Bank charges

[paranoid]

Are the charges really that unreasonable though? If the charges are subsidising you with free personal banking' date=' cheap telephone banking (I can phone my bank for the cost of a local call and talk to a real person, without being held on hold for hours, and get them to do anything and tell me anything over the phone...quite good deal AND it's usually a UK person on the line), free direct debits, free standing orders, no charges to withdraw cash from a lot of bank machines, free use of a debit card and so on, is it really that unreasonable to hit people with charges in order to make some profit from the account?[/quote']

You don't find a 30 charge for a 12p "slip-up" unreasonable?

o_O

[Cloud]

You don't find a 30 charge for a 12p "slip-up" unreasonable?

Not really. I can see that the charges subsidise "free" personal banking, so ultimately it's fair enough in my book. I'd rather live with the risk of being charged 30 for a slip up than have to pay small charges for everything. It rewards prudence, so ultimately, it suits me.

[framheim]

Are the charges really that unreasonable though? If the charges are subsidising you with free personal banking' date=' cheap telephone banking (I can phone my bank for the cost of a local call and talk to a real person, without being held on hold for hours, and get them to do anything and tell me anything over the phone...quite good deal AND it's usually a UK person on the line), free direct debits, free standing orders, no charges to withdraw cash from a lot of bank machines, free use of a debit card and so on, is it really that unreasonable to hit people with charges in order to make some profit from the account?[/quote']

hold up there cowboy. free charges to withdraw your OWN money from a bank machine is not a fucking privelage right. let me just pop that fucking bubble.

and banks do not make all their income from the charges they lay on us, they make much more from business banking, mortgages, loans, selling repossessed goods and homes, share dealing etc. banks have profits envied by countries not just other businesses so enough of this subsidising crap ok?

[666]

I cant believe....actually I can believe that people think you should never be overdrawn and its "easy" to keep on top of your bank account.

Yes' date=' its easy for me to know how much is in my account, when money comes off, etc etc but Im lucky enough to have a job. This, however, does not make much difference if you are a student who has 3 in his/her bank account, no food in the flat etc. What you going to do?

Bank charges are never an issue if you are taking in plenty money and are on top of your finances but squillions of people flirt with being very close to the overdraft limit, not because they are careless, just because they simply dont have lots of money coming in every month. Charging people with a low income i.e. students, low wage earners 30/40 a time just fucks these people over, especially when its a person who is not just being careless and doesnt care about being overdrawn.[/quote']

very good point.

but aren't students some of the biggest spenders in the UK?

i mean, correct me if i'm wrong...but is it not students who go to clubs every other week/end and spend ridiculous amounts on alcohol?

and student who most often go to places like the hogs head (no pun/joke intended), or archibald simpsons or burger king even and sandwich bars, which compared to buying food from a supermarket and taking a lunchbox (filled of course) with them *gasp* is a lot more expensive because it's convenience food?

and is this, as a whole, not unnecessary spending?

of course, i believe this is only the majority, and there will be exceptions to the rule.

[Spoonie]

Are the charges really that unreasonable though?

well let's just see...

If the charges are subsidising you with free personal banking' date=' cheap telephone banking (I can phone my bank for the cost of a local call and talk to a real person, without being held on hold for hours, and get them to do anything and tell me anything over the phone...quite good deal AND it's usually a UK person on the line)[/quote']

i pay a monthly fee for a royalties account. only a few quid but i'm sure that when combined with the few quid that the other customers pay, it covers the costs of these services. i also pay interest on my overdraft. that's money they make for nothing.

free direct debits' date=' [/quote']

woo, a service that takes 2 seconds for the bank to set up and which allows my money to be automatically removed from my account. awesome!

free standing orders

woo' date=' same as above!

no charges to withdraw cash from a lot of bank machines,

and why the fuck is that a bonus? why would i pay to take my own money out?

free use of a debit card and so on

again' date=' free access to my own money!

is it really that unreasonable to hit people with charges in order to make some profit from the account?

not if they're being ridiculous and abusing the account, but when simple mistakes are made, yex it is.

