Jump to content
aberdeen-music

How many have to die?


GraemeC

Recommended Posts

Guest tv tanned
Your "holier than thou" approach really gets under my skin. No-one is 'declassifying' anyone. We just believe that if someone is stupid enough to get so far into drugs they end up on the street or turn to crime they do not deserve the same human rights we all enjoy.

Neubeatz has it spot on with the personality traits of addicts. It's merely an excuse to go on crime spree's and avoid having to work for their paper.

I don't usually wish misfortune on people, in your case I am becoming tempted to make an exception.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 118
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Guest Neubeatz
Your "holier than thou" approach really gets under my skin. No-one is 'declassifying' anyone. We just believe that if someone is stupid enough to get so far into drugs they end up on the street or turn to crime they do not deserve the same human rights we all enjoy.

Neubeatz has it spot on with the personality traits of addicts. It's merely an excuse to go on crime spree's and avoid having to work for their paper.

Sorry' date=' but I dont support that view, all I said that was [b']personality is a greater factor in determining the level of odds of becoming an addict.

You are adding your own view there aswell beeker :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never said it wasn't.

Many people have "addiction" problems' date=' are you suggesting that it is simply coincidence that these addiction problems concentrate themselves in areas with low incomes and high deprivation?[/quote']

It takes a certain type of person to become an addict, i'm sure there are just as many addicts in the upper classes as they can afford their habbit. It is just highlighted more in deprived areas due to the people who cannot afford to support their habbit resorting to crime to fund it.

Addicts bug the fuck out of me when they commit crimes and effect other peoples lives and blame it on drugs - regardless of the social class they belong to.

If a junkie drove a car into your mother and said - oh sorry i was on heroin at the time and was driving away from someone's house i'd just burgled and stabbed. Would you still send them to rehab and forgive and forget?...

like fuck you would.

Or if a junkie begging in the stret jabbed you with a needle and gave you the virus, would you still offer him a lift to a Drugs Action centre? No, you wouldn't. You'd want to see this piece of shit low-life get whats coming to them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest tv tanned
I think in this day and age it has more to do with where the council house junkies.....

To a degree I would agree with you. The problem then recycles itself as dealers move in and prey on kids in these areas which are bereft of facilities etc. It is a vicious cycle.

I just cannot fathom why in a nation which could have so much wealth to go around we allow poverty to continue. The statistics read that 1 in every 4 children in Scotland lives in poverty.

Our rehab services are also grotesquely under-resourced as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To a degree I would agree with you. The problem then recycles itself as dealers move in and prey on kids in these areas which are bereft of facilities etc. It is a vicious cycle.

I just cannot fathom why in a nation which could have so much wealth to go around we allow poverty to continue. The statistics read that 1 in every 4 children in Scotland lives in poverty.

Our rehab services are also grotesquely under-resourced as well.

Lies, damn Lies and statistics.

that one child may still have a happy full life. It may not include the latest Jordan's or X box. But full none the less. I'd have more sympathy for a child taken into a foster home (the idea being that they are no longer in poverty).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK' date=' I don't think calling someone a f'ing this or f'ing that is constructive. Hence why I don't do it.

Basically the problem here is that people seem to be blaming addicts for the situation they find themselves in.

While in some cases that may be true, I think it is far more reprehensible that there are dealers and drug barons out there peddling these drugs to them.

Equally most of these people tend to live in severely deprived areas, the trends cannot be ignored.

We have to pull these people out of the rut that they have ended up in.[/quote']

I have read the whole "poor unfortunates" "its societies fault" excuses for decades, that whole argument falls apart when people in the public eye and in a position to influence the young like Dougherty, Slash, Keith Richard, Joe Perry and the rest of Aerosmith, Clapton, Joplin, Hendrix, Keith Moon, etc, etc, etc, etc, make it plain that social deprivation and poverty are not the root cause.

I would introduce the death penalty for anyone selling class A drugs....get the shit off the streets and abolish methadone that would soon "pull these people out of the rut that they have ended up in"

Oh and Hog.... I was once a firm believer that legalizing ALL drugs would be the way forward....removing the dealers etc, but I have changed my opinion, as a previous poster pointed out it does leave the system open to severe abuse.

