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Smoke free pubs


GraemeC

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Guest bluesxman

My favourite smoking ban event is that they went to great pains to erect a bus shelter type structure in my work's car park for the poor wee smokers to get some protection from the elements then removed it only a few months later, as apparently smoking within a bus shelter is now forbidden due to being an enclosed space. The fact it wasn't actually an official bus shelter but specifically for smokers in the first place obviously holds no ground, fabulous waste of time and money.

All the smokers now stand smoking on the blank site of the missing shelter, just like the zombies in the shopping mall in Dawn Of The Dead unconsciously and habitually returning to the place they know....

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My favourite smoking ban event is that they went to great pains to erect a bus shelter type structure in my work's car park for the poor wee smokers to get some protection from the elements then removed it only a few months later' date=' as apparently smoking within a bus shelter is now forbidden due to being an enclosed space. The fact it wasn't actually an official bus shelter but specifically for smokers in the first place obviously holds no ground, fabulous waste of time and money.

All the smokers now stand smoking on the blank site of the missing shelter, just like the zombies in the shopping mall in Dawn Of The Dead unconsciously and habitually returning to the place they know....[/quote']

ha, that's amazing. :D

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well you're obviously drinking in the wrong pubs.

i argued with the guy cause i'm sure it's illegal to refuse to give out water but to no avail.

Obviously' date=' except that you don't find that out till they refuse you. As for why they refuse, of the places that gave a reason, [b']none of them gave me any reason to doubt that the culture/status of booze goes far too deep in some people & yes, I'm well aware that there is no financial advantage - most pubs make more off soft drinks & indeed, many are on mixer deals/promotions with the suppliers which mean that they often get soft drinks for next to nothing at all.

Surprisingly, it is not illegal to refuse water but many (but not all) licencing boards have put this requirement it in their standard licence conditions instead. I can't remember if they have here.

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Nonsense.

Any individual has the capacity for violence' date=' regardless of alcohol intake.

It is impossible to contribute to passive smoking if you don't smoke.

The two are simply not comparable.[/quote']

Whilst I'd agree that booze won't change basic nature for most people. Come-on! You can't deny that drinking contributes greatly to impared judgement & plain-old stupidity. Which often results in some form of harm to the drinker or others & the direct influence of alcohol on violent crime, family neglect & a whole load of social problems is pretty well established I'd say.

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Alcohol does not directly make a person more violent -

However' date=' blowing smoke in someone's face is more likely to cause them to develop lung cancer than if you didn't do it.

can anyone provide any positive aspects that smoking in enclosed public spaces provides for other people?[/quote']

See above. The something like 20% of all recorded violent crime (alone!) directly attributable to alcohol would kind of make a mockery of your claim? Never mind the other forms of potential harm it can cause. I don't think that even the most hysterical passive smoking argument came anywhere near that level of risk?

Blowing smoke in someone's face is not the issue, nor is smoking, active or passive, the sole cause of lung cancer. I'm not arguing for a return to choking smoke-holes either. Rather, I'm agenst a fundamentally discriminatory, fucked-up & ill-considered bit of legislation that will do nobody any favours in the long run.

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Guest bluesxman
See above. The something like 20% of all recorded violent crime (alone!) directly attributable to alcohol would kind of make a mockery of your claim?

How can violence be directly attributable to alcohol? How can you possibly prove the only reason some nutcase beat someone up was because they were drunk? That may well be the excuse they use but it can't possibly be proven.

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Maybe not but it makes it much more likley to kick-off. Anyway, being beaten-up is only one aspect of the possible harm.

As for assessing it, ask thise who look into these things. FWIW, my time working with troubled-kids turned-up many instances where something negative happened that would probably have not if one or other of the parties involved had not been drinking. It may not have been the direct cause (altho it often was!) but very often it was unquestionably the catalyst. As for plain-old neglect, we had more children of alcoholics on our books than any other form of addiction.

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"alcohol is just as bad" was used.

I'd contend that it is considerably worse. What are the UK figures? Somewhere between 300 & 15,000 depending on whose case against passive smoking you choose to believe, compared to a minimum 250,000 secondary sufferers of alcohol.

I'd say that the real problem is being avoided?

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The difference is that all smoked in a pub were directly harming others around them. It is only a minority of drinkers who end up causing violence as a result. So there isn't such a great case for restricting the liberty of drinkers vs smokers where the threat is guarenteed. It is already illegal to sell alchohol to a drunk person, it just isn't widely enforced.

