Guest tv tanned Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Wrong' date=' some people are born criminals.[/quote']A frankly disgusting statement, but then that's kind of par for the course from you. You have shown an overwhelming hypocrisy in this thread from your different responses to myself and then to Bass Cadet, who has been candid about the problems she has faced and I admire her for that.Earlier on you said:Oh yeah, rehabilitate him. Sorry, no. If your life is that far off of the rails then do everyone a favour and end it.And yet now you say:Agreed, I see the point in helping everyone create a better life for themselves by going clean and will support any agencies that help people give up the habbit and put their lives back on track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeker Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 A frankly disgusting statement' date=' but then that's kind of par for the course from you. You have shown an overwhelming hypocrisy in this thread from your different responses to myself and then to Bass Cadet, who has been candid about the problems she has faced and I admire her for that.Earlier on you said:And yet now you say:[/quote']The more disgusting thing here is your apparent lack of sympathy for those affected by drug crimes. You'd much rather help the criminal.No matter how you are brought up - some people will be criminals some people won't. Scary when you have to deal with the real workd isn't it.Yes help is good, and as I have said through out this thread - i relate the beyond help to those who have turned to a life of crime and support their drug habbit by crime.You are again - just picking holes in peoples statements but not actually contributing to the argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tv tanned Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Thats exactly what they are to me' date=' dude. Wait until your Grunnies house has been robbed by a junkie or your car's been broken into and the stereo nicked and it's hard to sympathise.You seem to have a lot of sympathy for the Prossers and Reidey junkies of this world, min.Remember these people went to the same school as us, lived literally a few streets up from me, played fitba with us and had the same opportunities as us.We find ourselves living well because we worked at making something of ourselves.They find themselves hooked on heroin, robbing houses, stealing from shops and having no job.No - one told them to become junkies. [i']They chose their own path We chose ours. If someone told you to jump into the Don, would you do it?If someone told you to try heroin would you do it?Just because junkie A and junkie B whom I know to be reprehensible exist, does not mean that junkie X and junkie Y will also be so.And please don't assume that my family has never come into contact with drug related crime Marsh, it has but that doesn't mean I think that every drug addict should be shunned by society based on the criminal activities of others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tv tanned Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 The more disgusting thing here is your apparent lack of sympathy for those affected by drug crimes. You'd much rather help the criminal.No matter how you are brought up - some people will be criminals some people won't. Scary when you have to deal with the real workd isn't it.So why don't you join me and we'll go to the Maternity Unit tomorrow and you can demonstrate your ability to spot these criminals who have just been born?Yes help is good' date=' and as I have said through out this thread - i relate the beyond help to those who have turned to a life of crime and support their drug habbit by crime.You are again - just picking holes in peoples statements but not actually contributing to the argument.[/quote']Maybe if you didn't leave such gaping holes to pick, then it wouldn't matter.If what you say is true, and that those who commit crime to feed an addiction are beyond help then why are there plenty of rehabilitated drug addicts, many of whom DID commit crimes to feed their habits, now completely off drugs, not committing crimes and living normal lives? Why weren't they beyond help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeker Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Just because junkie A and junkie B whom I know to be reprehensible exist' date=' does not mean that junkie X and junkie Y will also be so.And please don't assume that my family has never come into contact with drug related crime Marsh, it has but that doesn't mean I think that every drug addict should be shunned by society based on the criminal activities of others.[/quote']No it is you who generalise junkies. NO ONE has said shun all the junkies, we are saying shun those who have let their habit affect the lives of others.You still have not replied to my question about a junkie killing your mother, after he has had years of counselling and rehab opportunites.Marsh - you are so spot on it's untrue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tv tanned Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 You still have not replied to my question about a junkie killing your mother' date=' after he has had years of counselling and rehab opportunites.[/quote']I prefer not to think about my mother being killed, thanks all the same.If a drug addict murders someone, then they should be punished for their crime. At no point did I suggest otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeker Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 So why don't you join me and we'll go to the Maternity Unit tomorrow and you can demonstrate your ability to spot these criminals who have just been born?What kind of a ridiculous statement is that, you know exactly what i meant after i backed it up with "no matter how thy are brought up".contribute a valid argument or go back to your padded room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsh Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Just because junkie A and junkie B whom I know to be reprehensible exist' date=' does not mean that junkie X and junkie Y will also be so.And please don't assume that my family has never come into contact with drug related crime Marsh, it has but that doesn't mean I think that every drug addict should be shunned by society based on the criminal activities of others.[/quote']Sorry, I clearly don't have such a broad range of drug addicts as you have since you've obviously quit your job with the SNP and taken on your new role as a drugs counsellor.But you can only go by what you've seen. And Dyce junkies are robbers who had the same start in life as us. No - one forced it on them.Fair enough, i'll never "assume" anything again. I assume you know it's nae worth getting all Dundee United about stuff like this.That's what I think and that'll be all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsh Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 No it is you who generalise junkies. NO ONE has said shun all the junkies' date=' we are saying shun those who have let their habit affect the lives of others.You still have not replied to my question about a junkie killing your mother, after he has had years of counselling and rehab opportunites.Marsh - you are so spot on it's untrue.