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"arts degrees are not worth the paper they're written on"


Spoonie

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I, and my teachers at school, thought I was perfectly capable of going into study medicine. I turns out that halfway through second year I suffered very badly from stress and failed my exams, being hospitalised for on set of them because the problem was so bad. I decided that, now that I knew I had this problem, I could redo the year and have a proper shot at the exams (was in hospital for first exams and let out not long before the resits). I studied hard but the problem never went away and I ended up dropping out of uni due to health reasons. Should I have to pay for my fees when I (technically) should've been capable of the degree and did not know that I wouldn't be able to finish it? If you don't think I should pay back my fees then there will be a cutoff for different people eg. someone suffering from a chronic disease... they knew they had it before, should they have to pay their fees back if they can't complete the course, what about people with the 'flu? I studied medicine so have no chance of taking a year out and starting the year again, if I wan't to do it again I have to start from the start. Would that be irresponsible on my part concidering my past, but then the possible benefits due to doctors fees (tax) and lack of doctors in the NHS could far outweigh the cost of training me.

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Do you notice how the people who mention "tax payers money" are the people who are payed to do fuck all....

Or who fail to realise that individually their tax contributions to things like education are but a drop in the ocean?

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Guest tv tanned

I wasn't making a personal dig, please stop being so precious.

It was a general point, as you read everywhere of people talking about taxpayers' money this and that, when what they really mean is "the taxes I pay" which are negligible in the grand scheme of things.

Oh, and I never said you were not entitled to an opinion, however misguided it might be.

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or simply down to her now having the ability then she should pay for her failed year certainly.

Have you been smoking crack?! 8o

Also, what would deem as "exceptional cirumstances"?

Would there be a scale? Depression, family bereavement, stress etc etc..

Still love you though Lester, dont be offended by the smoking crack comment :up:

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I've got an arts degree (MA from Glasgow Uni) which is considered quite good as far as these things go. It's utterly useless in terms of finding work, but I learned a hell of a lot of interesting things while I was at uni. Being at uni gave me the chance to get into a lot of literature that I may otherwise have missed, a lot of art, philosophy, politics etc. I would say the answer to the initial question is that in terms of jobs, they're probably not the best degrees to go for, although some are specific enough that they are the key to getting into certain professions. If you enjoy education for its own sake, there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing an arts degree.

I'd also think the thing about "selfish" students is utter piffle. What's wrong with educating the public purely for the sake of education? Is it bad if more people read? Is it so terrible if people take an interest in the creative arts? Why is culture deemed such a waste of money in this country? Basically, most people who attack this type of education haven't actually been at uni and have literally no idea what they're talking about.

And so what if it comes out the taxpayer's pocket? It's not like anyone actually turns up to vote these days, so they don't have any say in how their money is spent anyway. It's just part of the old "let's attack students, they're all lazy hippies" mentality that people have because they read The Sun too much.

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And so what if it comes out the taxpayer's pocket? It's not like anyone actually turns up to vote these days' date=' so they don't have any say in how their money is spent anyway. It's just part of the old "let's attack students, they're all lazy hippies" mentality that people have because they read The Sun too much.[/quote']

I vote, I pay tax and I don't read the Sun and I object to paying for some lazy bastard to spend 4 years pissing about learning for the sake of learning. I assume from your post you have finnished you art degree and are either working in MacDonalds or are still scrounging of the state.

I believe in free education but if you are educating yourself for the sake of education then you pay for it yourself in FULL.

There are enough useless scrounging parasites in this country without you adding to them. You shouldn't get a payout till you pay in.

:swearing:

:swearing:

:swearing:

:swearing:

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while this has been an interesting wee diversion. I am pretty sure it has been of no help to Spoonie

he's right you know!! :D

when i saw 56 responses, i was thinking 'result! - that's my speech written!!'

i should have known it'd just be lester ranting about how shite students are again ;)

/x

and if anyone wants to rescue the topic, it'd be much appreciated!

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I vote' date=' I pay tax and I don't read the Sun and I object to paying for some lazy bastard to spend 4 years pissing about learning for the sake of learning. I assume from your post you have finnished you art degree and are either working in MacDonalds or are still scrounging of the state.

I believe in free education but if you are educating yourself for the sake of education then you pay for it yourself in FULL.

There are enough useless scrounging parasites in this country without you adding to them. You shouldn't get a payout till you pay in.

:swearing:

:swearing:

:swearing:

:swearing:[/quote']

Hard working my arse, you just sit on the internet all day.