The major problem is that the problem nor the solution is ever going to be black and white, so eliminating the source is the only way, and of course that in itself causes huge problems......what a fucking nightmare.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thought I'd chuck my 2 cents worth in. I work in the Dr's surgery in woodside and the doctors here prescribe methadone. I don't see what good it does, replacing one addiction for an equally dangerous addiction seems stupid. There is another detox programme available which involves a reducing dose of Dihydracodiene, Temazepam & Zopiclone over 6 weeks. It seems to work ok but the drug using clients are very much in diffrent groups, the ones who want to give up, the ones who need something to take the edge off the craving till they next score, and the ones who want the meds to sell so they can score. The latter is not such a problem with daily dispense becoming an ever more popular prescribing practice.

I am not from a deprived area but I found myself on smack because, believe it or not, it was a better situation than the one I was in. I've been clean for a good few years now although I still get the cravings sometimes when things are tough. I pay my taxes, and I've never hurt anyone but myself so whats with all the 'kill all the junkies' talk. Life is a journey of self improvement but some of us start lower down the chain than others and it takes us a bit longer to get there.

I'd also like to point out that I live in the Multi's of Tillydrone and although you see junkies going about, I've never had any trouble/hassle from anyone in the 3 years I've been there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest tv tanned

there's a problem here beeker.

I am not suggesting the only cause is poverty, I am suggesting it is a factor. You are dismissing this and simply suggesting that the only reason people become drug addicts is because they are weak. You then cite Darwin (?) as the basis for your theory.

Undoubtedly there are many addicts who either come from a higher social class, or who are weak as you ascribe.

Your stereotyping of every drug addict as being beyond help and compassion belies the fact that society has many examples of reformed addicts who have been rehabilitated and now lead normal lives without slipping back into addiction.

If your prognosis was correct, nobody would ever escape from addiction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To a degree I would agree with you. The problem then recycles itself as dealers move in and prey on kids in these areas which are bereft of facilities etc. It is a vicious cycle.

I just cannot fathom why in a nation which could have so much wealth to go around we allow poverty to continue. The statistics read that 1 in every 4 children in Scotland lives in poverty.

Our rehab services are also grotesquely under-resourced as well.

Facilities?!... get a ball and fuck off to the park. Didn't do me any harm when i was a kid. Still the same lack of facilities around my area and me and all my friends managed to entertain ourselves without getting into too much trouble and certainly not drugs.

If some hard looking cunt approached me as a kid and said aye - fancy some drugs like min. Only a complete fucking IDIOT would say yes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest tv tanned
I have read the whole "poor unfortunates" "its societies fault" excuses for decades' date=' that whole argument falls apart when people in the public eye and in a position to influence the young like Dougherty, Slash, Keith Richard, Joe Perry and the rest of Aerosmith, Clapton, Joplin, Hendrix, Keith Moon, etc, etc, etc, etc, make it plain that social deprivation and poverty are not the root cause.

I would introduce the death penalty for anyone selling class A drugs....get the shit off the streets and abolish methadone that would soon "pull these people out of the rut that they have ended up in" [/quote']

1. People who manufacture and peddle drugs are despicable and deserve to be locked up forever to rot.

2. I am not trying to say every drug addict comes from a deprived background. It cannot be so readily dismissed as an element towards drug use. Nowhere have I suggested it is the only cause.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

there's a problem here beeker.

I am not suggesting the only cause is poverty' date=' I am suggesting it is a factor. You are dismissing this and simply suggesting that the only reason people become drug addicts is because they are weak. You then cite Darwin (?) as the basis for your theory.

Undoubtedly there are many addicts who either come from a higher social class, or who are weak as you ascribe.

Your stereotyping of every drug addict as being beyond help and compassion belies the fact that society has many examples of reformed addicts who have been rehabilitated and now lead normal lives without slipping back into addiction.

If your prognosis was correct, nobody would ever escape from addiction.[/quote']

I have a problem with those who turn to crime as indicated by exapmples throughout this thread. You seem to class every addict the same whether or not they harm others or just themselves. If someone has an addiction yeah, help them by all means. When they harm other people and obviously don't want to give up by turning to crime they shoul dbe locked up for their crimes - rehab in there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest tv tanned
Facilities?!... get a ball and fuck off to the park. Didn't do me any harm when i was a kid. Still the same lack of facilities around my area and me and all my friends managed to entertain ourselves without getting into too much trouble and certainly not drugs.

If some hard looking cunt approached me as a kid and said aye - fancy some drugs like min. Only a complete fucking IDIOT would say yes.

You still don't seem to have grasped the concept that not everyone in these circumstances will become a drug addict.

This ties into Neaubeatz' point about personality.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well done for kicking the habit!. Glad it didn't lead you into crime.

