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threeornothing

Studios with Pro Tools TDM rigs in Scotland

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Does anyone know all/any studios in Scotland with all singing all dancing pro tools TDM rigs (not pro tools LE)....Speaking to some people who find it hard to believe that Aberdeen, being the 3rd largest city in the country doesn't have such facilities. Does anyone particularly care if the local studios use pro tools or not?

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Don't look at me. I don't even understand what all this pro tools stuff is. I just play the drums and hope someone else sorts out all that technical jargon. :D

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University Of Aberdeen has Protools TDM with HD outboard in the music department :D

Nooo Dont use protools unless you want to take twice as long.... It is the standard but is not the best.

Just wondering, in your opinion what is the best?

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I've never used protools, but personally im of the mindset that it doesn't really matter what software the studio is running, as long as the guy behind the console knows what he's doing and can achieve the results the client wants.

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I've never used protools' date=' but personally im of the mindset that it doesn't really matter what software the studio is running, as long as the guy behind the console knows what he's doing and can achieve the results the client wants.[/quote']

seems about right to me.

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Na Na Na its all in the software/ hardware. you aint gonna get the same result as protools or logic or cubase etc using audcity/ kristal etc.

just like you wont get the same sounding production from a digital desk as an analoge desk.

yeh it dose matter if the techy is shite or not, but thats not the only factor.

just my view

:cheers:

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I know of several individuals running PT TDM/HD in the Aberdeen area.

Mainly for broadcast work/theatre/post production.

I'm not aware of any public studios in the area using PT TDM/HD

If you want a sniff at the paying media work from the London area you pretty much have to have PT. Not because there is any technical reason (usually) for using it but there is a mindset that if they are paying the bucks they want to see that you are using big boys toys...

Aberdeen has wayyyy too many guitar bands and too little regular paying pro work for any commercial studio up here to invest in it.

Glasgow and Edinburgh both have a media industry.

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If you want a sniff at the paying media work from the London area you pretty much have to have PT. Not because there is any technical reason (usually) for using it but there is a mindset that if they are paying the bucks they want to see that you are using big boys toys...

Aberdeen has wayyyy too many guitar bands and too little regular paying pro work for any commercial studio up here to invest in it.

Glasgow and Edinburgh both have a media industry.

This is absolutely true, there is the argument that you have to spend thousands on high quality a/d gear to really get the best out of PT but then again you can see why studios here dont give a shit, given the material that forms the guts of their business.

I think it's a shame that aberdeen is a kind of lame cousin of edinburgh and glasgow in terms of music/media, there could be a really cool scene up here...probably...if all the sane creative people didn't leave... heh

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ProTools and mis-information

We charge 100 extra a day for ProTools HD3 with engineer. Are you sure you really need it?

There seems to be a great deal of mis-information here about ProTools.

There are three types of recording and editing packages:

1. Black box

2. Harware based, but using dedicated software on PC or Mac

3. Software only on PC or Mac

The main platforms in all these are as follows:

1. Fairlight, Radar, Tascam, Mackie, Alisis. Fairlight and Radar cost about 12,000 and up and an Alesis costs just 800 for the cheapest version.

2. Pyramix, Sadie, ProTools, Soundscape. These all use the same Motorola chip set, but each has its own software. Prices start around 5,000 for a complete Soundscape system and Pyramix can cost over 50,000

3. Software only systems abound in the hundreds and you can use just about anything, though the very good Logic works only on Apple (because Apple bought it!) but there many good packages that cost almost nothing. Logic costs about 1,000.

We are a commercial studio and have somthing in every one of the three sections. In section one we have a large Radar 48 track system that covers all our tracking needs. In section two we have Soundscape, ProTools HD3, and ProTools Light. In section three we have Audition, CuBase, Nuendo and a host of others that I canot remember. (We also have a reel-to-reel, the way God intended.)

Each system has its strengths and weaknesses. Although the London Post Production scene is pretty much ProTools or Pyramix, 60% of all films made in Scotland are done on Soundscape. Soundscape is very fast for audio editing, but is only now having some MIDI tracking added to the software. Logic is massive for MIDI, but I would be reluctant to use it for audio. Radar is the only game in town for audio tracking, but is slow for editing, so we end up exporting things to either ProTools or Soundscape just for the cuts and then bringing them back in again to Radar for the mix.

