Guest bluesxman]

I would say it because it's true.

I don't understand the next bit.

Well there's been all this talk about bands not knowing how they want to sound because they are so useless, not ready, technically inept, blah blah blah. If a band gets a 10 minute soundcheck, they are pretty much testing the general sound level out front of each instrument, quick run through of half a song, after which if you're lucky the onstage sound may be adjusted well enough to know what is happening during any one song, then it's that's all we have time for. No time for any of the band to go offstage and judge how things sound from the bands point of view. So then joe public may turn up and decide the bass isn't loud enough etc and go off spouting their criticisms left right and centre based on something the band had little control over.

If a 3 piece touring band takes 1.5 hours to soundcheck to their satisfaction how are you supposed to win in 10 minutes? The sound engineer is not a problem with what they do, and i'm not trying to lay any criticism at any sound engineer at all, what i'm saying is that they can't possibly know how every local band should sound and the band are not necessarily in control of how things end up.

Perhaps if touring bands were given a time limit on their soundcheck things would be better but of course that will never happen.

[RF Scott]

Mixing a band who don't have their sounds sorted is a bit like trying to put multiple square pegs into multiple round holes. You can't separate mixing from source sound.

It can be a big problem if your band isn't a standard line up (in terms of instrumentation). I've lost track of the amount of times where we've told the sound engineer exactly what should be loud/quiet and in which parts of the set, only for them to turn down anything that isn't a guitar. Surely that is a problem with mixing rather than source sound?

[Jim Stax]

Well there's been all this talk about bands not knowing how they want to sound because they are so useless, not ready, technically inept, blah blah blah. If a band gets a 10 minute soundcheck, they are pretty much testing the general sound level out front of each instrument, quick run through of half a song, after which if you're lucky the onstage sound may be adjusted well enough to know what is happening during any one song, then it's that's all we have time for. No time for any of the band to go offstage and judge how things sound from the bands point of view. So then joe public may turn up and decide the bass isn't loud enough etc and go off spouting their criticisms left right and centre based on something the band had little control over.

If a 3 piece touring band takes 1.5 hours to soundcheck to their satisfaction how are you supposed to win in 10 minutes? The sound engineer is not a problem with what they do, and i'm not trying to lay any criticism at any sound engineer at all, what i'm saying is that they can't possibly know how every local band should sound and the band are not necessarily in control of how things end up.

Perhaps if touring bands were given a time limit on their soundcheck things would be better but of course that will never happen.

Chances are a touring act will have a contract stipulating how long they get for a soundcheck. Local (any part of the country) bands are never high in the pecking order unfortunately and this is all the more reason to have your sound fine tuned. A 10min soundcheck is also part of the apprenticeship. I'm sure sound engineers are happy to have someone, a mate of the band that knows, say up down left or right for the sound of the band on stage. Just don't start telling an engineer his job though, dangerous...

[Guest MKII]

Lighten up folks and enjoy some Sister Rosetta Tharpe!

[Jim Stax]

Lighten up folks and enjoy some Sister Rosetta Tharpe!

Shocking sound and she really should be rehearsing more before playing live...

[Andy Mulhern]

I think we honestly have it fairly lucky up here, there arent many venues who dont try and promote their venues and most owners (particularly eric at drummonds and tunnels) are always very fair when it comes to payment for gigs.

Ahh yes Milne, payment for gigs? Good point. WHERE THE FUCK IS OUR MONEY FROM JULY17TH GIG?

[FatHand]

A good band should be able to control their own dynamics - dynamics are a good thing in music. It can give a song a personality. But that is not the sound engineers job. If you know one instrument is supposed to be louder at one point than the others, then you hold back and let the main instrument lead - very simple. Know your own songs.

[stuartmaxwell]

I've just watched the Edgar Prais do all this 4 nights running, as main support, playing sold out 400 capacity venues all around england.

