DIY crust/grind etc?

[kirkt]

To be honest' date=' I will let you and Jake discuss this. Personally, I have the odd dig at Jamesy but have never once been seriously taking the piss, you know that Dan If there wasnt a bit of MMW bashing and Jamesy winding the world would be a quiet place. As for Jake well, it will be interesting to hear what he has to say. MMW are doing fine so are Spike but in very different ways.

I agree that this could be an interesting thread regarding what is/isnt DIY etc, hopefully that is what it will be about.

Cheers

Hog the bald diplomat

or as Jamesy once stated Hog "the wine sipping bastard" [/quote']

I wouldnt say you sip wine. That suggests you drink it with class

[Dan G]

hmm I think Gregors comments were out of line but I dunno bout Jakes. Not saying I completely agree but erm.. I don't see the point in all this arguing between Spike and MMW. We're different bands with different ideals and what works for you is totally different to us but I don't see a problem with that. Think everyone should just agree to disagree. Or something like that...

I don't have the slightest problem with Spike... I can't recall ever saying a bad word about you at all! I''m not even arguing "with Spike" - I just think jakes comments are about as accurate as a blind man on a see saw pissing into test tube attatched to his head. This thread was merely a response to such wonderful comments as:

1. your rinky-dink pop outfit

2. not using your money to try and sneak up the ladder and whore yourselves out to some record label.

3. your musical career being spent on your knees in anticipation of the occasional glancing lick of the corporate cock. DIY all the fucking way' date=' winning the moral high ground by a mile.

4. I'll have to stop here, I'm busy organising trades and getting our stuff out around the globe, doing things entirely off my own back, without resorting to the chequebook. We don't believe in shortcuts. Enjoy your little gig.[/i']

HOWEVER, I do believe that it does raise a few questions about "what is DIY music?" in the opinions of those who take it to the extreme. Petty insults aside, I'd be interested to what the likes of jake would say about that...

[Hog]

I wouldnt say you sip wine. That suggests you drink it with class

Glug glug glug

[framheim]

i think you will find each comment i made was a direct response to a personal attack.

i think there's a difference between a cheeky dig and a personal attack. especially when someone adds "only kidding" at the end and you respond with "ye wee cunt".

[Scootray]

After reading that closed thread, I just thought all that arguing was petty. If you don't like MMW, who cares? I haven't heard any of their stuff, so I can't comment. But the way some were acting, it was like they were talking the whole my band against the world tone.

One question. What happened to the fun in playing music?

[kirkt]

I don't have the slightest problem with Spike... I can't recall ever saying a bad word about you at all! I''m not even arguing "with Spike" - I just think jakes comments are about as accurate as a blind man on a see saw pissing into test tube attatched to his head. This thread was merely a response to such wonderful comments as:

1. your rinky-dink pop outfit

2. not using your money to try and sneak up the ladder and whore yourselves out to some record label.

3. your musical career being spent on your knees in anticipation of the occasional glancing lick of the corporate cock. DIY all the fucking way' date=' winning the moral high ground by a mile.

4. I'll have to stop here, I'm busy organising trades and getting our stuff out around the globe, doing things entirely off my own back, without resorting to the chequebook. We don't believe in shortcuts. Enjoy your little gig.[/i']

HOWEVER, I do believe that it does raise a few questions about "what is DIY music?" in the opinions of those who take it to the extreme. Petty insults aside, I'd be interested to what the likes of jake would say about that...

Yeah I know your not slagging off Spike and ok Jakes comments were harsh but when you know how Jake believes in DIY then I wouldn't take the insult personally.

The way I see DIY is bands that book their own tours, release their own records, put their own gigs on, help other bands with gig swaps, trades, zines and not rely on record labels, shops, booking agents to do it. It's a thin line what stops becoming DIY i guess but I would agree with Fugazi as being the best example of a DIY band. Since I became involved in what I see as the DIY punk underground, I've made friends all over the world, discovered new bands, and it has totally influenced how I think (for example, reading zines helped me decide to become a vegetarian, boycott Coca Cola etc). I guess everyones view of DIY is different, for example, although me and Jake share a lot of ideals, I feel our views on certain things differ, like I wouldn't say no to playing Taste of Chaos even though its not my type of music (cept Rise Against...who I still like despite being on a major label)

[Alkaline]

One question. What happened to the fun in playing music?

One word. Jealousy.

[The Milner]

i think you will find each comment i made was a direct response to a personal attack.

awww *hugs* its ok.

[Larsen B]

I thought this thread was about making your own bread.

