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What does everyone think of the new smoking laws


JaseyBoi

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Yes' date=' but people who do not drink are just as capable of violence as those who do.

Unless you are suggesting every act of violence committed is a result of alcohol.

Conversely, it is impossible for a non-smoker to create the same problems as a smoker vis a vis passive smoking.[/quote']

Have you ever been on Union Street on a Friday or Saturday night?

"Only" 500 people die every year as a 'result' of passive smoking, and in the grand scheme of things, this is not a huge number. And you are not going to die of passive smoking by having a couple of pints down the pub twice a week. I agree with the smoking ban, but I believe stricter alcohol controls should be more of a priority. The thing that worries about going on a night out, is not inhaling other people's ciggarette slmoke, but actually if I can safely stand in a taxi rank or walk home. And if it's only the establishment who gets fined, those smokers who break the law get off scot-free, that seems slightly unfair to me.

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As I said in another of these threads, we could all argue until we're blue in the face. I don't smoke and I am certainly looking forward to the ban. I'm not a fan of the croaky throat every Saturday/Sunday morning. I wouldn't object to smoking rooms in pubs/clubs but staff would still be working in among the smokers.

I was in Dublin a couple of months ago. It was bliss. We came in and out of loads of pubs, feeling fresh and did not come across any trouble, even in the early hours. Those smokers within a group were out together just enjoying a cigarette, no harm there.

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Bla Bla "please dont kill me with your passive smoking" Bla Bla

YEH WELL STOP STEALING MY FUCKING SMOKE FUCKSTICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rockon:

Does that mean you feel no guilt what so ever that in order to see some really good band say for example at The Moorings, then they have to put with your smoking. Do you not think that is slightly unfair.

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Guest tv tanned
Have you ever been on Union Street on a Friday or Saturday night?

Frequently' date=' and yet I have never yet been attacked (touches lots of pieces of wood) I am not saying drink related violence does not occur, merely that your example is entirely disanalogous, because I can drink heavily and not be violent, I cannot smoke heavily and not contribute to atmospheric smoke and thus passive smoking.

"Only" 500 people die every year as a 'result' of passive smoking, and in the grand scheme of things, this is not a huge number.

One would be too many for a cause of death that is entirely preventable.

And you are not going to die of passive smoking by having a couple of pints down the pub twice a week.

Not instantly, but the cumulative effect, combined with a potential condition (i.e. asthma, heart trouble) will be very damaging over a long period.

I agree with the smoking ban, but I believe stricter alcohol controls should be more of a priority.

Fine. I fail to see why you need to compare the two to make this point though.

The thing that worries about going on a night out, is not inhaling other people's ciggarette slmoke, but actually if I can safely stand in a taxi rank or walk home.

Which is why we need to ensure taxi ranks are well lit and, where necessary, patrolled. Almost all of the taxi ranks in Aberdeen are poorly lit side streets. Nobody is going to feel entirely safe in them.

And if it's only the establishment who gets fined, those smokers who break the law get off scot-free, that seems slightly unfair to me.

No, if it is made a condition of the license then it is the establishment's responsibility. That's like saying if a club exceeds its licensed hours by staying open until 4am instead of 3am, then you should fine everyone in the club after 3am.

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Does that mean you feel no guilt what so ever that in order to see some really good band say for example at The Moorings' date=' then they have to put with your smoking. Do you not think that is slightly unfair.[/quote']

You would have more luck reasoning with these turnips.

turnip(3).jpg

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People always say this to me when I indicate that I am entirely in favour of a smoking ban.

My response is "fine' date=' ban smoking then."

They then tell me that they pay tax on cigarettes, blah blah, irreplacable, blah blah, zzzzz

In any case, I find it morally reprehensible that the sole reason for letting people kill themselves (and sometimes other people) slowly, should be to keep the tax bill down.

Give me a break.[/quote']

I wasn't saying you shouldn't ban smoking because people would live longer, I was saying the government would never do it because of this.

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Also, all the arguments for banning smoking or for not banning smoking are weak. The government wants to ban it to look like it's doing something to stop the serious social evil that smoking is (but introducing 24 hour licensing and Uber-casinos is okay). People like getting lost up their arses about rights (infringing smokers' right to smoke is piffle) and the passive smoking argument is spurious. Nobody argues that smoking is good for you, but nobody actually knows how much damage passive smoking does.

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nobody actually knows how much damage passive smoking does.

If you can find me some definitive document from a body which is not the Tobacco Manufacturing Association, or a scientist in their pay, which states clearly that passive smoking is not damaging, then I will continue to listen to the BMA, who are far more likely to be telling me the truth.

And they are telling me that passive smoking has serious detrimental effects on health.

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No. "Nobody knows how much damage passive smoking does" does not equate to "passive smoking does no damage". You put words in my mouth again.

