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Sam_b

Military March tomorrow - support Stop The War!

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In case anyone's unaware, tomorrow morning there's going to be a big procession down Union Street at about 10:30am. There'll also be a rally at the Castlegate from 11.

What would be really useful if if people could come and support the Stop The War stall, hand out leaflets, and the like. The more people that can come the better. The military bigwigs need reminded that this illegal war is costing the lives of thousands of soldiers and civilians, including one Aberdeen soldier. So its vitally important people come out on Saturday and support the troops by demanding they are SENT HOME!

Cheers. :princess:

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To be fair, it's not the 'military bigwigs' you need to tell...

As far as I know this parade is to mark the granting of the Freedom of the City to the Gordon Highlanders, in recognition of their service in many conflicts, not just this 'illegal' one. I don't see how protesting at this is going to make any difference. Wrong target, surely?...

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To be fair' date=' it's not the 'military bigwigs' you need to tell...

As far as I know this parade is to mark the granting of the Freedom of the City to the Gordon Highlanders, in recognition of their service in [i']many conflicts, not just this 'illegal' one. I don't see how protesting at this is going to make any difference. Wrong target, surely?...

I agree. I hate anti-war bandwagon jumpers. These guys just do their jobs and they deserve credit for it.

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It's all very well having "Stop The War" protests if you believe in them, but what gets my goat is the fact that some of these protestors think that's really a case of getting all the soldiers on a plane and flying them back home.

We can't just pull all of the soldiers out of Iraq because it just doesn't work like that. There has to be strategies put in place when the military believes the Iraqi security forces are able to fend for themselves. Surely pulling out too early is just as bad as starting what some see as an illegal war.

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Surely every war is deemed illegal or wrong?

Surely by saying bring all our troops home now is making them redundant?

And finaly Surely if the troops didnt want to be out there they wouldnt have joined an armed force?

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Surely every war is deemed illegal or wrong?

Surely by saying bring all our troops home now is making them redundant?

And finaly Surely if the troops didnt want to be out there they wouldnt have joined an armed force?

Most troops are out ther because that they believe their duty is to serve their country. There is certain protocal for war but I'm sure someone with more sense than me can explain that and no bringing the troops home will not make them redundant.

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Surely pulling out too early is just as bad as starting what some see as an illegal war.

Why not pull out now? Saddam is gone, the country has gone to shit even more (lower life expectancy etc) Why bother with Iraq at all?

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Guest DustyDeviada
Why not pull out now? Saddam is gone' date=' the country has gone to shit even more (lower life expectancy etc) Why bother with Iraq at all?[/quote']

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"oil that is, black gold, Texas tea"

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Oil would be one reason, true. They have to make sure that it's secured and that the insurgents don't start blowing up more oil fields.

The other reason being that the troops have to finish the job. You can't just invade a country then bugger off. Well, you can, but both the US and UK military are trying to make Iraq a much more peaceful place, which I admit will take a hell of a long time. Afghanistan now has a UN peacekeeping mission which will probably be extended to Iraq in a few years time when Britain starts to pull out.

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Because if we pulled out now the democratically elected Iraqi government would be overthrown within a week' date=' Saddam would be out of his jail cell and more powerful than ever before, and other countries would take the US's lack of resolve as a cue to invade Israel.

Not to mention that the coalition forces are there at the invitation of the Iraqi government. They'll leave when they're asked to leave.

As for the protest at the parade tomorrow, it's not going to do the Stop The War people any favours whatsoever. Wrong time, wrong message. It's only going to offend and infuriate the veterans and families present.[/quote']

Said it far, far better than what I was going for.

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If you are able to stop a War by protesting it, then I am able to be King Of Scotland by asking for it!!

Sadly, neither will happen.

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Because if we pulled out now the democratically elected Iraqi government would be overthrown within a week' date=' Saddam would be out of his jail cell and more powerful than ever before, and other countries would take the US's lack of resolve as a cue to invade Israel.[/quote']

We are in the UK. What the fuck has it got to do with us?

Bombs in underground trains is only the fucking start of their revolt, mark my words...

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The guys who dug the pits at Auschwitz were just doing their job too.

Sieg Heil.

There's a huge difference here between the people who were taking part of the systematic destruction of what was perceieved as "inferior humans" and a war that was designed to overthrow a dictatorship and bring democracy to Iraq.

For the record, I am against the war in Iraq, I think it was a huge mistake and I don't believe it was entirely for the reasons I stated above. But are you seriously comparing the veterans of a divison that has fought in both World Wars to the Nazi organisation? If so, I'll second Alkaline's 'fuck off'

The soldiers are doing their job. The protest should be aimed at those in charge, not the regular staff. You have a problem with how a company works then you don't protest against the workers, you protest against the officials in charge.

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There's a huge difference here between the people who were taking part of the systematic destruction of what was perceieved as "inferior humans" and a war that was designed to overthrow a dictatorship and bring democracy to Iraq.

For the record' date=' I am against the war in Iraq, I think it was a huge mistake and I don't believe it was entirely for the reasons I stated above. But are you seriously comparing the veterans of a divison that has fought in both World Wars to the Nazi organisation? If so, I'll second Alkaline's 'fuck off'

The soldiers are doing their job. The protest should be aimed at those in charge, not the regular staff. You have a problem with how a company works then you don't protest against the workers, you protest against the officials in charge.[/quote']

Thank you my good man, eloquently put.