I've seen them turn 400 people from standing chatting to their mates to watching intently and clapping and whistling after each song. I've seen them get mobbed by people after the show, and I've seen a Liverpudlian turn to his mate and say 'This isn't my kinda thing, but they're fucking good'

They may well not be your 'thing' Maxi, but there is no denying they are an awesome band, neither are they the only band in Aberdeen.

But then, saying that doesn't start a very good flame war does it?

i did mention the edgar prais earlier if you read back, and its cool that they are out playing sold out tours etc they are a good band (and i think they will become an awesome band in a year or so) but they arent in the same calibre the band i have mentioned (yet!).

for me, bands dont become awesome in a year or so, they need a good few years of grafting in lot of cases. it shows in every aspect of the performance. if you were to compare your chums recent tour performances against that of, say, a years time. chances are you would probably be along the lines of "fucking hell, no contest!". no offence rob, but you view it as your friends band, therefore i think others opinions are possibly/possibly not more valid. we all do it, and i would be a liar if i was to imply that it aint something i do the odd time (take a worm perhaps??). i do realise that this may invalidate a lot of the things i have said in this thread, but im sure you can see past that.

as said before, it is merely an opinion. we are all entitled to one and we are all entitled to think that they are nonsense etc

this thread wasnt started as a flaming war, i simply started it to find out if anybody has stuff in the pipeline, in the hope that people of recent have been inspired by all of the good stuff that has been coming to aberdeen accross the genre spectrum whether i be indie, pop, electronica, metal etc etc. the thread has fired off on a tangent, but i think it has been an interesting discussion and perhaps provides an insight into the stuff that many bands are blind to. with a bit of luck people may take on board some of the things that people have discussed on this thread and put it to good use in the practice room/stage/music shop/internet etc

[Jim Stax]

i did mention the edgar prais earlier if you read back, and its cool that they are out playing sold out tours etc they are a good band (and i think they will become an awesome band in a year or so) but they arent in the same calibre the band i have mentioned (yet!).

for me, bands dont become awesome in a year or so, they need a good few years of grafting in lot of cases. it shows in every aspect of the performance. if you were to compare your chums recent tour performances against that of, say, a years time. chances are you would probably be along the lines of "fucking hell, no contest!". no offence rob, but you view it as your friends band, therefore i think others opinions are possibly/possibly not more valid. we all do it, and i would be a liar if i was to imply that it aint something i do the odd time (take a worm perhaps??). i do realise that this may invalidate a lot of the things i have said in this thread, but im sure you can see past that.

as said before, it is merely an opinion. we are all entitled to one and we are all entitled to think that they are nonsense etc

this thread wasnt started as a flaming war, i simply started it to find out if anybody has stuff in the pipeline, in the hope that people of recent have been inspired by all of the good stuff that has been coming to aberdeen accross the genre spectrum whether i be indie, pop, electronica, metal etc etc. the thread has fired off on a tangent, but i think it has been an interesting discussion and perhaps provides an insight into the stuff that many bands are blind to. with a bit of luck people may take on board some of the things that people have discussed on this thread and put it to good use in the practice room/stage/music shop/internet etc

Who wrote this for you Maxi?!

[Guest Mr Blastcap]

Who wrote this for you Maxi?!

his publicist.

[Dan G]

for me, bands dont become awesome in a year or so, they need a good few years of grafting in lot of cases.

this thread wasnt started as a flaming war, i simply started it to find out if anybody has stuff in the pipeline,

If bands take year or so to become good... then how can "having something in the pipeline" mean that they are gonna be any good at all!? Seeing that 'pipeline' stage to being brilliant would take a good length of time.

Surely your above quotes contradict themselves slightly, in the sense that if a band were on their way to becoming YOUR opinion/standard of 'good' anytime soon... then you would have probably already heard of them, as they would have had a year or so of hard grafting put in...

Unless of course the pipeline is two years long, but god knows what can happen to a band in that length of time.

[Jim Stax]

Whaaaa...