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I vote' date=' I pay tax and I don't read the Sun and I object to paying for some lazy bastard to spend 4 years pissing about learning for the sake of learning. I assume from your post you have finnished you art degree and are either working in MacDonalds or are still scrounging of the state.

I believe in free education but if you are educating yourself for the sake of education then you pay for it yourself in FULL.

There are enough useless scrounging parasites in this country without you adding to them. You shouldn't get a payout till you pay in.

:swearing:

:swearing:

:swearing:

:swearing:[/quote']

So much for culture.

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Erm... I do show up to vote' date=' as do the majority of people I know... I realise as far as the nation goes the amount of people catching their vote is on the decline, however it is absolutely ridiculous to claim that nobody casts a vote in this country.

I said earlier that I am for people reading, expanding their minds and so forth... it's definately a positive activity to persue... I was merely making the point that say for example... I enjoy skiing... it's good for my body, it lowers stress etc... but I certainly don't expect to not pay for it myself... It is a hobbie which benefits myself and myself only. That's the point I'm making. I'm certainly not saying that people shouldn't go to university.[/quote']

You know what I'm getting at without taking what I said too literally. The reason it's worth people broadening their horizons is because culture is an important aspect of society. I'm not talking about educating a few people, I'm talking about educating everyone. Like the moron that I quoted in my previous post, there's always an attitude that intelligence, learning etc are somewhat pointless persuits (it's obvious when you look at how everyone interacted at primary school (ie neds have stronger personalities than geeks etc)). Is it morons who end up running everything (well actually it probably is, but the people who do all the actual work are educated)?

Education isn't a hobby, such as skiing. It's important. Politics is an obvious one. The more you read about politics, sociology, economics etc, the more you understand who you should vote for at a forthcoming election etc. Another example would be if more people were into creative arts, they'd spend less time watching TV or getting drunk. There are far more examples of this.

Ultimately, if the taxpayer's problem is paying for something he feels he isn't getting any return on, the taxpayer should realise that the reason he doesn't get any return isn't because graduates aren't contributing anything, but rather it's because he's missed the opportunity to take advantage of something which would be hugely beneficial to him.

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My personal problem with a lot arts based courses is that I don't believe that they shouldn't be so heavily subsidised. For example... I am all for people going out and learning to better themselves but we have to question if this really should be so heavily funded by the taxpayer? Surely if someone is doing a degree for purely selfish purposes they should have to pay for the full cost (maybe not up front but certainly over a period of time) no? When the degree is not being applied eitherin business or in the public sector... I just have a huge problem with contributing towards someone selfish exploits.

I don't see where this free-ride through Uni and heavy subsidies notion came from. As far as Im aware' date=' upon completion of a degree everyone (even Scottish students) has to pay a substantial sum; I believe it's between 2,000 and 3,000 just now. Student loans aren't free - they get skimmed off the top of a wage when it reaches a certain level, everyone I know in Uni is either ultra-skint, working for a living or are given cash from their parents.

Unfortunately with most degrees the student gain and understanding of the subject but lack any understanding of how to apply their knowledge usefully in life... I think this is something that should definitely be worked on.

What a pile of balls, Ive said before in an older thread they don't take up 4 years of your life for fun. In my example if I was to apply for a job in International Politics, upon hopeful completion of my degree, comparing me (as someone who has learnt all of the theory and spent at least 4 years researching the field) to someone with experience is completely different and circumstantial to the employer.

I'm also wondering why you've got a portion on your shoulder when it comes to students...

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I am all for people going out and learning to better themselves but we have to question if this really should be so heavily funded by the taxpayer? Surely if someone is doing a degree for purely selfish purposes they should have to pay for the full cost (maybe not up front but certainly over a period of time) no? When the degree is not being applied eitherin business or in the public sector... I just have a huge problem with contributing towards someone selfish exploits.

I believe funded courses within universities should be used in a practical sense for training and useful education based around this. Any couses which simply expand the knowledge for an individual should be self funded.

This is a really bizarre attitude to have. Everyone who does a degree is doing it "for selfish" purposes, I think you will find the motivation behind the average uni student is educating themselves so they can get a better job and earn more money. If anything, arts degrees are less selfish, and I think you will find that a lot of arts graduates go on to have involvement in the public sector, and ultimately the arts have a huge part to play in the health of a society and are therefore more value for money for the taxpayer than a swarm of degree graduates working in office blocks for private companies.

The nazi's used to lock up, exile and murder artists precisely because of the importance of their role in a free, healthy society.

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