[Hog]

I have been the epitomy of DIY until I met my lady friend

[Dan G]

The way I see DIY is bands that book their own tours' date=' release their own records, put their own gigs on, help other bands with gig swaps, trades, zines [/quote']

Nail on the head, sir. The reason I got so uptight in the first place is because MMW have done EVERY one of those on the list! But anyway enough about that...

cept Rise Against...who I still like despite being on a major label

comments like this i find slightly sad*' date=' in the sense that it gives the impression that you AREN'T allowed to like a band if they are on a major label. To me that's when music stops becoming about music and is more to do with politics - which is to me kinda like anti-racism being taken to the extreme so it is racist again (positive discrimination and all that jazz...)

To me that comment would be akin to:

cept Leroy...who I still like despite being a black person

I can't understand why you can't just like a band if you think their music is good, and not like them if you don't. Isn't that how everyone gets into music anyway? through hearing a song that they actually like?

The whole reason I'm into the music I am, and have the life I do involving music etc is thanks to Iron Maiden. I loved them as a kid... but they were on a major label. So what!? they have released some great music, influenced thousands of bands and effectively made my life what it is. Just because some money grabbing assholes were inevitably involved in the company that put their music out to such a wide audience, doesn't mean that I shouldn't be allowed to like them!

Then again that's just my view - maybe i'm wrong... I just think it's stupid when people involve nazi-esque views with music.

* not as in "you are sad Kirk", more like "it is a shame that..."

[jester1470]

One word. Jealousy.

Thats the standard answer for everything, its a shame its crap. Anyone who thinks Spike wants to achieve the same things as MMw is very stupid. Spike have no desire to be signed, to play the big gigs, MMw do, and from that respect theres no reason for Spike to be jealous of MMw achieving things. MMw have started to do well and heres hoping they can keep the momentum going and this might be the start of them being able to take the next step to bigger supports outwith Aberdeen and making an impression on the UK at large. Spike have no desire for that and enjoy doing what they do, both bands are very successfull at their chosen paths.

Cheers

Stuart

[Teabags]

to me DIY is making sure your band and what you get involved in is entirely down to the band.

no agents.

a label wants to put out your record, you say yes or no, but keep it on a DIY label, so you're on the same wavelength about how its priced/distributed etc. otherwise, release it yourself.

distributed DIY by DIY distros/labels.

booking a tour? simple. go on forums, ask for gigs, some food and petrol money. think you need anything else than that, why exactly?? takes alot of e-mails, but you know what to expect when you finally do it. "looking for a gig. all we need is some veggie food, a place to sleep if possible (otherwise we can camp) and money for petrol". not much to ask, but if you play 13 gigs in 14 days in 11 different countries, seeing ace bands, meetingf ace people, getting drunk, having fun, partying AND you get to play and a little money to make it to the next location, then its the cheapest but best holiday ever.

writing a zine? releasing a CD/record/tape? do some trades. etc etc. you'll get new music to listen to/distro/trade and you'll also get your stuff out for cheap as chips.

and basically, if you ARE in the DIY scene properly, then the majority of people who buy DIY music will get to know it through these small-time zines and distros and they'll be gettting it at a cheaper price.

the second a bigger label/booking agent/manager/roadie comes in, the prices go up, people get annyed cos you're asking for too mcuh money or you get annoyed cos you're not making enough money. the second that happens, it becomes about money, and not having fucking fun.

keeping it DIY keeps it cheap basically. which keeps it all the more fun.

if people want to go the other way, fair-dos. thats there choice. I just dont think they're going to have as much fun. if they still do, fair-dos.

I personally would rather do a self set-up DIY tour round eastern europe for 2 weeks, seeing and hearing new bands, seing old friends, making new friends..... than "win" the chance to play one gig with a couple of bands that alot of people seem to like.

but hey, thats me.

EDIT: Also want to point out, none of this is MMW bashing. Im not saying their not DIY. They've done alot of DIY stuff. I wouldnt call thema "DIY band". THeres a difference. Just stating what I see DIY as being, as apparently this is what the thread has turned into.

[framheim]

to me DIY is making sure your band and what you get involved in is entirely down to the band.

no agents.

a label wants to put out your record' date=' you say yes or no, but keep it on a DIY label, so you're on the same wavelength about how its priced/distributed etc. otherwise, release it yourself.

distributed DIY by DIY distros/labels.

booking a tour? simple. go on forums, ask for gigs, some food and petrol money. think you need anything else than that, why exactly?? takes alot of e-mails, but you know what to expect when you finally do it. "looking for a gig. all we need is some veggie food, a place to sleep if possible (otherwise we can camp) and money for petrol". not much to ask, but if you play 13 gigs in 14 days in 11 different countries, seeing ace bands, meetingf ace people, getting drunk, having fun, partying AND you get to play and a little money to make it to the next location, then its the cheapest but best holiday ever.

writing a zine? releasing a CD/record/tape? do some trades. etc etc. you'll get new music to listen to/distro/trade and you'll also get your stuff out for cheap as chips.

and basically, if you ARE in the DIY scene properly, then the majority of people who buy DIY music will get to know it through these small-time zines and distros and they'll be gettting it at a cheaper price.

the second a bigger label/booking agent/manager/roadie comes in, the prices go up, people get annyed cos you're asking for too mcuh money or you get annoyed cos you're not making enough money. the second that happens, it becomes about money, and not having fucking fun.

keeping it DIY keeps it cheap basically. which keeps it all the more fun.

if people want to go the other way, fair-dos. thats there choice. I just dont think they're going to have as much fun. if they still do, fair-dos.

