Spoonie Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 In terms of creativity' date=' remember the fact that you also have complete and total control over the whole song, i.e you are the bass player, the keys player, the singer, the drummer, whatever you want. If you like working on your own you have more opportunity to create what you yourself really want to create.[/quote']that's the part of digital music production that appeals to me least. in a band situation, i have a very focused idea of how i put basslines together and it works for me. that is fine, but i look to the other members of the band to put their parts in, before we deconstruct and reconstruct the piece until we have an overall finished product that we're pleased with. in quixote for example, our drummer has a far better idea of the possibilities of what his instrument can do than i do and there aren't many (if any) things i could ask for that he'd not be able to provide if i did have an idea for a drum line. if i had the ability to play all instruments and put together some kind of masterpiece in my head before recording it, i might find digital production more useful a tool and be more inclined to learn how to use t. as it is, i am interested in playing bass and using this as my tool to make the sounds i want in the kind of band i want.some of the best songs i've been involved with come through jamming when we stop and someone says "play that bit again with the doodle doodle widdle doo bit in it" and we start again from that. i can't imagine that being possible if it was just me in front of a computer playing all the parts.don't get me wrong, i appreciate that it takes skill and real dedication to put together music in the way that you do stripey and i have quite a few friends on Alex's course who do that kind of thing and produce varying types of electronic music, it's just not for me.i can see why you might not be digging gary moore but that's what i love. i went to see chris rea the other week and he's just released an 11 CD set of blues recordings, each of which covers an area of the blues (i.e. delta blues, african blues, etc) and for each, they built the studio in exactly the way it would have been at the time the music represents, including all the equipment. to me, that is a far more interesting pursuit. /x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen B Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Screw the goddamned means, it's the result that matters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryn Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 That Gary Moore thing is one of the most un-moving guitar pieces ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bailz Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 That Gary Moore thing is one of the most un-moving guitar pieces ever.If you want moving music by Gary Moore listen to 'The Messiah Will Come Again' from After the War or 'The Prophet' from Back to the Blues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingin' Ryan Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 that's the part of digital music production that appeals to me least. in a band situation' date=' i have a very focused idea of how i put basslines together and it works for me. that is fine, but i look to the other members of the band to put their parts in, before we deconstruct and reconstruct the piece until we have an overall finished product that we're pleased with. in quixote for example, our drummer has a far better idea of the possibilities of what his instrument can do than i do and there aren't many (if any) things i could ask for that he'd not be able to provide if i did have an idea for a drum line. if i had the ability to play all instruments and put together some kind of masterpiece in my head before recording it, i might find digital production more useful a tool and be more inclined to learn how to use t. as it is, i am interested in playing bass and using this as my tool to make the sounds i want in the kind of band i want.some of the best songs i've been involved with come through jamming when we stop and someone says "play that bit again with the doodle doodle widdle doo bit in it" and we start again from that. i can't imagine that being possible if it was just me in front of a computer playing all the parts.don't get me wrong, i appreciate that it takes skill and real dedication to put together music in the way that you do stripey and i have quite a few friends on Alex's course who do that kind of thing and produce varying types of electronic music, it's just not for me.i can see why you might not be digging gary moore but that's what i love. i went to see chris rea the other week and he's just released an 11 CD set of blues recordings, each of which covers an area of the blues (i.e. delta blues, african blues, etc) and for each, they built the studio in exactly the way it would have been at the time the music represents, including all the equipment. to me, that is a far more interesting pursuit. /x[/quote']Pretty much agree with that.There's a lot of electronic-based music that I love, but at the end of the day for me, the idea of sitting and inputing things into a computer just doesn't compare to jamming along with other people on a drum kit or strumming a guitar.Different strokes for different folks I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 it's tedious because people won't accept other peoples opinions bar their own. we're all on the same side yet are using different tools. it's not us and them with traditional instruments vs computers' date=' it's everyone creating music using instruments which vary in method yet which are all ultimately doing the same thing. it's just different interfaces.