I am very confused now! I also feel that Maxi has stated his discussion topic rather well in his last post...

I'm off to listen to Sidca, drink 4 cans of Irn Bru 32 and then pop some Kalms for a laff

[Alkaline]

Whaaaa...

I am very confused now! I also feel that Maxi has stated his discussion topic rather well in his last post...

I'm off to listen to Sidca, drink 4 cans of Irn Bru 32 and then pop some Kalms for a laff

I agree with Dan, Maxi has contadicted himself completely. To be honest he's had his back up against the wall with half the stuff he's spouted out in this thread. I'm not saying i disagree with everything he's said by any means, but a lot of what he's said is very contradictory and doesn't add up. But of course he's entitled to an opinion as am i.

[davewarden]

If bands take year or so to become good... then how can "having something in the pipeline" mean that they are gonna be any good at all!? Seeing that 'pipeline' stage to being brilliant would take a good length of time.

The word potential springs to mind.

[Guest Mr Blastcap]

ten points awarded to team Bazra

i started typing a big reply, but got lost along the way. Sidca are to return soon, probably on the back of our own bi-monthly night somewhere nasty and diy, and i think the Aberdeen scene needs us. And also me and Craig from Sidca look like we are joining Spike Pile Driver if we make the cut, another band that Aberdeen needs direly. which is pleasing , as spike were one of the handfull of bands up here that i actually liked.

nae sure if this is the kind of pipeline stuff you are looking for Maxi but i'm sure there are other exciting developements in Aberdeen as well. Craigs also joined a band with sandy galloway which i'm particularly looking forward to hearing.....especially since they are deconstructing "jazz" by fuck.

jim, i thought your days (or evenings i should say) hooked on Kalms were well behind you when Drakes folded...............................

[soundian]

It can be a big problem if your band isn't a standard line up (in terms of instrumentation). I've lost track of the amount of times where we've told the sound engineer exactly what should be loud/quiet and in which parts of the set, only for them to turn down anything that isn't a guitar. Surely that is a problem with mixing rather than source sound?

Maybe that's just an engineer problem , maybe it's your band dynamics confusing the poor SE, maybe your so unique they don't know what to do?

If you need things turned up/down in the mix at specific points you'd be best taking your own SE with you, otherwise sort your own dynamics out.

[soundian]

A good band should be able to control their own dynamics - dynamics are a good thing in music. It can give a song a personality. But that is not the sound engineers job. If you know one instrument is supposed to be louder at one point than the others, then you hold back and let the main instrument lead - very simple. Know your own songs.

There you go, not rocket science is it?

[Andy Mulhern]

maybe it's your band dynamics confusing the poor SE,

I thought SE's get paid quite well!

[Guest bluesxman]

People are saying band's shouldn't play until they are good enough, which in part was knowing exactly what they need to do to get their sound right, yet they are supposed to do all this with no experience other than the practice room?

An apprenticeship analogy was made earlier, a decent apprenticeship means learning on the job, receiving constructive criticism and directions to improve performance, all that happens round here is that people are instantly slated for elements of their live show being wrong or just plain playing music that some people don't like, rarely constructive criticism. Having said that, Maxi is one of the few people I have seen offering actual pointers to what he didn't like.

Anyway I was listening to that last free Fudge CD the other day, the Sidca track on it was good, I've never seen them before so look forward to catching them.

[Jim Stax]

jim, i thought your days (or evenings i should say) hooked on Kalms were well behind you when Drakes folded...............................

I still awake bathed in cold sweat from time to time laughing:

Lets have 'L' plates for bands and then when they have fine tuned enough to play along side the big boys they get 'P' plates which they then remove on receipt of a hefty applause from and audience not made up of family and mates who love them regardless.

Ultimately being in a band is great fun and should always be so no matter the competency. What this thread is really about is the 'presumed or otherwise' lack of variety that you will find in a bigger city which in itself brings a higher prefessional benchmark.