Guest pop-notmyface Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 I think a comfy' date=' intimate enviroment with small/acoustic gigs in the evening would be good, I'd be happy with a coffee.Your only problem could be your lack of casual punters and 'passing trade' at the weekends, as a lot of these people could see an alcohol-free gig at the weekend as a waste of drinking time, which is a shame. However, you could do pretty well during the weekdays, when people fancy seeing a band but don't want the noise of a pub/club/bar enviroment.You could even stick some rugs on the floor and make everyone sit cross-legged, Donovan-style.[/quote']funny you should say that, i was considering having a "no shoes" policy and have a carpet instead of a proper dancefloor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pop-notmyface Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 Yeh I did think of that' date=' and they are both very nice venues (although I haven't been in Kilau for awhile), but that kind of venue is nowhere near as saturated in Aberdeen as the Rock-Club/Pub format. There's only really those two, and from what I can gather from the types of bands he's mentioned (The Murder of Rosa Luxemburg etc), he'll be putting on very different shows to the kind of thing put on in the Belmont/Kilau etc.[/quote']oh, i would definetly have a variety of artists, maybe someone good acoustic artist like Devandra Banhart (but that's just wishful thinging...). well, something to suit everyone really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamScrooge Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 Ah, resurrecting Drakes are we? Why didn't you just say so? No way thats a 200 capacity venue, no way. Although...maybe we could start a new record for the Guinness book, in lieu of "How many people can one fit in a phonebooth", how about "How many people can you cram into Drakes"? Admittadly though, we might not be able to get as many people into Drakes as you would in a phonebooth Yeah uh, last system they had in there was a mackie SRM series powered rig. That mackie stuffs a complete rip off, with the boxes going for about 800 each, and although I've never had the oppertunity to back-to-back it with some standard Peavey speakers for example, I'd be very surprised if there was a significant difference.Although people have been telling you to go for a vocal only PA, and they'd be right, Drakes used to do a lot of DJ nights too didn't they, and there were often songs being played inbetween bands too. For this reason, you might wanna invest in subs too, which will double your amp/speaker budget. Also a good idea for if keyboard players/samplers/electronic kits come in.But, trust me on the sunscreen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pop-notmyface Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 as far as i am awaire' date=' aye, it is! which im told had a capacity of nearly 200 in its hayday...im probably wrong...bye[/quote']but that was when there wasn't a stage.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 thing is though ryan' date=' you already have that type of venue with kilau, the belmont in more accessible places etc[/quote']This should be considered too - will people want to travel as far as Drakes for what you're offering? again it's all about your research in the beginning. The Moorings gets people to visit because they offer a decent drinking experience at the right price, Moshulu gets people to visit despite its location because it's the only club in town that's genuinely alternative, so your slant on things has to be unique in an Aberdeen context - while making sure that you're meeting the demand for it.Another thing to consider : what age group would be your target market? Drakes's undeniable strength lay with them being able to attract very different crowds on different nights. At the end of the day, I guess it's a question of whether you want to invent a brand new crowd (not always impossible) or whether you want a slice of the existing pie.edit : would 10-12k be enough to open the place up and fit it out/etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pop-notmyface Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 thanks for all the advice so far btw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 Yeah uh' date=' last system they had in there was a mackie SRM series powered rig. That mackie stuffs a complete rip off, with the boxes going for about 800 each, and although I've never had the oppertunity to back-to-back it with some standard Peavey speakers for example, I'd be very surprised if there was a significant difference.[/quote'] Peavey vs Mackie, there's only going to be one loser there and it ain't Mackie. Judging by the fact that I see a lot of mackie rigs around the country, but no Peaveys, I'd also imagine that I'm not alone in thinking that. People don't fork out extra cash if they can buy something just as good much cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Storm Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 do we really need another venue in aberdeen???- i agree we need a small venue but i dont think the climate is "perfect" yet- also, you may find you run into more problems with these acts that you are goign for. how many times did drakes go for the likes of pelican/oxes. bands liek the murder.... etc play to 200/300 in glasgow. agents often only have a few scottish dates for bands of that size, therefore they go for the date where 1. they make more money from the offer 2. the band can sell a fuckload of merch. plus i would imagine that bands of their stature would be in the (taking into account agents fees/ticket printing etc) 500/600 plus accom. and that is the kind of thing you need to do 3/4 times a week. i havent even included hot meals, beer, waters, juices, breakfast etc plus someone needs to be able to give up all of their time to ensure those kind of bands are looked afteri think its good that you are trying to do it, but i am worried that this will be ill fated from the start. so far you havent copnvinced me at all that you know what you are doing.as for the carpet/dancefloor idea... do you really want people like teabags filthpact taking off his shoes this may come accross as cynical, but just the way im