A large part of the "ban smoking" argument is based on the damage passive smoking does. Since nobody actually knows what damage this is (no definitive proof that banning smoking in pubs will make a difference to the health of non-smokers), this argument is spurious and misleading.

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but we agree that damage is done, therefore it is a problem.

Your argument is a microcosm of Val's rather nonchalant "oh, it only kills 500 people every year..." point.

Any damage done is a problem, and the authorative health bodies are fairly unanimous in their view that the damage is not minimal.

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Since nobody actually knows what damage this is (no definitive proof that banning smoking in pubs will make a difference to the health of non-smokers)' date=' this argument is spurious and misleading.[/quote']

http://www.bma.org.uk/ap.nsf/Content/humancosttobacco~Passive?OpenDocument&Highlight=2,passive,smoking

Passive smoke and health

Second hand smoke increases the risk of lung cancer by 20 30%

Passive smoking increases the risk of heart disease by 25 35%

Eight out of 10 asthmatics say second hand smoke can trigger an attack

Passive smoking almost doubles the risk of stroke

Second hand smoke causes asthma, respiratory illnesses and ear infections in children

Eight out of 10 people know that second hand smoke can cause lung cancer

Smoke free: Improving health for all

Smoke free places help the 7 out of 10 smokers who want to quit, making it easier for them to stay stopped

Smoke free places may reduce the risk of young people taking up smoking

Smoke free laws have been associated with significant reductions in heart disease

Smoke free workplaces could cut smoking rates by 4 percentage points and tobacco consumption by 7%

When fewer adults smoke, childrens exposure to second hand smoke is reduced

Smoke free: The international evidence

In Finland, exposure to second hand smoke plummeted after voluntary measures were replaced with legislation

New Yorks law on smoking in public places is well respected: 97% of bars and restaurants are now smoke free

The tobacco industry has encouraged opposition to smoke free bars, restaurants and clubs worldwide

Lung cancer rates declined six times faster in California than in US states without smoke free laws

The tobacco industry promotes ineffective voluntary measures on smoking in public places

Legislation introduced in Ireland this year has proved a resounding success with more than 95% compliance and almost 7,000 smokers giving up the habit.

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What are the chances of getting cancer in the first place? How much passive smoking increases the risk? One fag or one million fags? And if you spend that much time in the pub, how much good are you doing your health? As I said, it's misleading.

Smoking can do this, it might do that blah blah blah. None of this is substantial.

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Guest tv tanned
What are the chances of getting cancer in the first place? How much passive smoking increases the risk? One fag or one million fags? And if you spend that much time in the pub' date=' how much good are you doing your health? As I said, it's misleading.

Smoking can do this, it might do that blah blah blah. None of this is substantial.[/quote']

So you know better than the BMA then?

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Come now' date=' surely you can do better than that?

I didn't actually say the BMA's statistics were wrong, but in the context of your argument, they don't mean what you claim they do.[/quote']

Clearly they are talking about repeated exposure.

Clearly I am as well.

Clearly people who work in pubs, clubs and restaurants, or who regularly visit the pub, will be exposed to second hand smoke.

I suppose you put the evidence down to coincidence do you?

My argument is fairly simple. Rights have to be balanced. The right to breathe clean air outweighs other people's right to smoke.

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I couldn't agree with tv tanned more. I have asthma which is controlled through daily medication but since I started going out to bars and pubs I've had countless sore throats.

It's not just about that though, I'm sick fed up of waking up with my clothes and my hair and my bed stinking of smoke. I don't think smokers understand it because they're accustomed to the smell but it's horrible.

And please don't anyone say "well you shouldn't go out if you don't like it." That's just not a valid arguement.

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Sorry' date=' I didn't mean to say your arguement was stupid, and I understand you got it from the BMA. But I just don't think that point can be factual.[/quote']

Like any statistic it is based on an extrapolation.

Most likely a survey of a thousand or so folk was undertaken, and they extrapolated from those results.

Like any survey, it is not based on asking every individual, but on asking a wide cross section and then using the results as a basis.

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Like any statistic it is based on an extrapolation.

Most likely a survey of a thousand or so folk was undertaken' date=' and they extrapolated from those results.

Like any survey, it is not based on asking every individual, but on asking a wide cross section and then using the results as a basis.[/quote']

Precisely. It's a fucking survey. Hence, very fallible indeed. Name-dropping "BMA" doesn't make your arguments any more credible in the matter, either, as much as you'd like to think it does. Regardless, BMJ also publish studies that prescribe to both sides of the argument. Evidently, the jury is still out on the matter. Evidently you're selective with regards to which "studies" you cite as excuses for your pompous, self-righteous crusade.

You're still a bunch of selective hypochondriacs.

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