The choice of platform is largely driven by what the engineer is used to and happy with.

What you say about the Aberdeen scene is true for the whole of Scotland. Apart from one or two studios that belong to friends, I cannot comment on the studio scene and I have never been into an Aberdeen studio. Glasgow has a bit of a media industry (if industry is not too grand a word for it) serving the few films and the BBC. Aberdeen should have something going on around Gampian TV, though my guess is that these are just guys with an HD3 rig somewhere and not a full-blown studio.

You cannot blame Aberdeen or the studio owners for the lack of facilities. Putting up a propper music studio is numbingly expensive (think 500,000 minimum!) and unless you can attract an international cientele, commercial failure is guaranteed.

Three quarters - no, even more - of our work comes from outwith Scotland. Germany, Iceland, New-York and of course London, they all come here, but hardly anyone from Scotland.

That are many reasons for this: Firstly the Scottish music scene is poor. There are very few venues large enough and I cannot think of a single club that holds more than 500 people. That means that you will only ever get small acts.

Then all the good acts leave for London or New York. Here you are lucky to get MU rates for a gig.

Then, to put it very bluntly, the music industry in Europe is fucked. There are all kinds of theories behind this and I have my own theory:

The standard of music made in the UK is crap because the standard of musical education has fallen to rock bottom. I am 55 years old, so I wnt to school in the 50's and 60's and back then everybody had to learn to read music and play an instrument. Almost every second home, rich or poor, had a piano, organ or harmonium in the front room, so there was a real knowledge of music in the general population. Even if you did not particularly aim for a musical career, you got music lessons and mother used to show the kids how to pick out a bit of Beethoven or Mozart on the living room piano.

Also everybody sang hymns everyday at school and went to church and Sunday school on Sunday. Making music was something everybody did from a very, very early age.

Now nobody goes to church (I can't blame them!) and music is just noise on MTV. Add to that the total rubbish that is shown on TV like 'The X Factor' which permiates the myth that even untalanted and ugly people can make it in the music business and the result is that nobody sees the need to learn an instrument or read music.

America is different. They still go to church and they still learn music at school. That is why there are so many great new bands coming out of the US, but almost nothing from Europe. If you learn to sing harmonies in church, then singing harmonies on stage is easy. If you learn to play organ in church, then rocking on a B3 is easy. If you have to practice scales to a metronome at school, then keeping time in a band comes as second nature.

And talking about a great new band from the US and rocking on a B3, have a listen to this lot (mp3 players to the ready)

http://www.wdr.de/cgi-bin/mkram?rtsp://ras01.wdr.de/rockpalast/govt_mule/govt_mule.rm

Cheers

www.the-byre.com

P.S. I forgot to mention, that band is a new band called Government Mule. Best thing I've seen and heard in years!

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that's very interesting what you say about musical education degrading through the generations, i think you may (at least in part) be onto something. i'm not so sure it has the effect you claim as i think there is great stuff coming from europe, uk and continent, but it's an interesting point none the less.

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I hasten to add that I was generalising and of course there are corners of the US where the music education is crap and there are corners of Europe where the musical education is brilliant.

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I would chose Soundscape Every time. I have been using it for years and NEVER had a problem with it. and Imo It is the best sounding (converters). Plus I can use it with my eyes closed ;)

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We charge 100 extra a day for ProTools HD3 with engineer. Are you sure you really need it?

There seems to be a great deal of mis-information here about ProTools.

There are three types of recording and editing packages:

1. Black box

2. Harware based' date=' but using dedicated software on PC or Mac

3. Software only on PC or Mac

The main platforms in all these are as follows:

1. Fairlight, Radar, Tascam, Mackie, Alisis. Fairlight and Radar cost about 12,000 and up and an Alesis costs just 800 for the cheapest version.

2. Pyramix, Sadie, ProTools, Soundscape. These all use the same Motorola chip set, but each has its own software. Prices start around 5,000 for a complete Soundscape system and Pyramix can cost over 50,000

3. Software only systems abound in the hundreds and you can use just about anything, though the very good Logic works only on Apple (because Apple bought it!) but there many good packages that cost almost nothing. Logic costs about 1,000.