[/quote']So are you min.I've nothing else to say.Cheers dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tv tanned Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 What kind of a ridiculous statement is that' date=' you know exactly what i meant after i backed it up with "no matter how thy are brought up".[/quote']Yes, exactly so if it doesn't matter how someone is brought up, then they are obviously destined to be criminals from the moment they are born. Therefore you will help us all out by pointing them out at birth and we can just shoot them.contribute a valid argument or go back to your padded room.I notice you avoided answering the other question. So I will ask it again.If what you say is true, and that those who commit crime to feed an addiction are beyond help then why are there plenty of rehabilitated drug addicts, many of whom DID commit crimes to feed their habits, now completely off drugs, not committing crimes and living normal lives? Why weren't they beyond help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeker Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Yes' date=' exactly so if it doesn't matter how someone is brought up, then they are obviously destined to be criminals from the moment they are born. Therefore you will help us all out by pointing them out at birth and we can just shoot them.[/quote']Deary me... are you asking this for real? I notice you avoided answering the other question. So I will ask it again.If what you say is true, and that those who commit crime to feed an addiction are beyond help then why are there plenty of rehabilitated drug addicts, many of whom DID commit crimes to feed their habits, now completely off drugs, not committing crimes and living normal lives? Why weren't they beyond help?Avoided like you avoided my other questions so i asked again, so i will respond.You seem to have a great knowledge of the drugs.crime scene. Can you expand on the crimes committed? Petty - serious. My point all aong has been that if someone commits a crime they don't deserve rehab, I just don't see the point - they should be locked up and forced to rehab in jail as an additional burden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bass Cadet Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 I hate to break it to you Beaker but no-one ever got clean in jail - but thats probably a whole other thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tv tanned Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Deary me... are you asking this for real? You're the one who is saying that there are people who are "born criminals"You seem to have a great knowledge of the drugs.crime scene. Can you expand on the crimes committed? Petty - serious. I don't know every single criminal record of every single drug addict. I do' date=' however, have plenty of reports from NHS Grampian, Drugs Action and Grampian Police not to mention charities who deal with addicts and recovered addicts, which talk about people who used to engage in housebreaking, car theft and other forms of crime to feed addictions but are now cleaned up.My point all aong has been that if someone commits a crime they don't deserve rehab, I just don't see the point - they should be locked up and forced to rehab in jail as an additional burden.So, they don't deserve rehab (implying it is a reward) but they should receive it as a burden (implying it is a punishment) that makes hee-haw sense.Essentially you are arguing the same point I have been making all along.Drug addicts who commit crimes should be punished for their crimes.Those who go to prison should be rehabilitated both inside and upon release.Rehab should be offered to other drug addicts who have not committed crimes to feed their habits.Those are the views I have been expressing all along. You now seem to accept that rehab should be given to addicts, after having initially said that there is no hope for some of them and we should turn our backs on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeker Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 I hate to break it to you Beaker but no-one ever got clean in jail - but thats probably a whole other thread!i did think that as soon as i said it as I rememebr hearing news stories to that effect,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeker Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 People will turn into criminals no matter how they are brought up does not mean you can spot them at birth. Coming to that conclusion is purely for arguments sake.I meant forced rehab while being locked up, not charity adided rehab wasting peoples time if you are just going to go out and re-offend. NO matter how much help some people get they will reject it and continue a life of crime as it is easier than working for a living.there is no hope for some addicts i firmly belive some should just be forgotten about and dealt with by extreme measures i never said all - like i said before not shunning ALL addicts. As long as thjey only effect their own lives good luck to them. you are becoming repetitive now and seem to try and turn the argument round to whichever point of view you can say is your own. You bore me with you sanctimonious drivel. enjoy your fluffy reality. I only hope you are never confronted by a re-offending junkie who takes away your human rights looking for his next fix. your opinion would change then. as it has many posters on this forum.slater.You're the one who is saying that there are people who are "born criminals"I don't know every single criminal record of every single drug addict. I do' date=' however, have plenty of reports from NHS Grampian, Drugs Action and Grampian Police not to mention charities who deal with addicts and recovered addicts, which talk about people who used to engage in housebreaking, car theft and other forms of crime to feed addictions but are now cleaned up.So, they don't deserve rehab (implying it is a reward) but they should receive it as a burden (implying it is a punishment) that makes hee-haw sense.Essentially you are arguing the same point I have been making all along.Drug addicts who commit crimes should be punished for their crimes.Those who go to prison should be rehabilitated both inside and upon release.Rehab should be offered to other drug addicts who have not committed crimes to feed their habits.Those are the views I have been expressing all along. You now seem to accept that rehab should be given to addicts, after having initially said that there is no hope for some of them and we should turn our backs on them.