The 'fuck off' was all i could manage at the time as i was really angered by that comment.

My grandfather risked his life in that war so people like Keilan 303 could retain his freedom of speech and rights in this country. Incidentaly my Grandfather also spent over 2 years in a prisoner of war camp to boot.

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Guest Bob

Well I hope it's a nice day out for you, but really, you're just going to be a pointless annoyance.

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and a war that was designed to overthrow a dictatorship and bring democracy to Iraq.

I thought the war was to rid Iraq of it's "weapons of mass destruction"? Oh that's right, they lied to us so they could wage their illegal war...

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I don't think a protest like this will really do much good, unless its a quite protest handing out information and allowing people to approach for information. Otherwise it'll just be annoying. And not to forget people and politicians are decensitised to protests these days, it worked 30 years ago but nobody really cares anymore.

Most troops are out ther because that they believe their duty is to serve their country.

I don't believe they're not serving their country rather they're serving the politicians and decision makers' date=' this war hasn't helped our country or the Iraqis. How anyone can think they're serving their country by going to Iraq is beyond me, although from [i']my experience many British soldiers know this all to well and they're not happy.

I do know guys who have been out there, thankfuly they're back now but they were in Iraq simply because they had to be there and that was that. Thanks to this war and the actions of our government they chose to quit the military.

Because if we pulled out now the democratically elected Iraqi government would be overthrown within a week' date=' Saddam would be out of his jail cell and more powerful than ever before[/quote']

Well, he'd most likely be hunted down and killed in no time.

There's a huge difference here between the people who were taking part of the systematic destruction of what was perceieved as "inferior humans" and a war that was designed to overthrow a dictatorship and bring democracy to Iraq.
Do you really believe that is why we went to war? Maybe that's what the soldiers believed but its certainly not why Blair' date=' Bush and Co started the war.
The soldiers are doing their job.
To be honest that is no excuse at all. If a soldier is given an order they consider to be wrong, illegal, immoral etc it is their duty to stand against this order as shown by the military Doctor at RAF Kinloss who stood for what was right. Germany have shown exactly what happens when people just follow orders, and no we are not immune from this.

I don't think Keilan 303's comment warrants such abuse replies, it's something which should be discussed and taken in to seriously. If we simply say "fuck off" when someone challenges our troops reason's for being at war then we risk another Nazi situation where people don't stand up for what is right then end up in a situation where they can't stand up at all.

Disclaimer: this is all my opinion and I'm not telling anyone what to think ;)

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Reminds me of this well-known poem...

First they came for the Jews

and I did not speak out

because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists

and I did not speak out

because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists

and I did not speak out

because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me

and there was no one left

to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

Having said that I had a grandad in WW1 and a dad in WW2 who agreed with the reasons for their involvement. It's the reasons behind the current situation that are suspect. Personally I won't be hassling the march tomorrow though.

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We are in the UK. What the fuck has it got to do with us?

Bombs in underground trains is only the fucking start of their revolt' date=' mark my words...[/quote']

Because we have a duty to finish what we started (be it for a right or wrong reason) rather than leave the country in a hell of worse situation that it was in before.

Put it this way... Suddam out of his prison cell + obsessive followers + a lot of people displaying their joy when he was captured = a lot of dead people.

Plus the oil and the new government going to shit. We owe it to these people as compassionate human beings to help bring some form of stabilty to their country.

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Thank you my good man' date=' eloquently put.

The 'fuck off' was all i could manage at the time as i was really angered by that comment.

My grandfather risked his life in that war so people like Keilan 303 could retain his freedom of speech and rights in this country. Incidentaly my Grandfather also spent over 2 years in a prisoner of war camp to boot.[/quote']

No disrespect to your Grandfather but Im sure if he was fighting in WW2 that was for a far more important/better cause than Iraq being a bit dodgy.

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Because we have a duty to finish what we started (be it for a right or wrong reason) rather than leave the country in a hell of worse situation that it was in before.

.

But it is in a worse condition than before.

Plus the oil and the new government going to shit. We owe it to these people as compassionate human beings to help bring some form of stabilty to their country.

But there are plenty other countries that could do with stability too.

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To be honest that is no excuse at all. If a soldier is given an order they consider to be wrong' date=' illegal, immoral etc it is their duty to stand against this order as shown by the military Doctor at RAF Kinloss who stood for what was right. Germany have shown exactly what happens when people just follow orders, and no we are not immune from this.

[/quote']

To be fair, soldiers can face prison for disobeying an order, and I think many would prefer not to be stuck in prison. They may have morals, but they also have families and other responsibilities to look after, and following the duty to obey orders seems the easier option.

Any war could be claimed to be illegal, but that doesn't stop people signing up to become soldiers. No-one should be signing up to the army believing that they won't be called up for combat...

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No disrespect to your Grandfather but Im sure if he was fighting in WW2 that was for a far more important/better cause than Iraq being a bit dodgy.

I'm not gonna explain myself overly again, but Saddam was doing a similar thing to the shiite's to what the Nazi's did to the Jews. Or does releasing sarin gas on innocent women and children not count so long as its not jewish people?

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