[/quote']hear hear that man! the opinions on this thread i've thought had the wrong idea all seemed to think that using a computer automates functions. They can, but a guitarist can just go on what they've learnt. Both ways generate pretty sterile music, the fun part is fucking up the automation. It seems that a lot of people fear computers as ursurping the position of the musician, when the real music's created when the musician is being creative with the tool, same as any other form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 That Gary Moore thing is one of the most un-moving guitar pieces ever.nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Jack Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 nonsense.Seriously, you're mistaken. Gary Moore is just horrible. Please check out 'Live at the El Mocambo' by Stevie Ray Vaughan. That's what it's all about.Anyone else who says Gary Moore is good is getting banned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bailz Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Seriously' date=' you're mistaken. Gary Moore is just horrible. Please check out 'Live at the El Mocambo' by Stevie Ray Vaughan. That's what it's all about.Anyone else who says Gary Moore is good is getting banned.[/quote']Fairly bad example to set being a staff member, but to each their own.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WVfWsl1AA4&search=gary%20moore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Seriously' date=' you're mistaken. Gary Moore is just horrible. Please check out 'Live at the El Mocambo' by Stevie Ray Vaughan. That's what it's all about.Anyone else who says Gary Moore is good is getting banned.[/quote']i think all those years of alcohol abuse have affected you old timer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Jack Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 i think all those years of alcohol abuse have affected you old timer We will clearly never agree on this point, therefore you are banned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyScaryMark Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 If that's an exclusive list' date=' you could do with reading up a bit about how electronic synthesis works. Or pay me 500 for a sensor to midi interface?[/quote']I am not an expert on music technology but I do own a number of digital keyboards and software synths which i play regularly as my 2nd instrument. I am a music student and I hope to be able to play piano and keyboards at a professional standard someday. Possibly even study it full-time at some pointA Kurzweill K2600, Korg Triton Extreme and Roland RD700 are also on my wish list. I probably will only get one in the relatively near future due to the fact they are expensive and I have no money.I think a lot of concern over digital things is that you're using preset recreatable capabilities of the instrument. The point at which my head gives up with the maths calculating partials in FM synthesis is the same point as it gives up describing the guitar as a method of solving complex differential equations though. They're just totally different methods of control. I find there's as much unpredictable creativity on electronic gear as there is guitar. To an extent sound posibilities of an instrument can be expanded by the equipment available to the performer. This is the case with any instrument and not just digital ones. Equipment should never be looked upon as a limiting factor ... what is more musical than the voice? I will make sound pre-sets for my guitar as well as for my keyboards when I can't find what i want from an existing pre-set. I use digital technology for my guitar tone as well as keyboards. I think there are loads of traditional (sic!) musicians who feel that unless something's being recreated from new every time it's played' date=' it loses live authenticity. Traditional musicians are limited by their reliance on what they've [i']already written coupled with inertia both personal and external in affecting changes. Electronic musicians still have these, but a far more dialectic method of interacting with their creations live with the affordance of electronic kit . If electronic music is being discussed as a recreatable form, shouldn't the focus be on where the choices begin to be made?The last paragraph is far from reality. Most musicians improvise. Some merely at the level of creating an interpretation. Some will change the structure, notes and even key of the music, on the spot, live. I have also seen 2 jazz guitar players play for hours at a very high standard, having never met each other before. That is originality at the maximum, well that's not really true. The most original would be if everything was written as it was played but as far as pre-written music goes that has to be pretty close. The ability for a DJ or electronic music 'performer' to change the music live is not as great as someone playing a conventional instrument. A DJ is to some extent confined within what they have entered into their pre-determined loops. I still believe a large part of the joy of live performance is the performers ability to play something a bit differnet from what you have previously heard on recordings or even their last gig. As for guitars being pickup and play instruments?Have you ever used fruity loops? You can create rave tunes without having a clue what you are doing. I am not for one minute suggesting that professional DJ's use the basic pre-wrriten stuff in fruity loops. Also, when I had a loan of a friend's Korg Triton Extreme (pro workstation keyboard), there is many pre-built in riffs, and auto acompanyment. Including one even entitled 'auto rave'. You hit one key and it goes off and plays a rave song for you. You just add whatever you want over the top. Of course most people who take electronic music seriously will write most of their music from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stripey Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Have you ever used fruity loops? You can create rave tunes without having a clue what you are doing. I am not for one minute suggesting that professional DJ's use the basic pre-wrriten stuff in fruity loops. Total rubbish. I think what should be obvious by now in this thread' date=' is that the people posting illinformed rubbish like this about digital production don't actually have a fucking clue what they are talking about. I suppose it isn't really surprising that a bunch of people with their heads stuck in the past 40 or 50 years in terms of how they think about music don't know how modern production techniques work. Of course most people who take electronic music seriously will write most of their music from scratch.YES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 We will clearly never agree on this point' date=' therefore you are banned.