We are a commercial studio and have somthing in every one of the three sections. In section one we have a large Radar 48 track system that covers all our tracking needs. In section two we have Soundscape, ProTools HD3, and ProTools Light. In section three we have Audition, CuBase, Nuendo and a host of others that I canot remember. (We also have a reel-to-reel, the way God intended.)

Each system has its strengths and weaknesses. Although the London Post Production scene is pretty much ProTools or Pyramix, 60% of all films made in Scotland are done on Soundscape. Soundscape is very fast for audio editing, but is only now having some MIDI tracking added to the software. Logic is massive for MIDI, but I would be reluctant to use it for audio. Radar is the only game in town for audio tracking, but is slow for editing, so we end up exporting things to either ProTools or Soundscape just for the cuts and then bringing them back in again to Radar for the mix.

The choice of platform is largely driven by what the engineer is used to and happy with.

What you say about the Aberdeen scene is true for the whole of Scotland. Apart from one or two studios that belong to friends, I cannot comment on the studio scene and I have never been into an Aberdeen studio. Glasgow has a bit of a media industry (if industry is not too grand a word for it) serving the few films and the BBC. Aberdeen should have something going on around Gampian TV, though my guess is that these are just guys with an HD3 rig somewhere and not a full-blown studio.

You cannot blame Aberdeen or the studio owners for the lack of facilities. Putting up a propper music studio is numbingly expensive (think 500,000 minimum!) and unless you can attract an international cientele, commercial failure is guaranteed.

Three quarters - no, even more - of our work comes from outwith Scotland. Germany, Iceland, New-York and of course London, they all come here, but hardly anyone from Scotland.

That are many reasons for this: Firstly the Scottish music scene is poor. There are very few venues large enough and I cannot think of a single club that holds more than 500 people. That means that you will only ever get small acts.

Then all the good acts leave for London or New York. Here you are lucky to get MU rates for a gig.

Then, to put it very bluntly, the music industry in Europe is fucked. There are all kinds of theories behind this and I have my own theory:

The standard of music made in the UK is crap because the standard of musical education has fallen to rock bottom. I am 55 years old, so I wnt to school in the 50's and 60's and back then everybody had to learn to read music and play an instrument. Almost every second home, rich or poor, had a piano, organ or harmonium in the front room, so there was a real knowledge of music in the general population. Even if you did not particularly aim for a musical career, you got music lessons and mother used to show the kids how to pick out a bit of Beethoven or Mozart on the living room piano.

Also everybody sang hymns everyday at school and went to church and Sunday school on Sunday. Making music was something everybody did from a very, very early age.

Now nobody goes to church (I can't blame them!) and music is just noise on MTV. Add to that the total rubbish that is shown on TV like 'The X Factor' which permiates the myth that even untalanted and ugly people can make it in the music business and the result is that nobody sees the need to learn an instrument or read music.

America is different. They still go to church and they still learn music at school. That is why there are so many great new bands coming out of the US, but almost nothing from Europe. If you learn to sing harmonies in church, then singing harmonies on stage is easy. If you learn to play organ in church, then rocking on a B3 is easy. If you have to practice scales to a metronome at school, then keeping time in a band comes as second nature.

And talking about a great new band from the US and rocking on a B3, have a listen to this lot (mp3 players to the ready)

[url']http://www.wdr.de/cgi-bin/mkram?rtsp://ras01.wdr.de/rockpalast/govt_mule/govt_mule.rm

Cheers

www.the-byre.com

P.S. I forgot to mention, that band is a new band called Government Mule. Best thing I've seen and heard in years!

Best Post I've read in a long time here.!!

I'd love to get my hands on Soundscape, Pyramix or ProTools, just to get the experience of using them. Isn't Pyramix usually used in Film Post at the moment?