thinkingsm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pop-notmyface Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 mmh, no i'm not exactly convinced either...i guess i'd be hoping that some of those bands would be just interested in playing music, and of course they would get their fair share of the/any profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash@TMB Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 I realise that this thread is entitled PA help, and so this isn't really what you're asking, but the mention of 12K for doing the place up got me going so WTF here goes:The ballpark figure you need to successfully operate a stable venue/bar/club is 100K per every 50 people it realistically holds. IMPORTANT NOTE - this includes purchasing the building. Not purchasing the building sends you on a hiding to nothing straight away. Remember that this place has to compete with everywhere else, including all those chains (like The Garage etc) which have deep pockets.This figure also includes all your setup costs, spare cash for one extensive redecoration/refit, the rig, and some money left over for that all important cashflow. For this investment a person of reasonable (above average) intelligence would expect to earn a decent living, work around 40-50 hours per week i.e. have a life, and not risk losing their dough. So for 62 Shiprow you'd need 150K burning a hole in your pocket. Ahhh BUT 62 Shiprow is 50K overpriced, so in this instance you'd need about 200K.Now this may sound negative, but I'm not trying to put you off. It is possible for a determind person of reasonable intelligence to raise that sort of money in 10 years from a standing start... provided they work/save/invest hard enough and long enough. A smart person with a following wind will do it in less, perhapsas little as 5 years. That might seem a long time, but all it means is starting from age 20, you can achieve this by age 30. Also... if you haven't quite accrued the whole ammount, but have set up a reliable revenue source/stream, then you can conceivably get started sooner.Now it is possible for a bright business person to do this with less money, and if they NEVER make a mistake and everything goes their way (which it never does), then you could shave a maximum of 33% off that figure. But things would be fraught, they would work very long hours, and they would occasionally find themselves balancing on a knife edge along the way. If they survive 10 years of that then they've succeeded!Alternatively such a person, starting with fuck all, could probably keep such a place going for a maximum of 5 years before they are forced to jack it in. The main problem being the rent. Paying the rent does not give you the opportunity to save to purchase the building. It's a horrible Catch 22 situation. And remember that the rent always goes up. Regardless of how well you do. Which means it ultimately outpaces reality. So if you really want to do this, then go away and earn the money. It can be done. And along the way you'll glean some valuable experience. But if you do not have the willpower to earn and save like that, then you do not have what it takes anyway. That is IMO the bottom line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pop-notmyface Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 mmh, that is a very fair point.just maybe i am getting head first into this.but the only problem is that it might not be available in future years. the landlord said that opening a gay bar would be a huge success because it is right next to O'Henrys and it is so far the only gay bar in aberdeen. and at full capacity, with ticket prices of 5 per head, one could expect something like 700 or more on weekend days.it's a very difficult decision to start with even... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 It was a gay bar years ago, if you remeber Club 2000?Remeber the landlord is looking to let the place, so he's bound to tell you these things. It is right next to O'Henry's, so do you want the inevitable hassle from there as you're directly stepping onto their turf? Again though, would the LGBT community want to visit a dry bar when they could visit one around the corner, pay the same to get in AND get to drink? Perhaps though, you might want to investigate opening it as a gay caf - that concept hasn't been done in Aberdeen, and that way, you're not stepping on O'Henry's toes either. A caf that puts on occasional music, that's openly gay-friendly could make a killing - but at the same time, it could be a miserable failure...research! research! research! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamScrooge Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 I realise that this has gone from PA to more pertinent issues, but if you're still interested this thread may be of some help.http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1084639Soundian - Do you really think that the difference in price between 2 Mackie SRM450s and 2 Messenger ULs properly amplified is going to be worth the price difference? Anywhere close even? But, most importantly, do you think that anyone in your average audience would notice or care?Yes, theres a good reason that we see loads of mackies up and down the country, they're not bad speakers, they've got a good bit of bass(irrelevent with subs) albeit to my ears the midrange is quite bad sounding, but the main reason we see so many of the dang things is because Mackie have so much more invested in marketing and...for some reason...they seem to have established themselve as a 'premium' product to the uninformed. Also, theres the mentality of '800? It must be good!' I've used Peaveys and have always been overjoyed with the quality for price, and I've used mackies and been dissapointed.PV are making higher ended products now in the QRX line, some people even compare the subs to the old JBL 4719(?)s so I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of them utterly kicking Mackies ass either.Anyway, sorry to hijack the thread, I know that this isn't strictly relevent. I just think that in general that brand tends to be a rip off, you can take my opinion for what its worth.I'd like to see what comes of Ole Drakes though.To me at least, the attraction of drakes was the openness of it, anyone and everyone could get a gig there and there was usually a