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Integration or Isolation?


Cloud
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Okay, a simple question.

Should people with special needs be integrated into mainstream society with resources provided for them to achieve that aim, regardless of their needs. Or should they be isolated from mainstream society with resources spent to develop them in isolation from the outside world?

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Guest tv tanned

You cannot have a one-size fits all policy, you have to tailor the individual child's education according to his/her needs.

A blanket policy of integration/isolation only would be silly.

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Individuals with special needs have the same human rights as the rest of us and should be given appropriate care and support suited to their needs in order to live a fulfilling and productive life. In some cases that involves giving them healthcare and education in specialist units' date=' while others can be part of the "mainstream". It's pointless trying to group all disabled people into the same category, as they all have specific needs and challenges, and the best way to meet those challenges is to assess them on a case by case basis.[/quote']

exactly, this is one of the stupidest threads cloud has ever done. how can you think it's that simple? care for those with special needs can only be effective when it's tailored individually. the clues in the term special needs. they don't have general needs or group 1 or group 2 needs but they each have individual special needs. integration may work for some and isolation(a horrid term which has no relevence to the institutions you're insinuating anyway) may work for others. for some a mixture may also help, for instance living in a residential care complex like camphill and working part-time in a local shop as well.

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exactly' date=' this is one of the stupidest threads cloud has ever done. how can you think it's that simple? [/quote']

It's not that simple, I was curious as to what people thought about the subject. Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to be pushed towards one or the other - witness for example ACC closing down the schools for people with "special"needs (I hate that term, is there a better one to use?) and integrating them into mainstream schooling, without consideration for the people affected.

I think it's a sad reflection on modern society that people get grouped at all, when it's accepted that people are individuals and should be catered for accordingly.

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It's not that simple' date=' I was curious as to what people thought about the subject. Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to be pushed towards one or the other - witness for example ACC closing down the schools for people with "special"needs (I hate that term, is there a better one to use?) and integrating them into mainstream schooling, without consideration for the people affected.

I think it's a sad reflection on modern society that people get grouped at all, when it's accepted that people are individuals and should be catered for accordingly.[/quote']

People with special needs won't improve through being isolated with people in the same situation-it does not maximise their capacity to learn. They need to meet and speak to people who are different from them. It will make them open up to new things which will inturn improve their behaviour.

Of course monitoring of their progress should still be implemented.

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Guest tv tanned
People with special needs won't improve through being isolated with people in the same situation-it does not maximise their capacity to learn. They need to meet and speak to people who are different from them. It will make them open up to new things which will inturn improve their behaviour.

Of course monitoring of their progress should still be implemented.

Interesting, because there are plenty of examples of children who actually experience regression when placed in mainstream education.

I reiterate, you cannot have a one-size fits all policy on this.

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Okay' date=' a simple question.

Should people with special needs be integrated into mainstream society with resources provided for them to achieve that aim, regardless of their needs. Or should they be isolated from mainstream society with resources spent to develop them in isolation from the outside world?[/quote']

Id be interested to know what you consider special needs? Im also interested to know why you would post such a thread? It seems odd that you are suggesting a process of stigmatization? What a silly and pointless thread

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Id be interested to know what you consider special needs? Im also interested to know why you would post such a thread? It seems odd that you are suggesting a process of stigmatization? What a silly and pointless thread

I can't define it, because I struggle with the definition myself. Does someone have special needs if they simply need a slight adjustment from "the norm", or is there a cut off point for such a definition? Am I considered special needs because of a tendacy to come down with crippling migraines and a dodgy arm/wrist that stops me from writing too much? I wouldn't say so, but other people consider it to be so, especially as it means slight adjustments in every day life in order to do things that other people do (read : lots of painkillers at times and getting someone else to do the writing).

Sadly, I get the impression that despite all the noises about equality and integration, if it involves hassle to accomodate them, then it's discouraged as much as possible. Aberdeen University is a prime case of that. :down:

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should there be special schools for artists to go to, how about lawyers, should they all sit the same exams, and learn the same things ?...

Special needs is not a bad term, as the people with "special needs" require more, and places like camphill can provide that.

the "us Vs THem" argument is pretty bad, that's where the segregation resides, not in communities, in little enclaves (the doors are always open, if you've ever been), it's the attitudes of people that need to change, not the places people learn / live / work etc.

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In my opinion, the term "special needs" is a much overused and pretty blanket term, which could probably apply to every user of these boards.

I have to wear glasses when using a computer, and I am allergic to zinc oxide plasters, so have to use micropore surgical tape for any cuts, etc. Therefore, I have special needs.

I work in further education and my wife works in a school for children with Emotional and Behavioural difficulties, and in both our workplaces, integration into the mainstream is the current educational trend.

And it doesn't work (again, in my opinion). Try and integrate someone with Emotional and Behavioural difficulties into a mainstream class (either at school or college), and in the vast majority of cases they will quickly be excluded. Whilst they are in a mainstream class, their behaviour will cause the teacher to spend more time dealing with them, allowing less time to spend on the rest of the (already massive, but that's a different topic) class. However, put them in a different environment with much smaller classes, and additional staff support and (in some cases) they do much better - i.e, they leave school with at least a couple of standard grades.

Integrating someone with specific learning difficulties into a mainstream class is equally hard. If the person has mild learning difficulties, then they may be able to cope with the class work, but often only with a lot of additional help - back to the point about less time for the rest of the class. If the person has severe learning difficulties then they most probably couldn't cope with the subject matter and the speed which the rest of the class progress.

