Musical Tastes

[HeinzHines]

Most things you have said

I do agree with most of the stuff you have said.

The point i put across was badly written and im not sure how to explain what i mean....

But i can honestly say that i would rather see someone pushing the boundries with an instrument before it has to be processed to create something original, ala Noxagt with bass guitars sounding like chainsaws and viola's that sound so distorted and peircing that they are virtually unrecognisable....without the help of any software.

[bryn]

i think what he means is no one can recreated the exact sound of someone playing a duff note on guitar or slighty missing hitting a drum' date=' during a recording, things which people like to hear, however it is alot easier to recreate something made using computers as the samples and the ways to do it are already in front of you, you just have to find the right buttons.[/quote']

This concept has become really unappealing to me upon acquiring a decent soundsystem, whereby I now cherish perfection. Its really quite enlightening, for example, the other day I was listening to Madonna of all people, and I became aware of notes and sounds (in particular a long sustained bass note in one section) that are simply not picked up when listening through standard speakers. People don't actually know what their favourite songs are 'supposed' to sound like.

[Guest MKII]

I do agree with most of the stuff you have said.

The point i put across was badly written and im not sure how to explain what i mean....

But i can honestly say that i would rather see someone pushing the boundries with an instrument before it has to be processed to create something original' date=' ala Noxagt with bass guitars sounding like chainsaws and viola's that sound so distorted and peircing that they are virtually unrecognisable....without the help of any software.[/quote']

Distorting said instruments is hardly boundary pushing!

[HeinzHines]

Distorting said instruments is hardly boundary pushing!

Yeah, but it doesnt sound merely like a voila or a bass with distortion, they sound super messed up.....although i know what you mean....

Edit: I put cunt at the end, but this may be misread!

[Guest Neubeatz]

Try not to misquote me.....o_O

Ok then....o_O

[Guest MKII]

Yeah' date=' but it doesnt sound merely like a voila or a bass with distortion, they sound super messed up.....although i know what you mean....cunt![/quote']

...juice.

Also, the fact they are putting it through a 'hardware' unit of some kind isn't really any different to putting it through 'software' either.

EDIT: But I dont think that's what you were getting at, you mean 'software' as in no instrument other than perhaps a keybaord?

[HeinzHines]

...juice.

Also' date=' the fact they are putting it through a 'hardware' unit of some kind isn't really any different to putting it through 'software' either. [/quote']

But the hardware is run my mice and the circuits are made by moles.

[Guest MKII]

But the hardware is run my mice and the circuits are made by moles.

Boozing?

I do prefer real instrument manipulation via pedals and the like it must be said!

I find computer based music making, recording etc very sterile, too much time farting about with a mouse, yuk!

[HeinzHines]

I wish i was boozing!

But yes, pedals is where the real manipulation is at for me.

[GraemeC]

I made it clear I wasn't criticising the instrument. 99% of the time' date=' the young are too impressionable and can't see beyond their idols to be original whilst the old are simply incapable.

The recruitment pool for guitar playing is so wide that the reduction in quality is inevitable. Its accesible, easy and corresponds with pop culture. Computer music, on the other hand, must be dug out, and I think this represents a significant distinction already from the mind of the thirteen year old Nirvana fan (or middle-aged obsessive).

Most people are content with skimming the surface of music, a point illustrated by Greame C, chapter 9, Pg142:[/quote']

Sorry but i have to disagree with most of what you say....again.... I work for an old Prog band .. Pallas .. and by far the majority of their current album was created via keyboards computers and sequencers long before they went into the studio, they then all had to learn their parts before recording it with "real" instruments, not an easy task.

And why do you mock me for listening to music I enjoy, does that place me beneath you the evolutionary ladder?

[bryn]

Sorry but i have to disagree with most of what you say....again.... I work for an old Prog band .. Pallas .. and by far the majority of their current album was created via keyboards computers and sequencers long before they went into the studio' date=' they then all had to learn their parts before recording it with "real" instruments, not an easy task.

And why do you mock me for listening to music I enjoy, does that place me beneath you the evolutionary ladder?[/quote']

I didn't intend to mock, I merely noticed something you said that agreed with my opinion that there is in existence a majority group of music listeners and players who essentially have the same motives; hence the descriptive terms 'original' and 'creative' in my opinion should not be hastily applied to anyone.

When I suggested older people are incapable I was referring particularly to beginners, and I stand by that. It wasn't a comment against you, for I have no idea who you are.

[chuzzy]

well, im into prog jst now, and i think that a good song shood hav a meaning behind it, this makes the song alot more powerful. well thats wot i wood say. OOO it also wood b amazing to hav a fuk off guitar solo e.g john petrucci and jordan rudess solo in "in the name of god" by dream theater.

[soundian]

Being creative has got nothing to do with your mastery of your instrument, some people who I regard as highly creative are no more than average on their chosen intruments.

Knowing the limits of your chosen form of expression (analogue or digtial, or both, take your pick), and knowing how to work within, or push the envelope of, these limits are where the technological creativity comes in.