Most of my Recording work was done back when DA88's were brand new on the market, and we had 3 racked up together, topping and tailing using SAW. Nowadays, I'm more likely to be using Cubase, or Nuendo, but I have to say though, I am still a fan of Hardware, especially with the ease of use of machines like the Alesis HDR24. Been mixing a few tracks in the Foyer this week as a favour, and it's a fantastic little piece of kit.

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We charge 100 extra a day for ProTools HD3 with engineer. Are you sure you really need it?

There seems to be a great deal of mis-information here about ProTools.

There are three types of recording and editing packages:

1. Black box

2. Harware based' date=' but using dedicated software on PC or Mac

3. Software only on PC or Mac

The main platforms in all these are as follows:

1. Fairlight, Radar, Tascam, Mackie, Alisis. Fairlight and Radar cost about 12,000 and up and an Alesis costs just 800 for the cheapest version.

2. Pyramix, Sadie, ProTools, Soundscape. These all use the same Motorola chip set, but each has its own software. Prices start around 5,000 for a complete Soundscape system and Pyramix can cost over 50,000

3. Software only systems abound in the hundreds and you can use just about anything, though the very good Logic works only on Apple (because Apple bought it!) but there many good packages that cost almost nothing. Logic costs about 1,000.

We are a commercial studio and have somthing in every one of the three sections. In section one we have a large Radar 48 track system that covers all our tracking needs. In section two we have Soundscape, ProTools HD3, and ProTools Light. In section three we have Audition, CuBase, Nuendo and a host of others that I canot remember. (We also have a reel-to-reel, the way God intended.)

Each system has its strengths and weaknesses. Although the London Post Production scene is pretty much ProTools or Pyramix, 60% of all films made in Scotland are done on Soundscape. Soundscape is very fast for audio editing, but is only now having some MIDI tracking added to the software. Logic is massive for MIDI, but I would be reluctant to use it for audio. Radar is the only game in town for audio tracking, but is slow for editing, so we end up exporting things to either ProTools or Soundscape just for the cuts and then bringing them back in again to Radar for the mix.

The choice of platform is largely driven by what the engineer is used to and happy with.

What you say about the Aberdeen scene is true for the whole of Scotland. Apart from one or two studios that belong to friends, I cannot comment on the studio scene and I have never been into an Aberdeen studio. Glasgow has a bit of a media industry (if industry is not too grand a word for it) serving the few films and the BBC. Aberdeen should have something going on around Gampian TV, though my guess is that these are just guys with an HD3 rig somewhere and not a full-blown studio.

You cannot blame Aberdeen or the studio owners for the lack of facilities. Putting up a propper music studio is numbingly expensive (think 500,000 minimum!) and unless you can attract an international cientele, commercial failure is guaranteed.

Three quarters - no, even more - of our work comes from outwith Scotland. Germany, Iceland, New-York and of course London, they all come here, but hardly anyone from Scotland.

That are many reasons for this: Firstly the Scottish music scene is poor. There are very few venues large enough and I cannot think of a single club that holds more than 500 people. That means that you will only ever get small acts.

Then all the good acts leave for London or New York. Here you are lucky to get MU rates for a gig.

Then, to put it very bluntly, the music industry in Europe is fucked. There are all kinds of theories behind this and I have my own theory:

The standard of music made in the UK is crap because the standard of musical education has fallen to rock bottom. I am 55 years old, so I wnt to school in the 50's and 60's and back then everybody had to learn to read music and play an instrument. Almost every second home, rich or poor, had a piano, organ or harmonium in the front room, so there was a real knowledge of music in the general population. Even if you did not particularly aim for a musical career, you got music lessons and mother used to show the kids how to pick out a bit of Beethoven or Mozart on the living room piano.

Also everybody sang hymns everyday at school and went to church and Sunday school on Sunday. Making music was something everybody did from a very, very early age.

Now nobody goes to church (I can't blame them!) and music is just noise on MTV. Add to that the total rubbish that is shown on TV like 'The X Factor' which permiates the myth that even untalanted and ugly people can make it in the music business and the result is that nobody sees the need to learn an instrument or read music.

America is different. They still go to church and they still learn music at school. That is why there are so many great new bands coming out of the US, but almost nothing from Europe. If you learn to sing harmonies in church, then singing harmonies on stage is easy. If you learn to play organ in church, then rocking on a B3 is easy. If you have to practice scales to a metronome at school, then keeping time in a band comes as second nature.