/x

[666]

there are a number of threads which are almost exact replicas of this on alternative nation! someone mentions bank charges' date=' anti-student chat starts, usual 'it's your own fault' chat starts, people who work for banks jump to their employers defense. same old same old!

/x[/quote']

even if i didn't work for a bank, i'd more than likely stand with my opinion that the customer has to manage their finances. banks are only there for financial services/help, but most of all to SAFEGUARD your money.

a bank is about as safe a place that you get to trust your money with. unless you have a secret under-ground grotto where you can keep your stash hidden from capitalism.

banks, you see, were originally "invented" to safeguard the citizens money. and if you go over your agreed limit, you are stepping on the banks' shoes. it can hardly be their fault (in most cases).

i just really think it's time for people to practice some responsibility.

[Spoonie]

i fully agree that people can't go through life pissing money up against the wall and expecting not to get shat on for doing it but i think that you, like many people, have a very limited view of th world based on your own experiences and do not see the realities of systems such as this. i'm not blaming you for this, i just think that perhaps if you worked in a situation where you had to deal with people who were less financially secure than yourself, you'd maybe realise that it's not all arseholes who have no idea how to budget properly.

/x

[PrincessHolly]

I can't believe some of the arguements people are making with regards to this thread.

I think about 2% of people in the world could tell you accurately on a daily basis how much money they have in their account(s).

The problem with using debit cards is that different places take different amounts of time to take money from your account, therefore, you may well think you have more money than you actually do.

Even people who work for banks (I'm soon to be one of them) I'm sure would agree that the charges are unreasonable and I'm pretty sure that people who end up overdrawn by miniscule amounts are mostly just blaming the banks for their own mistake anyway. It's an easy thing to do.

[Cloud]

hold up there cowboy. free charges to withdraw your OWN money from a bank machine is not a fucking privelage right. let me just pop that fucking bubble.

Why isn't it? It costs money to maintain ATM's' date=' for a start. Why should anyone have a right to withdraw their cash for free? You can't have it both ways - either you pay the going rate, or you pay for it some other way.

and banks do not make all their income from the charges they lay on us, they make much more from business banking, mortgages, loans, selling repossessed goods and homes, share dealing etc. banks have profits envied by countries not just other businesses so enough of this subsidising crap ok?

They make pretty much fuck all from personal banking - looking at this

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4781924.stm

£1.05 a week from an average customer? Not very much really, but would you be happy to pay £4.20 a month for your account in order to get "fair" charges? Charging for a basic bank account would be commercial suicide - so how do they make money from the accounts? Simple, they overcharge people on penalty fees.

I bet more people would complain if they were charged for everything than if they're only charged for their own mistakes.

The problem with using debit cards is that different places take different amounts of time to take money from your account' date=' therefore, you may well think you have more money than you actually do.[/quote']

Grr, tell me about it. I always make a point of checking my balance only at my own bank's machines - because it's the only one that's reliable enough to tell you what you can actually use, as opposed to what appears to be in the account.

Spoonie - it might be your money, but why should you get those services for free? I'm not sure why banks should offer anything for free - sure, it's nice that they do, but I don't expect them to give me anything for free.

Having said that, the system of only paying benefits into the bank is one of the biggest criminal acts ever done, especially with the impending end of the post office accounts.

[Hog]

Why isn't it? It costs money to maintain ATM's' date=' for a start .[/quote']

But Cloud, Im sure they could afford to have hundreds of ATM's in every branch, paid for by the 30/40 charges for being 12p overdrawn?

[666]

i fully agree that people can't go through life pissing money up against the wall and expecting not to get shat on for doing it but i think that you' date=' like many people, have a very limited view of th world based on your own experiences and do not see the realities of systems such as this. i'm not blaming you for this, i just think that perhaps if you worked in a situation where you had to deal with people who were less financially secure than yourself, you'd maybe realise that it's not all arseholes who have no idea how to budget properly.