[/quote']try it......bitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neubeatz Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Of course most people who take electronic music seriously will write most of their music from scratch.Thats true, but not everyone thinks that, some peeps think it's just triggering presets.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 To an extent sound posibilities of an instrument can be expanded by the equipment available to the performer. This is the case with any instrument and not just digital ones. Equipment should never be looked upon as a limiting factor ... what is more musical than the voice? Even if you don't want to look on equipment as a limiting factor' date=' IT IS! Can you make your voice sound like a cello? Stretch 5 octaves? Sound like Britney (please?)? All I'm trying to say is that it's pushing these limitations and trancending the capabilities of the instrument that are creative. Machines are absolutely the same. The descisions you take on the instrument are defined [i']by the possibilities of that instrumentThe last paragraph is far from reality. Most musicians improvise. Some merely at the level of creating an interpretation. Some will change the structure' date=' notes and even key of the music, on the spot, live. [/quote']You didn't actually refute any of my arguments and I think you may be mostly agreeing with me there. I was saying the emphasis should be on where the choices are made. Better improviser -> more choices to be made = more (possible) creativity, which is about taking descisions, preordained or not. You seem to think a good level of improvising frees you from entropy and reliance on what you've written. Balls! You're not likely to rip a blistering solo in a key you've never heard, and not likely to improvise outside of the sphere in which you can create music. There are exceptions, but they're bastards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 nonsense.see this is the problem with this thread. how can it be nonsense? it's just his opinion. just cause you find the sight of an old man gurning his way through a dull and excruciating version of red house an emotional experience doesn't mean others do. the most emotional experience i've had to music recently was hearing two of my best friends doing a lovely version of bonnie prince billy's i see a darkness at a friends wedding reception. the groom was obviously moved by it and it was sung with more emotion than gary moore could ever dream to gurn through. however i wouldn't expect others to be as moved by it as it's a song close to me and my group of friends yet not for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Stax Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 QuestionWhat's this thread about?o_O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeC Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 It is a case of each to their own and that doesnt float my boat.....in fact it doesnt even get the oars wet, I have messed about with various sampling/sequensing/midi keyboards and I've got to say that most people with a little technical and musical knowlege could produce something similar to that in a few hours, I felt it had no heart, no highlights, and zero wow! factor. Nothing can match the interaction between musicians producing something organic....in my humble opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MKII Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 ... hi there! Is this the real punk rock thread? Oops, my mistake, just passing through... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MKII Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 What's this thread about?o_OIt was great seeing you this morning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Stax Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Boom BipLittle Shying ManAmon TobinThree that I listen to a great deal and that have a great deal of depth to their music and yeeegads, its electronic sample based stuff...I still like hitting my drums more that anything but also love dabbling in the dark arts of midi and programme based gubbins. I have no idea what I am doing more often than not but no denying they are yet another tool for use in creating! I take my hat off to those that make it sound fantastic and look easy! Same goes for anything to be honest. The lass that put my sandwich together the other day was simply inspiring! I immediately went home and laid down a drone piece on the computer called 'my filling my filling with pesto to go'.J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Stax Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 It was great seeing you this morning... Yup. I left you holding a big package in your hand whilst shouting at me o_O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MKII Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Yup. I left you holding a big package in your hand whilst shouting at me o_OThat would have been "Get a haircut!" I didn't think you heard me clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Stax Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 ;( ;( That would have been "Get a haircut!" I didn't think you heard me clearly. ;( ;( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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