And talking about a great new band from the US and rocking on a B3, have a listen to this lot (mp3 players to the ready)

[url']http://www.wdr.de/cgi-bin/mkram?rtsp://ras01.wdr.de/rockpalast/govt_mule/govt_mule.rm

Cheers

www.the-byre.com

P.S. I forgot to mention, that band is a new band called Government Mule. Best thing I've seen and heard in years!

Anyone reading this please take it with a huge pinch of salt. I cant go over his points I would be here for ever but be assured that most of what is written is complete rubbish.

And oh my god. The reek of negativity is very strong.

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Anyone reading this please take it with a huge pinch of salt. I cant go over his points I would be here for ever but be assured that most of what is written is complete rubbish.

And oh my god. The reek of negativity is very strong.

CAC Have you ever used ProTools In a PRO session? It is very Unreliable and Its converters sound crap, it is the standard but that is due to marketing and not the quality of the platform. It has lots of bells and whistles which help it crash very often. but if thats what you want and not a Solid great sounding system then the choice is yours. There is better out there...

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Sorry but I disagree with you. The only bad convertor Digidesign sold was the 888/24. The HD 192 convertor is an excellent convertor which has been proved many times. There has been a multitude of Shootouts between the Digi192 and convertors of the same price range and I have yet to see one person say the Digi 192 is a crap convertor. When convertors get to that level you would need to have amazingly golden ears to hear any difference between the 192 and an apogee. In fact the general consensus is that the 192 sounds very good and cant be faulted at its price range.

As for reliability. You must be joking? PTs is probably the most reliable DAW out there. I dont know about LE systems or the M powered range but I have had no problems ever with PTs. Suer its crashed on me but definitely nothing on the scale of Say Logic. BTW, usinf Logic as front end for PTs is a recipe for disaster.

Bottom line is that there are far more commercial releases which are recorded on Pro Tools than any other format/daw. If its good enough for major acts its good enough for me.

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ok, If you really think PT is reliable :D:D not on any system I have ever used (that is loads) I cant risk studio time with it. I use systems that are solid and I dont have to worry about backing up every 5 mins. as for the converters. for the price there is much better. you will get the same for about half the price without the PT badge.

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ok' date=' If you really think PT is reliable :D:D not on any system I have ever used (that is loads) I cant risk studio time with it. I use systems that are solid and I dont have to worry about backing up every 5 mins. as for the converters. for the price there is much better. you will get the same for about half the price without the PT badge.[/quote']

What Pro Tools systems have you used? And what system do you use now that you consider is much more stable than PTs.

Which convertors is better than a Digi 192 at its price range. Have you actually done a shoot out comparing a Digi 192 Vs your better convertor?

Im interested to hear

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The Music Producer's Guild did a format shoot-out between Nuendo (Apogee ADDA), Radar, ProTools and a Studer A800 16-track.

To view the results, you will need QuickTime version 7.

http://www.recordproduction.com/mpg-event-june05-video.html

It is a bit ad-hoc and the Studer would not have been my machine of choice. Before we all start arguing the toss over which format is best, this was just one test with just a few pieces of music and there should be more tests to follow. Someone who was there told me that Nuendo was via Apogee converters as the video does not seem to mention this.

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Wow thats a nice studio. Do I see a Redd console in there aswell? The comparisons aren't really worth listening to in quick time format though!

Interestingly enough, while most people went for Radar (as I suspected, merely through reading about it) no two people had identical opinions! Which begs the question, whose to say which converters or medium is better, is it purely personal preference?

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Wow thats a nice studio. Do I see a Redd console in there aswell? The comparisons aren't really worth listening to in quick time format though!

Interestingly enough' date=' while most people went for Radar (as I suspected, merely through reading about it) no two people had identical opinions! Which begs the question, whose to say which converters or medium is better, is it purely personal preference?[/quote']

The main desk is an 88R and I think (?) the desk at the side is an older API. The studio is owned by Mark Knopfler and the whole complex cost about 8m with land and building.

As for which system sounds better, well, you said it!

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