/x[/quote']

i made that mistake once when i got my first account...it left me scarred for life

hence i've become a lot more careful with my money...

[framheim]

Why isn't it? It costs money to maintain ATM's' date=' for a start. Why should anyone have a right to withdraw their cash for free? You can't have it both ways - either you pay the going rate, or you pay for it some other way.

They make pretty much fuck all from personal banking - looking at this

[url']http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4781924.stm

1.05 a week from an average customer? Not very much really, but would you be happy to pay 4.20 a month for your account in order to get "fair" charges? Charging for a basic bank account would be commercial suicide - so how do they make money from the accounts? Simple, they overcharge people on penalty fees.

I bet more people would complain if they were charged for everything than if they're only charged for their own mistakes.

Grr, tell me about it. I always make a point of checking my balance only at my own bank's machines - because it's the only one that's reliable enough to tell you what you can actually use, as opposed to what appears to be in the account.

Spoonie - it might be your money, but why should you get those services for free? I'm not sure why banks should offer anything for free - sure, it's nice that they do, but I don't expect them to give me anything for free.

Having said that, the system of only paying benefits into the bank is one of the biggest criminal acts ever done, especially with the impending end of the post office accounts.

did you get to the bit in that article about the average customer being overcharged by about 400 a year?

also as stated in that article the banks use their current accounts as means to grab customers in the hope of selling them premium services such as mortgages, loans and isa's. banks also make money by re-investing our money which i'll bet isn't included in the 1.05 figure you quoted(as that will be money made from direct charges no doubt).

thanks for providing the link to that article which has nicely backed up my arguments

[Cloud]

But Cloud' date=' Im sure they could afford to have hundreds of ATM's in every branch, paid for by the 30/40 charges for being 12p overdrawn?[/quote']

Course they could, hence why people shouldn't bank with banks who have been withdrawing their machines left/right/centre. Clydesdale and the Bank of Scotland are big offenders in that respect.

[Cloud]

did you get to the bit in that article about the average customer being overcharged by about 400 a year?

400 a year?! what kind of average customer is that? I've probably not paid more than 400 in three and a bit years of having a premium account (with a monthly fee)' date=' so where they get 400 from is beyond me...

also as stated in that article the banks use their current accounts as means to grab customers in the hope of selling them premium services such as mortgages, loans and isa's. banks also make money by re-investing our money which i'll bet isn't included in the 1.05 figure you quoted(as that will be money made from direct charges no doubt).

Common business sense, isn't it? Give them a free product, get them lured in and they'll buy other stuff from you. I don't think anyone's in doubt that "free" personal accounts are used as bait. But obviously the personal accounts have to pay their own way too - shareholders wouldn't be happy to see millions of pounds lost providing personal accounts, would they?

thanks for providing the link to that article which has nicely backed up my arguments

And backed up mine, depending on perspective

[paranoid]

And backed up mine' date=' depending on perspective [/quote']

"I would try to see things from your perspective, but I can't get my head that far up my own arse."

Banks must love mugs like you, who happily pay up for charges, and justify the banks actions for them while you do it.

[Cloud]

Banks must love mugs like you' date=' who happily pay up for charges, and justify the banks actions for them while you do it.[/quote']

Never paid any bank charges, so

I did get caught out once, but I went into the bank and got them to waive it through asking nicely.

Anyway, if they wouldn't waive the charges, I would've paid up and took it on the chin - why complain when it's your own stupid fault in the first place? It's not like they don't make it explicitly clear what the charges are.

Maybe I just believe in a free market

[paranoid]

Never paid any bank charges' date=' so [/quote']

I said "mugs LIKE you", so *insert smug-shit smilie here*

[soundian]

Why isn't it? It costs money to maintain ATM's' date=' for a start. Why should anyone have a right to withdraw [b']their cash for free? You can't have it both ways - either you pay the going rate, or you pay for it some other way.