[/quote'] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeC Posted March 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 I think that if you removed all the illegal drugs from the market' date=' there would be a greater black market for prescription painkillers and the like. I think if someone wants to get high and forget then they will find a way - it's human nature. I personally think that alcoholism is a far bigger problem and think how many of those there would be without drugs! Addiction can be a choice. An addict doesn't have nae problems when they have drugs - thats the attraction - not what the drugs make you feel like.[/quote']I'm not sure what you are saying....are you saying that because there are people out there (lets call them "the minority") who actually believe that by taking large quantities of either a legal (alcohol or prescription drugs) or illegal (class a/b/c drugs) substance that they can avoid their problems even for a short time and that others (lets call them "the majority") should have to put up with the shit that ensues?I think you hit the nail on the head when you said...."I think if someone wants to get high and forget then they will find a way" I think "the majority" look to "get high" to relax, to chill out, to have fun....when people require it to "forget" they need to seek help not take drugs.It never ceases to amaze me that the people who are regarded as socially deprived always seem to have money to buy fags, special brew, and dope but cant afford carpets, cookers, school clothes for their kids or food.....now why is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tv tanned Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 well, clearly i'm scum of the earth for daring to hold the views i hold.ho hum... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeker Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 back on topic though, i think more funding should be given at the root to avoid the end product discussed in detail here. Eliminate the root as opposed to dealing with the effects.How on earth junkies can be deemed fit parents is unbelieveble. Maybe at that young an age foster homes may be ideal for a period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bass Cadet Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 It all boils down to motivation. In prison there is no real hope until you're free again and a junkie needs a little hope for the future in order to kick the habit. Once a junkie want's top give up - it isn't as hard as you would think. Thats what they need - something to look forward to and a bit of love and compassion (call me a hippy if you like but you know I'm talking sense) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeker Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 It never ceases to amaze me that the people who are regarded as socially deprived always seem to have money to buy fags' date=' special brew, and dope but cant afford carpets, cookers, school clothes for their kids or food.....now why is that?[/quote']Exactly, take union street as an example. How many homeless joe's or janes do you see with mobile phones and fags. Whats that about? If i ever find the bastards who give dogs to these people i'll kick them in the scroats!. on a plus side, i bet they get lots of walks?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bass Cadet Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 I'm not sure what you are saying....are you saying that because there are people out there (lets call them "the minority") who actually believe that by taking large quantities of either a legal (alcohol or prescription drugs) or illegal (class a/b/c drugs) substance that they can avoid their problems even for a short time and that others (lets call them "the majority") should have to put up with the shit that ensues?I think you hit the nail on the head when you said...."I think if someone wants to get high and forget then they will find a way" I think "the majority" look to "get high" to relax' date=' to chill out, to have fun....when people require it to "forget" they need to seek help not take drugs.It never ceases to amaze me that the people who are regarded as socially deprived always seem to have money to buy fags, special brew, and dope but cant afford carpets, cookers, school clothes for their kids or food.....now why is that?[/quote']Lol.... I dunno, habit of a lifetime I guess.Edit - silly me, it's because they are addicted and thats more important than anything to them - not pretty no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delly Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Coming from Tillydrone' date=' the only problems I ever had living there were the amount of junkies making everyones life a misery....and I'm on the few people on this board who even know what the words social deprivation mean. You'll find no track marks on my arm.....[/quote']Keilan I can't beleive how wrong you are, the fact that we grew up amongst so many junkies tells you something about the area we lived in, come on it is the deprived areas that have the most problems if you can't see the conection then im sorry you need to open your eyes a little more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tv tanned Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 back on topic though' date=' i think more funding should be given at the root to avoid the end product discussed in detail here. Eliminate the root as opposed to dealing with the effects.How on earth junkies can be deemed fit parents is unbelieveble. Maybe at that young an age foster homes may be ideal for a period.[/quote']which is why I reserve more of my hatred for the people who peddle this sort of filth than those who are addicted. Some addicts are scum, we all know that. Some need to be helped. There isn't a one-size fits all solution.I agree with your point above. Grampian has the highest number of babies born with a drug addiction in the whole of Scotland.having read your profile, it is clear we knew each other a while back as your brother was in my training squad at Aberdeen AAC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeker Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 It all boils down to motivation. In prison there is no real hope until you're free again and a junkie needs a little hope for the future in order to kick the habit. Once a junkie want's top give up - it isn't as hard as you would think. Thats what they need - something to look forward to and a bit of love and compassion (call me a hippy if you like but you know I'm talking sense)If you take away the drugs, would people with no motivation still turn to crime, them with motivation like 'normal' people get on with thier lives and do the 9 to 5 thing.I think crime and drugs go hand in hand and not drugs and crime. if you see what i mean. Crime leads to drugs , drugs does not necessarily lead to crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeC Posted March 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Lol.... I dunno' date=' habit of a lifetime I guess.Edit - silly me, it's because they are addicted and thats more important than anything to them - not pretty no.[/quote']I'm sorry but your response didnt seem to relate to my post at all....am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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