I have no comments on the songwriting side of creativity, cos I'm rubbish at it.

[bryn]

Being creative has got nothing to do with your mastery of your instrument' date=' some people who I regard as highly creative are no more than average on their chosen intruments.

.[/quote']

Whilst I agree with this, I'd also suggest that skill allows said people to voice themselves in multiple ways. You could have all the talent in the world but without some degree of skill, nobody is going to know about it.

Skill and knowledge are in perfect concordance with natural talent, contrary to the beliefs of many people who see skill somehow as a dampener on creativity / enjoy dismissing 'elitist' approaches etc.

[Cloud]

This concept has become really unappealing to me upon acquiring a decent soundsystem' date=' whereby I now cherish perfection[/quote']

Isn't perfection ultimately a sterile, safe experience?

[Jim Stax]

Isn't perfection ultimately a sterile' date=' safe experience?[/quote']

Hi Cloud and get in!

Although (You knew it was coming but only becuase I like your point) originality is a word I haven't seen much of on this thread (I haven't read it all, sorry) and a word that is not inhibited by genre, ability, equipment and knowledge.

And what the heck is Bryn's point about "People don't actually know what their favourite songs are 'supposed' to sound like". What the feck does that mean?

Jim

[Jim Stax]

Isn't perfection ultimately a sterile' date=' safe experience?[/quote']

And depends what you are doing

[Swingin' Ryan]

Yeah that's what I was getting at really' date=' you have a lot of control because you're essentially playing the role of musician, sound engineer, synth programmer and producer all in one, so you have complete control over all these aspects, which gives you a lot more scope for experimentation.[/quote']

With synth programming and such like, surely you are just, at best, manipulating pre-recorded sounds. With something like an acoustic guitar, you are creating them at the source.

I like quite a lot of electronic based music, but I always think there's something slightly soulless about sounds that aren't being generated by the source instrument. I'd rather hear a grand-piano than some kind of synth-generated sample of one. I think over-reliance on electronic production and musicianship is at the very core of the 'Teletubby' musical culture you speak about. A culture where we homogenize plastic, electronic intepretations of an instrument than to hear the real thing.

Bob Dylan with an acoustic guitar and a microphone communicates more to me than anything a man with a computer could ever generate. If that makes me an inadequate conformist then so be it.

[bryn]

Isn't perfection ultimately a sterile' date=' safe experience?[/quote']

In terms of rock and jazz, I think a rough edge is cool, I sometimes find albums like Blood Sugar Sex Majik, Metallica's Black Album pretty horrible for their perfection. The Kerrang-type, pop-metal production ideal is repulsive.

However, a decent set of speakers highlight the flaws in my own production and gives me a greater appreciation of well-produced music. I can sit back and really appreciate even top forty music; I'm interested in how the music is put together.

[Jim Stax]

In terms of rock and jazz' date=' I think a rough edge is cool, I sometimes find albums like Blood Sugar Sex Majik, Metallica's Black Album pretty horrible for their perfection. The Kerrang-type, pop-metal production ideal is repulsive.

However, a decent set of speakers highlight the flaws in my own production and gives me a greater appreciation of well-produced music. I can sit back and really appreciate even top forty music; I'm interested in how the music is put together.[/quote']

Happy for you... I would like to think that any music that I would, have,could, produce works any and everywhere and not just by a a few that can bung hunners at top notch speakers... Absolute quality is rarely prevelant outwith the studio. I've had wine and am likely having my own little debate here

o_O

[bryn]

I like quite a lot of electronic based music, but I always think there's something slightly soulless about sounds that aren't being generated by the source instrument.

At times, Aphex Twin, in particular, is some of the most touching, beautiful music I have ever heard.

[bryn]

Happy for you... I would like to think that any music that I would' date=' have,could, produce works any and everywhere and not just by a a few that can bung hunners at top notch speakers... Absolute quality is rarely prevelant outwith the studio. I've had wine and am likely having my own little debate here

o_O [/quote']

I think decent sound is worth bungin' hunners at.

[Jim Stax]

I think decent sound is worth bungin' hunners at.

If you have it to bung then yup. If not then you shouldnt feel left out and a cheap bastard because a few 'sound snobs' said it sounds amazin in their ljnwdojobwdcjcuhuuhsau33333777779999922222 sound system.

[bryn]

If you have it to bung then yup. If not then you shouldnt feel left out and a cheap bastard because a few 'sound snobs' said it sounds amazin in their ljnwdojobwdcjcuhuuhsau33333777779999922222 sound system.

Disagreed. You should feel left out and stand in the corner..

[Swingin' Ryan]

At times' date=' Aphex Twin, in particular, is some of the most touching, beautiful music I have ever heard.[/quote']

I don't doubt that for a second, I'm just saying I personally don't find electronics as enjoyable as the real instruments. I'm more disputing Stripey's idea that the use of real instruments is somehow artistically sub-par to electronic instruments.