selection of big names too, guaranteed entertainment, and marketing was top notch, was just a bit small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingin' Ryan Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 i agree we need a small venue but i dont think the climate is "perfect" yetI definitely agree with this, it's something that needs to be properly looked into and done at the right time as Aberdeen has had quite a few new venues cropping up recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MDP Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 i think you should just get rid of the stage, maybe keep a bar of some sorts, and have the bands dotted around the room, like the drummer in the middle of the room, n guitarists against the wall's n stuff, just for fun...on second thoughts, that is a shit idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 I realise that this has gone from PA to more pertinent issues' date=' but if you're still interested this thread may be of some help.[url']http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1084639Soundian - Do you really think that the difference in price between 2 Mackie SRM450s and 2 Messenger ULs properly amplified is going to be worth the price difference? Anywhere close even? Yes, I've just done a quick search: 2 mackie SRM 450 1068 2 peavey UL15 798, leaving 270 for an amp. That's fairly equal.As for sound quality, every Peavey enclosure I've ever used sounds about as flat as Jordan's chest, at least Mackies are usable without extreme EQing. Not that I'm a Mackie fan.p.s. Peavey is a "brand" as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeC Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 Yes' date=' I've just done a quick search: 2 mackie SRM 450 1068 2 peavey UL15 798, leaving 270 for an amp. That's fairly equal.As for sound quality, every Peavey enclosure I've ever used sounds about as flat as Jordan's chest, at least Mackies are usable without extreme EQing. Not that I'm a Mackie fan.p.s. Peavey is a "brand" as well.[/quote']Oh fuck off and leave Peavey alone you grumpy old bastard...... Its his pet hate you know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash@TMB Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 Oh fuck off and leave Peavey alone you grumpy old bastard...... Its his pet hate you know... Pet hates are one thing... his real loathing is reserved for thing that begin with B, end with R, are approx 9 letters long, and come in shiney silver boxes *SHUDDER*.So B*******R vs Peavy anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Jack Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 Pet hates are one thing... his real loathing is reserved for thing that begin with B' date=' end with R, are approx 9 letters long[/quote']he hates Bass Players? Actually I can understand that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeC Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 he hates Bass Players? Actually I can understand that.which may explain the self loathing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 Oh fuck off and leave Peavey alone you grumpy old bastard...... Its his pet hate you know... Once they start producing the goods I will. I concede that some of their "higher-end" stuff is alright though. My pet hate is tortoises, I just don't see the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 Pet hates are one thing... his real loathing is reserved for thing that begin with B' date=' end with R, are approx 9 letters long, and come in shiney silver boxes *SHUDDER*.So B*******R vs Peavy anyone?[/quote'] When it comes to the B word, familiarity does indeed breed contempt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 he hates Bass Players? Actually I can understand that. I try to be diplomatic and hate every member of a band equally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Stax Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 ErmI seemed to have missed the fact that he was talking about said location... I could ramble about this that and the other but I shant, too much, and there are things I can't say! Flash said it all and heed his words.The place has been sitting empty for some months now and doesn't look likely to be used any time soon. Ask your self why? Rent, rates, insurance(s), electric, water... Just the tip of the iceberg really and we haven't even mentioned band and staff fees... My honest and well intentioned advice is to 'not do it'. There are numerous reasons why Drakes closed but a main factor is that we didn't own the building... I would not get back into that end of things without being able to raise the capital to purchase the property. The capacity was 110! There were rare occassions when it reached this and believe me it wasn't pretty. I would tend to hold it at around 90 for safety reasons. The room is a beautiful room for acoustic acts and was considered by some insiders to be one of the best acoustic venues in the country. That said it needs a big PA for reasons that a sound engineer will give you the specifics for so you would be looking to fork out a tidy wee sum. The venue itself was in need of a great deal of repair and the amount you are mentioning, if this was to include a sound system, wouldn't be anywhere near enough, sorry.I am saying these things not to be negative but in the hope that absolute consideration is given to every area of the plan as the small details are those that bite you in the ass. I would dearly love to see that building being used for what it does best, live music, but The climate is not right. Maybe a couple of years time will see audiences building to the level that is required to sustain the existing and any new venues. There are a few on this thread that know what they are talking about, and even Cloud made some good points All these things are said not to dishearten but, I would assume, dare I say it, enlighten. All the best though... PM me if you need to hear things that I can't say on here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threeornothing Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 I try to be diplomatic and hate every member of a band equally.With drummers being the exception to the rule? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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