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Mr.Mike

fucking lawyers!

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so apparently the association of sheet music publishers (or whatever name they're going under) has basically decided to get their lawyers to threaten all the main guitar tab sites on the internet with legal action unless they close down. this is bullshit. you can read one of the letters sent by the lawyers @

http://www.guitartabs.com/nmpa.php?PHPSESSID=64eb76ceed6d882e4331adaff6507f65

i honestly don't understand what harm these sites do. they promote the learning of music (especially for many people who simply cannot afford the price of a teacher) to a massive audience. i'm sure most guitarists like myself would still buy the 'official' sheet music if it were available for all bands which it isn't. I wouldn't mind as much if the people who write these books bothered to transcribe more than the standard 'guitar heroes and bands of the moment' shite that they do at the moment.

i also fail to see how a loose transcription (they are very rarely spot on) of a song can be construed as copyright infringement in the same way p2p downloading is. it just seems like kicking up a fuss almost for the sake of it. I'm sure people will point towards a supposed loss of earnings for whoever the fuck writes these books but i ask you this:

how the fuck can you loose money on a product you don't fucking produce?

:swearing: rant over.... (for now)

i apologise if this has already been discussed.

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I think it has been discussed but it's nice to see the actual letter. I think that a loose transcription could be construed to be a copyright infringement in the same way that p2p downloading is because in both cases what you're getting is often an inferior version of the coprighted material. It is pretty obvious what harm can be incurred by the companies in ownership of the copyrights. I must say though, i didn't know I Want To Hold Your Hand was written by Lennon and McCarthy.

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I dont understand why this thread should be titled "fucking lawers" the lawers only do the bidding of whoever retains them.....would you be pissed at the girl behind the desk when you pay your council tax?

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because the lawyers find the loopholes and small text that threatens and fears people into taking down tab sites.

if it actually went to court the tab site could probably argue the right to "reverse engineer" which in most countries is a preserved right. i'm obviously not a lawyer, so couldn't say whether the onus would be on the defendant or the plaintiff to prove that a tab was an originally reverse engineered work, or an actual infringement (i.e. someone copied the tab out of the book).

there's a fine balance between the right to copyright and patent, and the right to reverse engineer and have a competitive market. too much in either direction really stifles innovation and invention.

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it's really not that big a problem to be honest, because

A) i tend to learn other bands material from ear

B) I don't tend to play other bands material that much

C) The tabs i go for usually turn out wrong

but still, fuck the system :swearing:

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I dont understand why this thread should be titled "fucking lawers" the lawers only do the bidding of whoever retains them.....would you be pissed at the girl behind the desk when you pay your council tax?

well to start i don't pay council tax. I'm a student:D

but fair point' date=' i guess my rage at the situation may have clouded my judgement when naming the thread. still, as spellchecker said, the lawyers are the ones who pick apart the loopholes in these laws and they essentially profit form the misery of others (i don't mean in all cases before you get all pedantic again).

anyway the lawyers aren't really my concern so don't take the piss.

as the link i provided points out (or maybe it's [url']www.mxtabs.net , i forget) these people aren't even willing to strike up any form of licensing agreement that would allow the sites to continue providing their service whilst also increasing revenue for the publishers.

I really do feel this is a step too far. As i said before, how can you claim loss of revenue on products you don't supply?

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There's a substantial point to be made from the fact that more money can be made allowing the tab sites to stay up and running than there is from actual music book sales if a workable system is negotiated between the tab sites and the sheet music companies.

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Interesting...

The versions of these publishers' musical works that you post on your website are not exempt under copyright law. In fact, U.S. copyright law specifically provides that the right to make and distribute arrangements, adaptations, abridgements, or transcriptions of copyrighted musical works, including lyrics, belongs exclusively to the copyright owner of that work.

Well if that parts true it seems fair game, unfortunately.

:down:

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About time too I say! I've long been of the belief that tab on the net is directly responsible for the declining standard of musicianship that we are seeing these days. People only build up a narrow repertoire of coarse approximations to songs by their favorite groups:up:

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Guest Gasss
About time too I say! I've long been of the belief that tab on the net is directly responsible for the declining standard of musicianship that we are seeing these days. People only build up a narrow repertoire of coarse approximations to songs by their favorite groups:up:

I agree 100% Tab discourages guitarists from a) learning to read and write music in a disciplined way that other musicians can understand and b) learning to work out how to play music by ear.

Plus, publishers have owned the rights to sheet music for long before recorded music ever came along.

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I agree 100% Tab discourages guitarists from a) learning to read and write music in a disciplined way that other musicians can understand and b) learning to work out how to play music by ear.

Plus' date=' publishers have owned the rights to sheet music for long before recorded music ever came along.[/quote']

ok. fair point again. but can you or anyone else direct me to sheet music for bands such as mogwai, sebadoh or fugazi?

because if you cant then you're missing my point...

also on a slightly different note: i think people perhaps need to get off their highhorse about people learning instruments in a disciplined way. it doesn't matter how you play your instrument so long as the end product is pleasing to the ear (IMHO of course)

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I dont understand why this thread should be titled "fucking lawers" the lawers only do the bidding of whoever retains them.....would you be pissed at the girl behind the desk when you pay your council tax?

well said!

lawyers are just doing their job,its the music people who seek out the lawyers for their own evil doing.

i should probably know stuff about this since i did copyright as one of my honurs classes last term, but i've forgotten most of it already lol

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Yeah, you've even forgotten how to spell Honours !

Guitar tab sites, while useful are rarely correct and encourage guitarists to take shortcuts in learning how to play guitar. This , imho, degrades the quality of new guitarists.

I never learned to read music but had to work everything out by ear. You don't need the sheet music if you can do this.

...and don't start me about electronic tuners ;)

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Yeah' date=' you've even forgotten how to spell Honours ![/quote']

lol, it's not my spelling that's the problem just my shit typing :)

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Yeah' date=' you've even forgotten how to spell Honours !

Guitar tab sites, while useful are rarely correct and encourage guitarists to take shortcuts in learning how to play guitar. [b']This , imho, degrades the quality of new guitarists.

I never learned to read music but had to work everything out by ear. You don't need the sheet music if you can do this.

...and don't start me about electronic tuners ;)

You are having a Steffi Graff.

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You are having a Steffi Graff.

Yeah maybe a little bit. It was my first post :up:

I'm just jealous of how easy the new generation of guitarists has it. (I'm old).

I used to have to sit for hours putting the needle back time after time to try and work out tracks from vinyl.

And tuners; The first thing I told people when they asked me to teach them guitar was learn how to tune it. If you can't tune a guitar yourself your never going to be able to play it.

Now I'm not talking about having a tuner on stage to help keep you in tune without boring people to death at the end of every song. I'm talking about people that rely on electronic gadgets to make up for the fact that they're tone deaf !

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