I personally would rather do a self set-up DIY tour round eastern europe for 2 weeks, seeing and hearing new bands, seing old friends, making new friends..... than "win" the chance to play one gig with a couple of bands that alot of people seem to like.

but hey, thats me.[/quote']

i guess it's all to with means to an end. the one gig with a couple of bands could be to more people than a whole tour of eastern europe and might be a better way of acheiving that bands aims. i'm sure they'll have fun. of course there's no reason why you couldn't do both.

at the end of the day my minds weapon have the chance to play on a show a band at their level would normally not get to play, with some bands they like and respect. fair play to them. and the likes of filthpact can go and book and manage a european tour a few times a year then fucking fair play to them to. everyone works hard to do it and everyones having fun playing their music. heh, can't we all just get along?

i'm not taking sides, just been calling it how i see it. to be honest i'm more of the diy persuasion than anything else but only to an extent. there is no reason why you should pay thousands of pounds to record anywhere these days. and unless you can sell hundreds of thousands of records no reason to be on a major label either, and even then you need to have a great deal.

of course if you want to pay thousands of pounds for promotional photographs, well then we can talk

[Scorge]

MMW aren't a DIY band obviously. For a start we use our mummy and daddy's money towards buying onto every gig going. I also don't even play my own guitar' date=' someone does...... etc etc etc....[/quote']

Get over it, you sad cunt!

[Scorge]

Gloves off, I hope!

[Alkaline]

Thats the standard answer for everything' date=' its a shame its crap. Anyone who thinks Spike wants to achieve the same things as MMw is very stupid. Spike have no desire to be signed, to play the big gigs, MMw do, and from that respect theres no reason for Spike to be jealous of MMw achieving things. MMw have started to do well and heres hoping they can keep the momentum going and this might be the start of them being able to take the next step to bigger supports outwith Aberdeen and making an impression on the UK at large. Spike have no desire for that and enjoy doing what they do, both bands are very successfull at their chosen paths.

Cheers

Stuart[/quote']

Get a grip, there was a small element of sarcasm in that post hence the wink. I'm not interested in how much work either do its not a fucking contest, of course each have different ideas of what success means and in what they achieve. I've probably got as much idea of how things work in the music biz as you do and how bands work so don't patronise me.

Cheers

Phil

[Dan G]

Get over it' date=' you sad cunt![/quote']

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

I'd maybe have taken that seriously if this wasn't you:

you're just pissed off cos Doc and Gregor wouldn't let you have a big candle too.

P.S. I have lost count of the amount of times I've thought exactly the same about you, everytime you bang on about hating emo blah blah blah... boring!

[Chris]

Guys, please. This topic was getting along so nicely...

[Guest Gregor Ascension]

awww *hugs* its ok.

i see you still havent recovered from the serving i gave you on th other thread. GET OVER IT.

[Dan G]

I have been the epitomy of DIY until I met my lady friend

You used to make all your own cupboards yourself but now you get the lazy bitch to pop down to B&Q to do the honours?

[Hog]

You used to make all your own cupboards yourself but now you get the lazy bitch to pop down to B&Q to do the honours?

Something like that

[Guest Jake Wifebeater]

And I know that it's basically a direct response to the attack Jake made on MMW' date=' it's a shame Dan's stooped to insults as well. Kind of waters down the point I feel. [/quote']

It should be noted that I never made any personal attacks on any individual member of MMW, merely expressed a strong opinion.

[Guest Jake Wifebeater]

Yes' date=' Jakes comments were short sighted and (IMHO) elitist, but his take on what determines success is different to MMW. I respect bands who work hard and don't compromise - MMW work harder than most (all?) Aberdeen bands, and haven't compromised their sound one iota. Yes, its a "cool" style at present, but they ALL love it, and don't need your (or anyone elses) approval.[/quote']

Elitist, no, purist, yes.

[threeornothing]

i think diy works best when you look at it as a model like with dischord and southern. .

Amen to that. A lot of people think DIY is a smoke screen for getting away with doing a shit job "Its DIY innit...its punk"...I've seen first hand a lot of DIY'ers turning out to be hypocrites of the highest order, people who would otherwise be respected.....so I don't care so much for the militant underground anymore....the deeper they dig underground the sooner they'll realise they can't dig up when they can no longer see or breathe