The whole point of camphill is that (as far as I understand it) it is a COMMUNITY - that means people living together - some with mild learning difficulties, some with severe learning difficulties, some with autism and some with no "special needs". People working together. Camphill isn't a prison - the residents of camphill are free to leave and travel into town, just the same as you and I. However, there are those who are not able to do so unaccompanied, because they are unable to remember how to get back home. There are also those who would never want to go into a busier environment because they wouldn't be able to cope.

In the other thread about the bypass which sparked this particular thread, Cloud asked (in his first post)

" Why couldn't Camphill move out into the country, up in the mountains where the land is utterly worthless and where their quality of life is likely to be far higher than in the city centre?"

A centre such as Camphill does require staff, and being where it is makes it an attractive place to work. Move to somewhere "up in the mountains where the land is utterly worthless" would make it virtually impossible to recruit and/or retain staff. And if the land was worthless then they wouldn't be able to run a farm, as they do at the moment.

In my view, Camphill (and many other such organisations and establishments) isn't about integration or isolation - it's simply a different way for different people to live and learn.

A bit of a long-winded ramble, but my tuppenceworth.

Regards

Flossie

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Explain?

There's not that much to explain, basically, because of my dodgy arm being prone to swelling and stuff, I had to get a notetaker for lectures. But of course, they made it as awkward as possible, with constant attempts by my tutor to get me to save money on the notetaker, along with problems with the notetaker herself (inept twat, camie knows all about this). Then when the migraines started kicking in (predictable), they refused to have any consideration for them, despite it being put down on the form that I suffered from them - so they knew the problems in advance, and had medical notes in their possession waaaaay before starting, so they had no excuse for their attitude towards it all. Quite sadly, they talked the talk as far as catering for it, but they didn't walk the walk.

The final straw was being told "you're a burden and you're costing us money" by a lecturer who will remain nameless.

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Every person should be judged individually not as one group. My brother has severe special needs and i think he has the right to live as a part of society not on it's fringe. It's a very complex situation though.

I think this thread is a bit silly and is asking a question about a situation that alot of people will not fully understand.

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A centre such as Camphill does require staff' date=' and being where it is makes it an attractive place to work. Move to somewhere "up in the mountains where the land is utterly worthless" would make it virtually impossible to recruit and/or retain staff. And if the land was worthless then they wouldn't be able to run a farm, as they do at the moment.

[/quote']

Since the Islands (Hebrides) are paying through the nose for locums, because they can't get full-time doctors to stay there, I'd say this was a valid point.

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There's not that much to explain' date=' basically, because of my dodgy arm being prone to swelling and stuff, I had to get a notetaker for lectures. But of course, they made it as awkward as possible, with constant attempts by my tutor to get me to save money on the notetaker, along with problems with the notetaker herself (inept twat, camie knows all about this). Then when the migraines started kicking in (predictable), they refused to have any consideration for them, despite it being put down on the form that I suffered from them - so they knew the problems in advance, and had medical notes in their possession waaaaay before starting, so they had no excuse for their attitude towards it all. Quite sadly, they talked the talk as far as catering for it, but they didn't walk the walk.

The final straw was being told "you're a burden and you're costing us money" by a lecturer who will remain nameless.[/quote']

Okay, I was just interested as I do a bit of student support things like notetaking for extra cash- in my experience there's a lot of bending over backwards to try and accomodate certain people who often don't reciprocate by putting in any effort themselves, and end up getting away with practically having everything done for them when it is simply not necessary.

Also, from my experience of tutoring, tutors and lecturers have no say at all about things like that- all they get is a list of students entitled to some kind of support / allowance, which is often very vague as to what allowances, and don't get to know what is 'wrong' with such students unless the student decides to broadcast it themselves. I'd be interested to know what these attempts by your tutor to save money consisted in, and in what department, because in my experience these things tend to get dictated by Student Support.

If a notetaker is a twat, you can also privately request a change.

I am very surprised by the quote, too- with all the regulations in place (there are a lot) such a person would end up in hot shit if you'd reported that.

I'm not disputing what you're saying, it's just that my experience of student support at AU, although not positive, is negative in a different way from yours.

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My son has autisim. He's nearly five and will be starting primary school next summer. I'm of the opinion that he'll do better in a Language Unit. This is a small class, attached to a mainstream school, for children with mild/moderate special needs. A kind of 'halfway house' between special school and mainstream school. Some are geared towards autistic children, some are more general special needs. The language unit is their 'base', depending on the needs of each child. The aim is to fully intergrate the child into the mainstream primary at their own pace, while recognising and providing the extra help the child requires. A teacher of a mainstream class, in charge of 30 or so children, all with their own needs, cannot, imho, provide adequatly for my son, who needs individual specialist help.

The government line is 'put the child in mainstream school without help' (cheaper). Every year without fail I have to fight to get my son the help he needs. Every year I'm patronised and my opinions belittled by the professionals. I'm only his mother, what would I know about him? These people decide my son's future, and they've never even met him. The Educational Psychologist I'm dealing with this time round asked me 'Mind if I stick my head in the door of his classroom and get a look at him? It's always nice to put a face to a name.'

If I'm lucky enough to win him a place in a language unit this year, next year I'll have to fight to keep him in it, as places are constantly reviewed. This leads to autistic children (who desperately need routine) being shifted about from pillar to post, often losing out on the help they deserve.

I'm all for intergration in my son's case, with the help he needs being provided to him. That's great. But it's certainly not going to be what every child with autisim, or any other kind of 'special needs', requires. I deplore this 'one size fits all' government party line. Each child is different.

That's my two cents worth. I'll be off now...

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Guest MerryChristmas

Integration is the way forward, having worked with autistic children at Dyce academy I say this with utmost confidence. It is great to see a shy kid come in and then be prepared to go to a class. After about a year of this most of them can go to classes without any help.

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