I would be in favour of a clamp down on binge drinking and the 'anti social' behaviour it is accocaited with (providing I also agreed with the means used). Just becuase I approve of a smoking ban dosen't mean I am in favour of binge drinking.

There has deffiantely been a huge improvement in the quality of air in pubs since the ban. Most still smell weird and many noticibly smell of smoke but it isn't nearly as bad as before. I can sometimes even now wear clothes again, without washing them after going out.

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I would be in favour of a clamp down on binge drinking and the 'anti social' behaviour it is accocaited with (providing I also agreed with the means used). Just becuase I approve of a smoking ban dosen't mean I am in favour of binge drinking.

Out of interest, how would you propose to limit binge drinking without infringing upon liberties?

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The difference is that all smoked in a pub were directly harming others around them.

It is only a minority of drinkers who end up causing violence as a result. So there isn't such a great case for restricting the liberty of drinkers vs smokers where

That remains contentious' date=' at best.

It isn't just drunken violence tho. Alcohol has [b']all sorts of other ways of harming.

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Out of interest' date=' how would you propose to limit binge drinking without infringing upon liberties?[/quote']

This is a highly complex issue. Government can only (realisticly) do so much to change the behaviour of society. Perhaps enforcing the 'no selling to drunks' law be a good start. The effects of binge drinking, such as street violence could also be more easily controlled by de-regulating opening hours of pubs and clubs. The worse violence currently appears to be just after closing time. The Police are unable to deal with the huge influx of people onto the streets all at once. If closing times were staggered, this may help.

Taking alchohol is mostly a personal choice. Smoking should be but the nature of the way it's done means that the people around you also end up smoking your cigerettes, through choice or otherwise.

Of course, the argument against this comparison is that a drunk could then go and attack someone that they wouldn't when sober. Most people do not get violent when drunk, only a few do and it would be wrong to restrict the liberty of society as a whole, as a results of the actions of a small minority. Assault is already a crime, some just choose not to obey the law. There has only recently became legal restrictions on where you can harm people with cigerette smoke and this law has been widespreadly obeyed...

It is always best if people act in decency without being forced to do so by the law but sometimes change wont take place unless government legislates. Smokers could have gone outside to smoke voluntarily but the vast majority chose not to. I applaud any who previously did so voluntarily.

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You should stop getting annoyed at people when you're out cause you'll always be bitter and never truly enjoy yourself. You're intitled to your overweight and unhealthy lifestyle aswell' date=' G... :up:[/quote']

I dont get annoyed at people when I'm out, i'm not bitter and what do you know of my lifestyle?

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And it dosen't have a ventilation system more than capable of keeping it cool & smoke free? That would be a surprising oversight considering that the planners here have insisted on just such kit being installed in new licenced places for the last 20-odd years.

Of course' date=' FTM, there is no obligation to actually use it & IMO, far too many licencees here subscribed to the "hot, smoky & sweaty, sells more drink" school of thought & judging by the stink in some pubs where I know they have systems capable of handling it, they still do! :([/quote']

What are you on about?....i'm refering to outside the venue.

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more than a few places flatly refused to serve me or asked me to leave because I'd had the temerity to order a soft drink.

What utter tosh.....

I'm sure someone will put me straight if I'm wrong here but I believe pubs make more profit on soft drinks than they do on alchol.....

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What utter tosh.....

I'm sure someone will put me straight if I'm wrong here but I believe pubs make more profit on soft drinks than they do on alchol.....

Then you are simply talking out of your arse!

Yes' date=' they do indeed & that is just another of the just plain daft things about any place so caught-up in the "you gotta have a drink" sort of attitude. :( Also, as I said earlier, it has not happened here for a while, thankfully. :)

What are you on about?....i'm refering to outside the venue.

If it is outside, then you really do sound a bit too precious by half! :finger::)

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What utter tosh.....

I'm sure someone will put me straight if I'm wrong here but I believe pubs make more profit on soft drinks than they do on alchol.....

I don't think so. The percentage mark-up on soft dinks is generally higher (which I think may be what you mean), but the retail price is generally lower.

Even if the profit per unit is higher, you're just not going to shift as much units.

Unless of course people start binging on OJ, or soda water and lime.

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