Thought I'd chuck my 2 cents worth in. I work in the Dr's surgery in woodside and the doctors here prescribe methadone. I don't see what good it does' date=' replacing one addiction for an equally dangerous addiction seems stupid. There is another detox programme available which involves a reducing dose of Dihydracodiene, Temazepam & Zopiclone over 6 weeks. It seems to work ok but the drug using clients are very much in diffrent groups, the ones who want to give up, the ones who need something to take the edge off the craving till they next score, and the ones who want the meds to sell so they can score. The latter is not such a problem with daily dispense becoming an ever more popular prescribing practice.

I am not from a deprived area but I found myself on smack because, believe it or not, it was a better situation than the one I was in. I've been clean for a good few years now although I still get the cravings sometimes when things are tough. I pay my taxes, and I've never hurt anyone but myself so whats with all the 'kill all the junkies' talk. Life is a journey of self improvement but some of us start lower down the chain than others and it takes us a bit longer to get there.

I'd also like to point out that I live in the Multi's of Tillydrone and although you see junkies going about, I've never had any trouble/hassle from anyone in the 3 years I've been there.[/quote']

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest tv tanned
I have a problem with those who turn to crime as indicated by exapmples throughout this thread. You seem to class every addict the same whether or not they harm others or just themselves. If someone has an addiction yeah' date=' help them by all means. When they harm other people and obviously don't want to give up by turning to crime they shoul dbe locked up for their crimes - rehab in there.[/quote']

You really do have trouble reading the things I say and registering them don't you? I'll make it simple for you. I'd draw pictures as well but my art was never great.

1. Not all drug addicts are the same, you think they are all weak-minded fools, I suggest that there may be some who are reprehensible but there are many who are not.

2. I don't suggest, and never have done, that they should not be jailed for their crimes if they commit any. Simple fact of the matter is that rehab in prisons is virtually non-existant and there is not enough done to ensure rehab when they are released. They are allowed to fall right back in with the same crowd and the cycle continues.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

eliminating the source is the only way.

I think that if you removed all the illegal drugs from the market, there would be a greater black market for prescription painkillers and the like. I think if someone wants to get high and forget then they will find a way - it's human nature. I personally think that alcoholism is a far bigger problem and think how many of those there would be without drugs!

Addiction can be a choice. An addict doesn't have nae problems when they have drugs - thats the attraction - not what the drugs make you feel like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You still don't seem to have grasped the concept that not everyone in these circumstances will become a drug addict.

This ties into Neaubeatz' point about personality.

I agreed with his point on personality. just exactly what are you trying to point out? For the most part you just seem to pick up on things people say and try to pick holes in it.

You want to give help to everyone and make the world all fluffy and nice.

Newsflash - it's never going to be like that. there will still be people who commit crimes and blame it on the drugs addiction they have. Some people are beyond help - you dont seem to agree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest tv tanned
Newsflash - it's never going to be like that. there will still be people who commit crimes and blame it on the drugs addiction they have. Some people are beyond help - you dont seem to agree.

I tend to think that giving up on people is a sign of weakness, a personality trait which you seem to abhor...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that if you removed all the illegal drugs from the market' date=' there would be a greater black market for prescription painkillers and the like. I think if someone wants to get high and forget then they will find a way - it's human nature. I personally think that alcoholism is a far bigger problem and think how many of those there would be without drugs!

Addiction can be a choice. An addict doesn't have nae problems when they have drugs - thats the attraction - not what the drugs make you feel like.[/quote']

Agreed, I see the point in helping everyone create a better life for themselves by going clean and will support any agencies that help people give up the habbit and put their lives back on track.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tend to think that giving up is a sign of weakness' date=' a personality trait which you seem to abhor...[/quote']

i tend to think that flogging a dead horse is a waste of time and money. Which could be better spend helping those who find themselves in Bass cadets situation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or is every drug addict just scum to you?

Thats exactly what they are to me' date=' dude. Wait until your Grunnies house has been robbed by a junkie or your car's been broken into and the stereo nicked and it's hard to sympathise.

You seem to have a lot of sympathy for the Prossers and Reidey junkies of this world, min.

Remember these people went to the same school as us, lived literally a few streets up from me, played fitba with us and had the same opportunities as us.

We find ourselves living well because we worked at making something of ourselves.

They find themselves hooked on heroin, robbing houses, stealing from shops and having no job.

No - one told them to become junkies. [i']They chose their own path. We chose ours.

If someone told you to jump into the Don, would you do it?

If someone told you to try heroin would you do it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...