Why should someone pay to access their OWN money?

As for the cost of ATM's, how much do the banks SAVE every year by not having nearly as much branches or staff?

As I said, it's not paying these charges that's the problem, it's the scale of the charges for small amounts overdrawn. Being charged 30 for a 3 "loan" is usury in all but name.

[Spoonie]

Spoonie - it might be your money' date=' but why should you get those services for free? I'm not sure why banks should offer anything for free - sure, it's nice that they do, but I don't expect them to give me anything for free. [/quote']

i don't get it for free. i pay a monthly fee and pay interest on my overdrafts and the money that is held in banks (more large amounts by businesses than personal account holders) is invested and they earn on those investments. they make money from me in every possible way.

as for people who work for banks, i start a graduate scheme with RBS in the autumn and i still think it's a joke so you can all eat a bowl of dicks.

/x

[Frosty Jack]

Never paid any bank charges' date=' so

I did get caught out once, but I went into the bank and got them to waive it through asking nicely.

Anyway, if they wouldn't waive the charges, I would've paid up and took it on the chin - why complain when it's your own stupid fault in the first place? It's not like they don't make it explicitly clear what the charges are.

Maybe I just believe in a free market [/quote']

A free market? If it was a free market, I'd use the bank that has reasonable terms and conditions. I'd use the bank that doesn't charge me 30 for a service that costs them 50p. I'd use the bank that tells me there's a problem straight away and lets me correct it rather than simply charging me over and over again regardless. Which bank would that be? Unfortunately there isn't one, because it's not a free market. Banks all behave the way they do because they can. No-one is objecting to being penalised. But they have a right to object to being ripped off.

Where did you get the idea that banks are reliant on these penalty charges to survive? The top 5 UK banks recently announced profits of 33 billion. They can well afford to start being reasonable.

[Guest Hon Jonda]

I paid 2 to that experian place and they couldn't actually send me a credit report. Nice waste of 2.

I paid 5 to find a number between 0 and 1000

that number was 903 which is quite good or so they say

[Guest Hon Jonda]

I have a tin in a house up north hidden under the floorboards of a basement floor of a disused farm house. The house is owned by a trusted person. This is my main savings account

[Hog]

Course they could' date=' hence why people shouldn't bank with banks who have been withdrawing their machines left/right/centre. Clydesdale and the Bank of Scotland are big offenders in that respect.[/quote']

So who should you bank with man?

[Cloud]

So who should you bank with man?

Depends on the individual. I wouldn't touch HBOS or the Clydesdale with a bargepole - Clydesdale because of the amount of rural banks they closed and HBOS because of the amount of machines they converted into fee paying ones.

I've never had any problems with Lloyds TSB - they give me a generous overdraft, they don't charge you 30 for going over your limit within the first 10 and they've waived the fee in the past when I accidentally managed to have no money in my account when a direct debit was due to come off. Their telephone/internet banking is superb on top. Other people's mileage may vary, though, especially as they're one of the big banks.

[framheim]

Depends on the individual. I wouldn't touch HBOS or the Clydesdale with a bargepole - Clydesdale because of the amount of rural banks they closed and HBOS because of the amount of machines they converted into fee paying ones.

I've never had any problems with Lloyds TSB - they give me a generous overdraft' date=' they don't charge you £30 for going over your limit within the first £10 and they've waived the fee in the past when I accidentally managed to have no money in my account when a direct debit was due to come off. Their telephone/internet banking is superb on top. Other people's mileage may vary, though, especially as they're one of the big banks.[/quote']

see i quit tsb years ago because they wouldn't let me open a student account because i wasn't in first year of my course and went with the much friendlier halifax. my only complaints with halifax are bank charges, everything else they've been incredibly helpful with.